I bought glasses Laxman are compatible with the Procyon and is simply wonderful. I recommend it to all those who have Procyon.
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I bought glasses Laxman are compatible with the Procyon and is simply wonderful. I recommend it to all those who have Procyon.
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Originally Posted by Admin
All I can say for compatibility is that everything seems to work perfectly! (Rev1 and Rev2 ONLY!)
I bought the glasses at laxman Neurotronics in germany.
I was surprised to learn that the Laxman glasses are compatible with the Procyon--same connector, same RGB mapping! We don't have specs for the Laxman goggles, but I do have a laxman and confirm that their goggles work with my Procyon.
We actually have a preproduction prototype of eyes-open glasses in our shop--not as elegant looking as the Laxman, but the illumination is even across the surface, unlike the Laxman, which has 'hot spots' where the LEDs illuminate the edge-lit display. I remember telling Markus Klose that I thought edge-lighting was worth pursuing back in 2003, and he liked the idea so much that he patented it in Europe...
-Robert
Interesting stuff - guessing you mean you have the open eye prototype in your workshop and not the online store for sale
Thanks for the info
what is the differenc, betewn a session with closed eyes and opened?
The differences are in color and effects that are increased tenfold!
I see a lot more effects and colors are beautiful and pr?cises. The Procyon sessions are fantastic with these Laxman googles!
But this is my personal experience, everyone is different.
If others have tried to put your comments!
There's no doubt that the Laxman goggles make a great team with the Procyon.
The biggest thing with full-colour open-eye is, well, it's the colours. The Procyon with standard glasses does an astonishing job of giving a full colour experience through closed eyelids, but to get a true colour experience, that red filter just has to be lifted.
Apart from asymmetrical stimulation with the very few glasses that provide split visual field illumination, I would say open-eye is really just for fun and experimentation. In terms of raw effectiveness, I have found eyes-closed consistently on top. I find it quite tiring keeping my eyes open through most sessions, so I tend to only use open-eye for relatively short sessions.
There's a post on my blog that offers a very simple and bodgy way to experience open-eye effects with standard Procyon (or other) glasses... http://craigtavs.wordpress.com/2009/...-extravaganza/
Cheers,
Craig
I would add that using the laxman googles eyes open with music of your choice and a session like the 45 is a great experience!
And I can easily keep my eyes open for 30 minutes.
Regarding AudioStrobe of relaxation is difficult to keep your eyes open because I became sleepy. At that time I close my eyes and I get the same effect as the standard glasses.
I like having the choice between the two methods eyes open or closed and I am very satisfied with the Procyon and glasses laxman two excellent products!
I've experimented with open eye visuals using both halved ping pong balls and white mylar behind the Procyon glasses.
I find at slower frequencies the colours are more vivid and of course blue /purple effects are much superior to eyes closed. I find however that the visual effects are much more spurius , less structured and detailed ( thats me anyway ) and I find it very hard to keep my eyes open if it is an eveneing session. At least for relaxation, closing your eyes is the most effective thing that you can do, so there is a contradiction there if you have to try to keep your eyes open.
I would love to have a comfortable commercial pair of open eye glasses , but I think I would only be using them for 20% of my AVS time.
Mark
I've had my Laxman goggles for a few weeks now so I thought I'd share my impressions of them so far with my Procyon (by the way, I don't own the Laxman L&S unit).
I bought the Laxman RGB goggles from our friends at the AudioStrobe web shop. They cost me 79euros plus 16 euros shiping to Australia (95e total). They took about 6 days to get here. Not too bad for German registered air mail to Australia.
They were packed very well and arrived safe and sound. I was a little disappointed that they did not include a case and the sleep-mask (overlay?) though.
I'm not quite sure what the sleep-mask is, but I guess it is just an external light-blocker that goes over the outside of the goggles. The white silicon goggle outsides do allow a little bit of external light to get in. A bit of black electrical tape should do the same thing so no big deal.
The quality of these RGB Goggles is very high, like most German stuff. They sort of look like super-duper swim goggles with lots of high quality silicon rubber everywhere.
The silicon nose bridge is nice and flexible but I hear (from Craig) you should not try to bend these too much or you may damage the internal wiring. Too bad since it looks like you could/should bend them in halve for storage. Given the cost of these RGB goggles I'll be keeping mine extended for sure!
While these a very good quality googles, they do come with a price (not just $'s). They are very heavy! The Procyon RGB glasses weigh ~40g (1.4 oz) and the Laxman goggles weigh ~110g (3.9 oz), or almost 3 times heavier.
As a longtime mindplace user (+8 years) I find these Laxman goggles very heavy and a bit uncomfortable. I am slowly getting used to the extra weight, but I cannot help thinking that they should be able to make the Laxman goggles a lot lighter (and maybe less expensive).
