do we really have a choice ?

[dranzer006]

hi there

i was wondering if we really have a choice and i came up with this

what makes us think ?
biological factors, Thoughts that came from our ancestry. dna,etc
natural human conduction, food,sex and all that stuff
the environment we grew up in

as you may know our thinking pattern is developed on this and non of these things are chosen by us so do we really have a choice ?


Thanks

[neuroasis]

I would say briefly that the very fact that you have the ability to ask these questions demonstrates that you have a choice.

[Marisa]

Sam Harris, a brilliant thinker of our time (and neurologist) says we don't have as much free will as we think: http://www.samharris.org/blog

I'm thinking that "free will" is one of those things that needs to be defined by each person looking at the idea. When I think of Free Will I think of the following:

Due to our biology, some things are driven by our DNA's desire to reproduce and those things underlie some of our behaviors and desires. Living in a society also corrals some of our free will because we have agreed to abide it's laws and ethics. Then there is culture, family and friends and each of these relationships funnel free will even further. This is not necessarily a bad thing as we need "agreements" in order to function peacefully.

A person with the most "free will" would be a psychopath or sociopath whose decisions are not governed by conscience, ethics or the law. The general public, or anyone who comes into contact with such a person usually don't fare well as they get used and abused - mercilessly.

A person's beliefs can impede free will. Mental illness and addiction also hijack free will.

Then there is the distinction between "free will" and "true will". Free will is being free to do as you please regardless of consequences. True Will is pursuing or knowing what it is you truly want on a deeper level, as opposed to a superficial desire.

Those are my thoughts. Good subject!

[brewmasher]

Some say thoughts are governed by a higher power. Thoughts exist in the spiritual word as they do not appear in the physical world unless action is taken to make them manifest. There are things that we simply cannot control, call it God's will, karma, whatever. Being human and observing the great expanse of the Universe, we can't help to feel insignificant in the larger picture. We cannot know even a fraction of how the universe works, so it is best to give in to a higher power and trust that since the universe has existed and has been maintained since the dawn of time, things will continue to do so till the end of time.

[neuroasis]

I like the way the open source software developers have begun to define the word 'free'.. they say 'free' as in 'free beer'

Essentially that means that you have been invited to participate in something (a party if you will), in whatever degree you would like to contribute. You can just show up, you can pitch in your efforts, you can throw your own party at your place.... but inherent in that invitation is the condition that you act responsibly.

Don't claim that you are the source, come to have fun, put your best face forward, be sociable, don't over stay your welcome, don't rain on anyone's parade, don't overindulge...

That pretty much sums it up in my opinion...

I recommend the book Finite and Infinite Games - A Vision of Life as Play and Possibility by James P. Carse. It is a book that I have bought literally dozens of copies and given them away. I continue to read through it over years and years and still get new insights. Very deep and not about 'games' in the way we normally think of them.

Some quotes:
There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing the play.

Carse, James (2011-10-11). Finite and Infinite Games (Kindle Locations 43-45). Simon & Schuster, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

There is no finite game unless the players freely choose to play it. No one can play who is forced to play. It is an invariable principle of all play, finite and infinite, that whoever plays, plays freely. Whoever must play, cannot play.

Carse, James (2011-10-11). Finite and Infinite Games (Kindle Locations 55-57). Simon & Schuster, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

[mctxp]

What others have said to this post is also valid point. Check this free book, see yourself if it helps you out. All thoughts arise due to Human language. No language, no thoughts can arise. If you doubt, observe your own each thought and you will find they are directly related to language you speak, it can be one language or many languages. Our beliefs defines the boundary of choices we make. Free choice or any related terms are ideas of someone.Each human being is unique by experience of individual life, it may apply to you or not. You have to put into practical way to find out. Free choices as I understand, For example, I can reach from Point A to Point B through unlimited ways. In other words, Free will is alternative choices or possibilities. The flexibility of Possibilities/free will is also shaped by laws, rules, cultures, religions, belief system, democracy or not in different countries. As our bodies are complex in arrangement of organs, tissues, cells, same is this world. One is connected to infinite and infinite is connected to one. My answer is also incomplete, it is what I experienced.

http://www.albigen.com/uarelove/most.../contents.aspx

[Accrete]

greetings all... i found this sight a week ago while researching AVS machines and will be ordering a Procyon this month.

I've enjoyed reading through many threads that lead to my decision on the Procyon and feel like i'm with kindred spirits as i've been involved in BWE for over two decades and NLP studies ~ 10 years.

I recently read (the source has escaped me) in a slight twist on the idea of free-will as more/less already in the past due to our mind already acting on a given decision... taking some quantum mechanics into the mix and the nano-seconds laps between having a thought and it arriving in our mind. That is not quite as elegantly stated as the original Author!

End of ramble. Thanks for providing a great forum for the topic of BWE/AVS and NLP.

From the WET! Coast of Oregon, USA
Thom

[CraigT]

It seems to me that each event is the natural outcome of all those that went before. Our body is always acting a significant time before we have sensory confirmation of that action. In each moment we are in temporal freefall. In this period of freefall anything possible can happen, resulting in an outcome radically different to that anticipated when first the act was initiated.

The choice we have is in how we judge the event just passed - was it good or bad, did I handle it well or poorly, should I feel guilt or pride? This judgment establishes the neurochemical environment, the compound memory, that will prevail the next time a similar situation is encountered.

Thus, we have no choice in what specifically happens next, but the way we paint our past will substantially influence future opportunities, which, by virtue of conscious contemplation, we will be better prepared to notice and act upon.

Cheers,
Craig