Deep Meditation and Lucid Dreaming

[Maverick]

Researching very deep meditative states, it seemed that most shamans (fewer gurus, but there were some of those, too) used some sort of hallucinogen to achieve higher levels of conciousness, which eventually led to me to Carlos Castaneda. After reading Carlos Castaneda's Art of Dreaming, I started to follow the path of lucid dreaming through the years and how it has developed as a science. I've managed to achieve lower-level lucid dreaming (the first gate, as Don Castaneda would call it), but I was wondering if anyone had done clinical research into lucid dreaming, looking for scientific validation. Evidently, they have. A lot. That's when I first found out about the varying frequencies of the mind (lucid dreaming occurs at a different frequency than standard dreaming, and different parts of the brain are activated)...and, through a process filled with curiosity, I ended up here.

I'd be happy to talk to you about my spiritual journey, what I believe, etc, here or in PM. I'm always open to new ideas and love to share my own.

[Marisa]

Hi Maverick,

I thought this would be a good place to continue our conversation regarding lucid dreaming, Castenada etc.

[Marisa]

Researching very deep meditative states, it seemed that most shamans (fewer gurus, but there were some of those, too) used some sort of hallucinogen to achieve higher levels of consciousness, which eventually led to me to Carlos Castaneda.

They didn't have the knowledge or technology we now have regarding inducing ASC (Altered States of Consciousness). The question is - are they really "higher" levels of consciousness or just different levels of consciousness. When an ASC is induced, the mind is very suggestible and susceptible to hallucination. This makes it more of an inner journey as what you see is occurring from inside your mind rather than from the outside world. Still, it is an interesting and worthwhile journey.

After reading Carlos Castaneda's Art of Dreaming, I started to follow the path of lucid dreaming through the years and how it has developed as a science. I've managed to achieve lower-level lucid dreaming (the first gate, as Don Castaneda would call it), but I was wondering if anyone had done clinical research into lucid dreaming, looking for scientific validation. Evidently, they have. A lot.

I've read that book as well and enjoyed it! Where have you seen research on lucid dreaming? I'm sure others interested in the subject would love to check out those sites as well.

That's when I first found out about the varying frequencies of the mind (lucid dreaming occurs at a different frequency than standard dreaming, and different parts of the brain are activated)...and, through a process filled with curiosity, I ended up here.

Please tell me more. What frequency did they measure standard dreaming at and which one did they measure lucid dreaming? I would assume that the frequencies involving lucid dreaming would involve a higher level of theta or even low alpha (because the brain would be more awake but still in a trance like state).

I'd be happy to talk to you about my spiritual journey, what I believe, etc, here or in PM. I'm always open to new ideas and love to share my own.

How would you define spirituality?

I'd like to read about your spiritual journey. You can tell me about here if you like.

I offered PM in case it was something you didn't want to share with the world. Some people are more private about such things, though this is a safe place here because you will be treated with respect regardless of what you beliefs are and who agrees or disagrees with them.

M.

[sheltech]

I used to do a lot of drugs and meditate (not necessarily at the same time) but I went completely clean and sober in 1989 , and "kicked that guru out of town " (lyrics from a Bill Nelson song) around 1992 when I got technologies from some ET walk-ins, and then forged on without external authority or guidance , with my wife . Long story short, we do our own thing , however it happens at any given time. For me, my most intense experiences have been in a state of hyper-lucid dreaming, where just knowing I'm dreaming is the beginning stage , from where things shift dramatically, electrifyingly, and ecstatically , into realms and energies that I have a hard time describing , because they're so different from ordinary experience, and from ordinary dream experience, and also different from meditation experiences.

This new book by Dr. Eben Alexander ('Proof of Heaven') , the neurosurgeon who has a week-long NDE that's utterly out of this world, does a great job describing his experience, and he got to go deeper into it, for longer, than my hyperdreamer sequences. The phenomenon is universal though, the way I see it , and a few dozen , or a hundred, brief glimpses and visits to these higher/other energy realms have done as much for me as anything , maybe even as much as everything else put together . I suspect that what I went through when I had severe delerium tremens, when I abruptly, accidentally, quit drinking in 1988, was a derivative of the 'conventional' Near Death Experience . It was a very real kind of death of the old me , and the beginning of this new me, and I believe it opened up some of the same kinds of pathways that are opened up to people who have NDE's .