Performance-wise, there is no contest. In my opinion the Laxman goggles perform better with the in-built Procyon sessions than the stock Procyon RGB glasses, whether you are using them close-eyed or open-eyed (eg. Procyon glasses with diffusers).
The colour quality (esp openned-eyed) of the Laxman goggles has to be seen to be believed. Laxman colours are just that much better/truer than the Procyon glasses in my opinion. Laxman open-eyed patterns are also more defined, although the closed-eyed patterns of the Procyon is still very good.
Anyway, that's the way I 'see' it!
Cheers,
TomC
Hi,
I have glasses Laxman for about 6 months, and I had the same problem as Craigt, color blue on the left does not work! Even with a great deal of delicacy. This may be a design problem. I'll replace them soon.
Yikes, that's a bit of a worry Mate! I thought that Craig's problem was caused by bending the nose-bridge too much, but I could be wrong.
I wonder if the problem might be due to the Procyon driving the Laxman goggles at higher voltages than they were designed for. Although I cannot seem to find exact specs on Laxman voltages, I see that the unit uses Lithium Ion batteries. If it is like most of my MP3 palyers, it is a single 3.7 volt cell (actually 4.1 volt fully charged). The Procyon uses 3xAA alkaline battery (~4.5-4.8 volts).
This difference in battery source may have little to do with the final voltages that report to the glasses/goggles themselves. I really don't know.
I have heard (from Craig) that while the Laxman goggles work with the Procyon, the Procyon glasses do not work with the Laxman unit. Maybe the Laxman unit output voltages are not high enough to drive the Procyon glasses. Don't know if it's related, but I generally need to crank my mp3 player volume up to max in order to drive any of my Mindplace glasses with AudioStrobe. Maybe the Laxman unit also needs to have it's volume cranked up as well in order to drive the Procyon glasses?
In any case, I'll keep an eye on mine and if I have any problems I will send them back to the AudioStrobe shop, since they are advertised as working well with the Procyon.
Best cheers,
TomC
Hi all,
The Laxman goggles have a flexible PC linking the surface-mount style LEDs which are permanently attached to the edge of a diffuse plastic lens which is molded in place. Bending the bridge causes the flexible PC to detach, resulting in the loss of one or more colours on the left hand side. New goggles are now shipping with a little card clipped onto the bridge showing "don't bend" with the words "sensitive electronics inside".
The Laxman uses two standard, non-rechargeable AA batteries - 3V. That's not the issue with driving Procyon glasses - MindPlace bicolour glasses, the same specifications, work perfectly with the L&S Synergizer, which is also 2x AA cells. I haven't got around to checking the Procyon/Laxman wiring, but it's on my to-do list. I suspect that the polarity protection diodes in the MP glasses will have something to do with it.
Cheers,
Craig
Thanks for clearing that up Craig. I no bendy them for sure!
Cheers,
TomC
Lest the problem sound worse than it is, the flexible PC flexes quite nicely in the direction required to wrap around the face - it's up/down, like if one side is grabbed and pulled upwards to remove goggles, that causes fatal stress. I would say that using two hands to put them on and take them off should circumvent any problems.
Cheers,
Craig
I would like to clarify that when I received the glasses there was a warning not to bend the glasses, I paid particular attention to never fold and I am the only user! And after several months of use the color blue on the left does not work!
I think the glasses laxman have a manufacturing defect! I never had a problem with my other glasses Procyon and Proteus and I use them regularly for 2 years.
I repaired my glasses laxman and when I have received I will keep you informed about the durability of these glasses
Jim,
Go to;
http://www.audiostrobe.com/websiteNew/shopMp3/index.php
When one of the headers shows the Laxman unit, click on it. Go to the bottom of that window, just above the total price, and you will see the goggles only option highlighted. Click on it and it will take you to the goggles only window.
Cheers,
TomC
Thanks for the update. I bought some Laxman goggles to use with my Procyon too...
I was just checking out the blue in the left goggle on mine and it's very weak coverage and seems about 30% of the blue brightness of the right goggle - check out the image I posted below as it's quite obvious
Is this the same issue when you say it isn't working right for you guys? - I have never stressed the nose bridge section
if you could put your procyon on full brightness at the start of session 8 with laxman goggles facing up on a table and and report back if you think blues are balanced in the left / right goggles in the first 20 seconds or so.
Mine certainly isn't and I will have to get mine replaced as I'm using the standard procyon ganzframes at the moment as I wasn't getting as good results with the Laxman and that unbalanced blue on the left is probably why! so thanks for the heads up.
Wonder where you send them back for warranty from the United Kingdom
Thanks
Craig
Greetings, all--
We do have a Laxman in our shop, and it seems to work fine with our Procyon 'frames. Differences could occur as battery voltage drops--blue LEDs tend to require higher voltage to operate than other colors, typically in the 3.2-3.5 volt range.
-Robert Austin
Brand new energizers batteries in and the normal ganzframes are fine. Definitely the Laxman glasses at fault I think
When the color blue has ceased to function on the left side, I bent slightly glasses and blue worked again. In my experience the problem is of physical origin.
