AVS Technology Guide - V2

[Marisa]

Hi Craig,

I am notorious for overcomplicating things - possibly the only person I know who includes disclaimers in ordinary conversation.

LOL That can sometimes be a useful trait you know.

It's good that you raise color-blindness - that's an angle on the matter I hadn't considered.

Had you never started this conversation, I wouldn't have been looking around for more info and wouldn't have found that.

I will confess that I have had my suspicions that there's a bit of selective research and reporting going on out there. It can bite one on the backside, however, if anyone pays attention and holds you to your last words.

There is also misquoted research out there which makes things even more difficult.

By way of confession/apology, I have been 'gifted' with Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (not the same thing as OCD), characteristics of which are obsession with minutae and 'ownership of truth'. So I am, in fact, a pathological know-it-all. I do try to keep a bit of a lid on it, and to ensure that I have a vague idea of what I'm talking about, but you may well have noticed the trend

Being a stickler for details and perfection can be a useful trait particularly in some occupations. I'm too much of a "it'll do" kind of person and I have to make an effort to pay attention to details. In NLP terms, I'm more of a Global, General type personality. You are more "Specific" Detail oriented. Between the two of us, I think we cover all the basis. lol

So with OCPD, do you have to do a lot of work around anxiety control? Has AVS helped? If so, what type of programs do you use?

You are very generous, and I truly enjoy being part of this community.

Ditto.

M.

[CraigT]

After most of a lifetime of assorted misery (age 4?) , I was first diagnosed with depression, and then bipolar II, six or seven years ago. I wasn't a very good patient and meds, doctors and I didn't get on very well.

Early last year I got the Procyon, etc. and initially focussed on beta/SMR for depression. It wasn't too long before I found that beta made me irritable and anxious, so I concluded that I was no longer depressed, and started spending more time in alpha which almost always settled me down really well. Sometimes when I'd wake up in the early hours in a state of panic, a quick blast of a Night Journey would get me back to sleep before the session even ended.

Mostly, however, I've used alpha and theta to allow me to achieve the state of quiet contemplation where I have been able to review all the aspects of my life and internal processes without getting worked up or disappearing into those horrible loops of negativity. What became evident was that there are reasons why my life was as it was, and that depression and anxiety were a correct and valid response. This led to the diagnosis of OCPD which is only as much of a problem as you allow it to be - now that I know what's going on with me, what the basic cognitive distortions are, I can work around it pretty effectively, dealing with depression or anxiety simply as symptoms if they arise.

Without going into too much gory detail, I am the only child of an overprotective mother, and apparently OCPD is the defensive personality structure that male children in such circumstances often develop. OCPD is an Axis 2 Cluster C disorder (anxious and fearful). Apparently girls under similar childhood circumstances are more likely to develop an Axis 2 Cluster B personality (dramatic, emotional or erratic).

For anyone wondering why they're not getting better being treated for an Axis 1 disorder (mood disorders) I strongly recommend considering the personality disorders. They don't respond well to medication, but, if the vicitm is truly willing, they respond really well to cognitive techniques, either in therapy or self-applied.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder

I still take low dose Prozac. I have no idea whether I need it, but it doesn't bother me, and my family seems to feel more secure while I'm on some sort of medication. I also have a pretty strong history of sundry addiction, with alcohol being my poison of choice. Largely for the peace of mind of my family, but also to provide a bit of a buffer for myself, I take Antabuse, which means that any alcohol would probably put me in hospital - a strong disincentive to drink. Alpha and theta sessions both do a great job of putting impulsive or compulsive thoughts out of mind.

The secondary benefits of BWE, a surprisingly expansive hobby, contact with interesting people through the forums, and being allowed to tell the family, "Leave me alone, I'm doing a session!" have been pretty good too (the family have been very supportive of all my efforts to 'get better' and for that I am truly grateful).

I can say in all honesty that were it not for the Procyon (and Neuroprogrammer) I would still be misdiagnosed and miserable. Mostly things are pretty good now, and I can laugh about my 'quirks'.

Sorry for the novel, but you did ask

Cheers,
Craig

[Marisa]

After most of a lifetime of assorted misery (age 4?) , I was first diagnosed with depression, and then bipolar II, six or seven years ago. I wasn't a very good patient and meds, doctors and I didn't get on very well.

I've got Fibromylgia and I suffered for a long time before I finally got correctly diagnoised. I can totally related to your journey and what it takes to turn things around so that your illness is something you have to deal with, it's not who you are.

Early last year I got the Procyon, etc. and initially focused on beta/SMR for depression. It wasn't too long before I found that beta made me irritable and anxious, so I concluded that I was no longer depressed, and started spending more time in alpha which almost always settled me down really well.

The best thing for depression would be Alpha/SMR. Depression is a funny thing because it often is a symptom of another problem. Anxiety, as you discovered can also go with depression and Beta would exacerbate the state.