Anyway, it would take too long to try and explain a lot about these experiences, and I don't even know how connected they are to lucid dreaming, but if there's a way to help induce these experiences with technology, I'm interested , and that's why I used my old Voyager, and why I got the Procyon . Drugs are no longer an option, and they are not going to do what I want spiritually; that's a fantasy I had to give up years ago . It's taken a long time to understand that they are not needed , that all is already here , and now , it's only a matter of perspective . Meditation works in a different way, but honestly, I don't slow down enough to take full advantage of it .It's usually just lay down with the blinkys on and off to dreamland in a few minutes, twice a day . I don't question it any more ; I do what works for me, without a lot of self-judgement about whether I'm doing things 'right' according to any external models or ideals .

The dreams are MY gateway to other realms , not like astral realms where I go from place to place , but more like being overwhelmed by or flying through seas of electric-orgasmic energy , usually filled with sights and sounds that are ...well, some of these blinky -glasses visions are a decent analogy , if you throw in "a host of angels, and they were all singing different songs, and it sounded like a lot of lawnmowers, mowing down my lawn" (Laurie Anderson ).

It's been a year or so since I had one like that... the only different sort of dream I had since getting my Procyon was one where I could see with my eyes closed , and I was telling the President about it. Oh, there were those four huge lizards last night ....so I looked up lizards in Native American symbology . They are the totem of dreamers ; imagine that ! .

More when it happens....

Dar

[jollyG]

I personally feel that deep meditation and lucid dreaming are two sides of the same coin. I see it as a matter of semantics in brain chemistry, although the ability to control the frequencies in your own brain does seem problematic at best. I've thought about purchasing a Procyon, but my cynical nature of other individuals ego's prevents me. How do I know that they aren't just selling me a pair of glasses with flashy lights? Maybe I'm paranoid, but my experiences thus far with esoteric phenomena, such as lucid dreaming, astral projection, kundalini attunement, and my existence beyond this physical form have had a profound impact on the awareness I have. After reading the Bhagavad Gita I began to see truths in myself, both (I believe) subjective, and objective. It changed the way I see and experience this world, and the way I see myself.

The highest level of lucidity I've reached really startled me at first because I hadn't realized I was dreaming. I panicked, I was standing in the middle of a desert in my old desert camouflage uniform. I thought "how the hell did I get here? How am I going to get home?" I could feel the air cooling as the sun set, the grainy texture of the sand on a bolder as it desperately clung to the heat it had absorbed throughout the day. I realized I was dreaming. This is too real, I thought. My focus to clear in the center and to blurry around the edges. I felt more alive than in the "waking" world. I could then feel my slumbering body back in my rack (bed), and I realized that my physical body was not truly "me". I was more than a conglomeration of cells, I am an individual connected to a whole. I saw that this "waking" life was the dream and that I could become lucid here as well as in my "sleeping dreams".

I have now realized that I've experienced the same perception, the hyper-focus, as in the lucid dreams that I've had while in deep meditation, or rather directly after meditation using stereo optic images. By altering how my physical perceptions perceive this environment I have found that you can indeed alter how your own brain functions based on the way, and type of stimulus you use to influence it. (I've never taken drugs, except Marijuana in my youth, so I refer to non-chemical influences.)

[Gavin Chester]

I loved those personal accounts from Dar and jollyG. I have had similar experiences that I will no doubt share at the appropriate time. I would commend Michael Raduga to you, who uses the terminology the Phase for describing Out of Body Experiences and Lucid Dreaming. He actually sees genuine Lucid Dreaming as a way to enter 'the phase' which is an OBE. He takes a very scientific approach and judging from his website (rightly or wrongly) does not believe in God so he does not interpret these phenomena with achieving enlightenment or communing with God. The free book that you can download offers techniques for entering the phase and I had success following one of the prescribed methods.

[jollyG]

Thank you Gavin Chester I will definitely look into it!