There is a weakness in the wire in the center of the glasses. I do not think that is the level of voltage.
Hi, as an owner of both Procyon and Laxman goggles, decided to try this test as well - so far i've found myself using mostly the Ganzframes because i prefer the sessions with eyes closed, so Laxmans were not getting much use yet, i don't think i bent them in half also.
I've tried session 8 at full brightness with Laxman goggles and left side has weaker coverage of blue indeed, tried it again with goggles on, and it was tanglible that way too. I was using AC USB adapter instead of batteries, so there should be sufficient power. So, it seems this can be a common problem.
Replacement glasses fixed it for me, definitely had some faulty ones before.
Much more impressed now. Will try a few sessions with the Ganzframes and these ones too :)
I researched the available googles and found the Laxman's closest to what I had in an older pair (zytek?). Both allow open eye and generally feel great, however I too had problems soon after purchase in that the googles developed the same loss of blue intermitantly and then finally all the time. I contacted the Neutronics and they contacted the mfg who is sending a new pair which is great.
Now I'm wondering if this is a problem that needs to be addressed by the mfg because at the price of the system I'd hate to think I'll have the same problem again. And yes, I took care of them, did't bend them and generally made sure not to fold them. Hate to say it, I'm worried.
While I have not had any problems with my laxman googles, I don't personally like them. I find them too heavy and uncomfortable.
The Procyon glasses are a lot more comfortrable and are very good in my opinion.
Cheers,
TomC
Thanks for your opinion. Is it possible to buy the Procyon glasses separately? I have another AVS machine, Proteus. I believe there is an inherent design flaw with a google system that has weakness across the nose bridge housing of right eye/left eye wiring if the same google is built to be held on my stretch straps. Seems like its asking for problems if not properly secure.
That old pair of googles I had 15 or so year ago folded in half and about the size of a good pair of ski googles (of that time). They failed at the nose bridge also.
But still years later I love the cool blues and greens, hope they help with SAD but just enjoy the relaxation also.
Yes! I have all manner of MindPlace glasses, some very successfully dismantled and fitted into other viewing configurations. If you have the Proteus, the Procyon glasses won't fit, but a Procyon can use Proteus glasses with an adapter. The MindPlace glasses are almost indestructible (they might break if you sit on them). The Procyon glasses do, of course, work with the Laxman, which is where, I believe this thread started :)
Cheers,
Craig
Hi All,
I am planning to buy Procyon. But found Laxman glasses will not work with Rev.3. Is there any solution or alternative.Please share.
Thanks
Raj
Thanks Andy. When I am going to place order, What other accessories I need. Do you carry TRRS connector?
You shouldn't need any other accessories, unless you're interested in some of the Audiostrobe titles. Have a look at the MindPlace homepage for details.
We do not sell the 3.5mm TRRS connectors, but there's several places to get them. Any electronic parts store should have them. Here's an online place, for example.
You could also take a ready built cable and cut it up and splice it into the Laxman cable.
Do I need a Procyon Rev 3 splitter cable?
No. That's for splitting the lightframe signal so that 2 lightframes can be used at once from the same console.
Hi all..
New to all this and have been researching a lot.. I am really leaning towards the Procyon as I see the support here is great and there seems to be a large user community for the Procyon.... But I wanted to find out what is the advantage, benefit, reasons for adding the Laxman glasses to the Procyon??? Is open Eye glasses really worth the $$$$$$ Or are there better add-on's I should consider getting instead???
Also being totally new to all this, is there like a good Beginners post I can read explaining all the Options and things I can do with the Procyon???
Thanks!
I don't have the Laxman glasses but I have hacked together eye open glasses for the MindPlace machines.. On the relatively simple level you can simply cut out thick gauge typing paper and place it over the leds. Works pretty well in a dark room. The eyes open experience on the Procyon is pretty amazing as many of the colors that get filtered by the eyelids like subtle blues come through really well. It does tire your eyes after a bit, so it is best to mix sessions.
From my understanding that would be the benefit of the Laxman but not much else. I am biased though in the interest of disclosure.
The major benefits of the Procyon are its full color engine that has many options to control the LEDs. Things like solid fields that shimmer (Ganzfeld), smooth color ramping and transitions, exacting control over the color mixture, different color waveforms for smooth changes instead of just on or off, very high frequency settings for gamma experimentation, binaural and pulse sound waves, digital sound, ability to choose between different 2 color configurations for AudioStrobe, you are able to convert Proteus sessions to the Procyon, the Ganzframe glasses are the best in the industry, free software editor, USB for computer and power and so on and so on... For $269.
Your research should tell you that this is best deal going. You could buy a Procyon, Proteus, and ThoughtStream and AudioStrobe titles and extra Ganzframe glasses for the cost of the Laxman and far surpass your enjoyment and features...
IMHO.