Sometimes when I'd wake up in the early hours in a state of panic, a quick blast of a Night Journey would get me back to sleep before the session even ended.

Good thinking on your part! That is exactly what you needed to do.

Mostly, however, I've used alpha and theta to allow me to achieve the state of quiet contemplation where I have been able to review all the aspects of my life and internal processes without getting worked up or disappearing into those horrible loops of negativity. What became evident was that there are reasons why my life was as it was, and that depression and anxiety were a correct and valid response. This led to the diagnosis of OCPD which is only as much of a problem as you allow it to be - now that I know what's going on with me, what the basic cognitive distortions are, I can work around it pretty effectively, dealing with depression or anxiety simply as symptoms if they arise.

I don't know if you realize how big of a mountain you climbed. You are absolutely right and you are an exceptional person to have figured that out and to have taken control of it. One of the features of OCPD is the need to control so here's an example of how you made it work for you instead of against you.

Without going into too much gory detail, I am the only child of an overprotective mother, and apparently OCPD is the defensive personality structure that male children in such circumstances often develop. OCPD is an Axis 2 Cluster C disorder (anxious and fearful). Apparently girls under similar childhood circumstances are more likely to develop an Axis 2 Cluster B personality (dramatic, emotional or erratic).

In your opinion, how do you think your mother being over protective caused you to go toward OCPD? There are a few different paths you could have taken, I'm curious as to how you ended up on this one? I only know the basics of OCPD.

For anyone wondering why they're not getting better being treated for an Axis 1 disorder (mood disorders) I strongly recommend considering the personality disorders. They don't respond well to medication, but, if the victim is truly willing, they respond really well to cognitive techniques, either in therapy or self-applied.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder

Good advice!

I still take low dose Prozac. I have no idea whether I need it, but it doesn't bother me, and my family seems to feel more secure while I'm on some sort of medication. I also have a pretty strong history of sundry addiction, with alcohol being my poison of choice. Largely for the peace of mind of my family, but also to provide a bit of a buffer for myself, I take Antabuse, which means that any alcohol would probably put me in hospital - a strong disincentive to drink. Alpha and theta sessions both do a great job of putting impulsive or compulsive thoughts out of mind.

You likely do have a deficiency in Alpha waves and low serotonin which is why the low dose of SSRIs help and the Alpha sessions. Craving alcohol is an indication of low serotonin and Alpha waves.

The secondary benefits of BWE, a surprisingly expansive hobby, contact with interesting people through the forums, and being allowed to tell the family, "Leave me alone, I'm doing a session!" have been pretty good too (the family have been very supportive of all my efforts to 'get better' and for that I am truly grateful).

This is the first forum that I've been actively involved in and I have found it to be very rewarding. It's also been very motivational as conversations and questions often inspire me to learn more about a subject. It sure is a good way to converse with people who have similar interests.

I can say in all honesty that were it not for the Procyon (and Neuroprogrammer) I would still be misdiagnosed and miserable. Mostly things are pretty good now, and I can laugh about my 'quirks'.

It pleases me to no end when I read a story such as yours. I'm especially impressed about how you decided to take control of your situation and learn how to manage it. It's a very difficult thing for people to do and it takes awesome strength to persevere and do it. I hope others read this and draw inspiration from your journey.

Sorry for the novel, but you did ask

It was worth it!

M.

[Ben Willow]

I sympathize... with those who suffer...

Twenty years ago, after searching for over 15 years to find out what was the matter with me,
and always being told that everything was OK,
I stumbled on the term "sleep apnea" at the local library...
I asked to be checked in a sleep lab & they confirmed my suspicions!
I was diagnosed with Central Sleep Apnea, with Cheyne-Stoke Respiration...
which has as side effects Fibromyalgia & Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
Believe it or not, I felt so relieved to finally find an explanation as to why
"Achy, Groggy & Sleepy" were my 3 close & constant companions for decades !
17 years ago, a reputable specialist in my area, told me that my condition was "chronic, permanent & irreversible" ! and placed me on disability !
I replied instantly that although I respected his professional opinion,
there was no advantage for me to believe that my situation was as such ! Where would I go from there ?
He looked stunned. I refused to take the proposed drug-experiments to see what, if anything would help my "symptoms",
and told him that I preferred to believe that I would find another way out,
by continuing to do what was making my situation at least bearable {meditation, Yoga, T'aiChi, & Focusing (Refers to Eugene Gendlin's use of the term)}.
I continued to search for more ways to add to my "self-care-diet", which I now call my ever evolving Body-Mind-Spirit Routine
I lingered between life & death for many years, throughout the 1990's... and I find myself better, now, at age 59, than I was at 40 !

When I purchased the Procyon in April 2008, 9 months ago, I was at my wits' end, desperate for some relief.
I was at the brunt end of another long bout of not having had a single restful night in about 9 months... with many nights on the edge of tears, from discomfort !
BTW, did I mention that I also have Restless Legs Syndrome ? Hey, why not? I believe it all fits together in some way... between my two ears are brain-waves, so they say

The AVS-BWE technology has helped me - no doubt in my mind - the very first time I used it. 15 minutes of Night Voyage : Session No.23... (Placebo?)
Since then, short of having access to an EEG, I've been studying & experimenting like a mad & blind alchemist in a new found lab ,
programming sessions on the Procyon and on NP2, and doing my best to separate the chaff from the wheat, diamonds from rocks...
(marketing... you know what I mean... So, I do appreciate the honesty that I find on the Forum... )

During the same period, I have also invested in Biofeedback technology (emWave (PSR & PC) & Healing Rhythms), all of which are undoubtedly helping me... I use them every day.
I am now gazing in the far-far distance , when one day, money permitting, I might be able to get a Mind-Mirror from Anna Wise,
and hopefully gain a bit more sight & insight (through neurofeedback's objectivity & guidance).

There, in a nut shell:
I sleep much better, I breathe better, have more energy, have almost no more aches & pains, my eye sight has improved, & my "mind" works better as well... as my 3 companions fade in the distance.
It is also helping my wife & my 80 years old dad .
And, most importantly, I haven't lost my sense of humor in exchange, as an unwanted side-effect of all this time consuming new activity !

Don't get me wrong now, I'm not making medical claims here... G-d forbid, just sharing another anecdotal experience.

Thank you all.

[CraigT]

Ben, Marisa

Thank you so much for sharing your experiences with your physical health.

[Steps onto soapbox]

For the last couple of years I hung around a mood disorders website, and as fabulous as it was, it heavily reinforced my illness and the belief that the mentally ill are especially misunderstood and mistreated in the medical health field. We're sufficiently geographically spread for us to believe this is a global thing - no one government or philosophy is uniquely to blame.

What does this suggest? That we cannot be helped from without, that it up to us to find our own way, and then use the resources at our disposal, rather than throwing ourselves to the mercy of the 'benevolent mother government'.

[Steps from soapbox]

Here's to wellbeing, whatever that means to you,

Craig

[Marisa]

Hi BW,

I sympathize... with those who suffer...

Ah but interesting life changes come from suffering. Gee ... that kind of sucks. lol I guess some times a regular thunk in the head isn't enough.

Twenty years ago, after searching for over 15 years to find out what was the matter with me,
and always being told that everything was OK,
I stumbled on the term "sleep apnea" at the local library...
I asked to be checked in a sleep lab & they confirmed my suspicions!
I was diagnosed with Central Sleep Apnea, with Cheyne-Stoke Respiration...
which has as side effects Fibromyalgia & Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
Believe it or not, I felt so relieved to finally find an explanation as to why
"Achy, Groggy & Sleepy" were my 3 close & constant companions for decades !

It does feel good to know because then you have some place to go with it.

17 years ago, a reputable specialist in my area, told me that my condition was "chronic, permanent & irreversible" ! and placed me on disability !

That can be a double-edged sword. It's good to get disability if you need it but the "disabled world" can be a trap that is difficult to escape. I had a friend that was "disabled" who made friends with other disabled people and they were a bitter group and they even called people who weren't like them - "norms". In their case, their identities were too tied into their illness or disability. I don't see that as a mentally healthy place to be.

I replied instantly that although I respected his professional opinion,
there was no advantage for me to believe that my situation was as such ! Where would I go from there ?
He looked stunned. I refused to take the proposed drug-experiments to see what, if anything would help my "symptoms",
and told him that I preferred to believe that I would find another way out,
by continuing to do what was making my situation at least bearable {meditation, Yoga, T'aiChi, & Focusing (Refers to Eugene Gendlin's use of the term)}.
I continued to search for more ways to add to my "self-care-diet", which I now call my ever evolving Body-Mind-Spirit Routine
I lingered between life & death for many years, throughout the 1990's... and I find myself better, now, at age 59, than I was at 40 !

Wow, tough battle! I do believe this is a watering hole for warriors. I'm for both drugs and natural methods of healing. In my case, drugs (SSRIs) helped enormously! Not to mention the thyroid medication - would be lost without it. I also think it's essential to have a good "self-care-diet" as well because drugs can only do part of the job - attitude does the rest.

When I purchased the Procyon in April 2008, 9 months ago, I was at my wits' end, desperate for some relief.
I was at the brunt end of another long bout of not having had a single restful night in about 9 months... with many nights on the edge of tears, from discomfort !
BTW, did I mention that I also have Restless Legs Syndrome ? Hey, why not? I believe it all fits together in some way... between my two ears are brain-waves, so they say

The AVS-BWE technology has helped me - no doubt in my mind - the very first time I used it. 15 minutes of Night Voyage : Session No.23... (Placebo?)

No placebo ... just good technology.

Since then, short of having access to an EEG, I've been studying & experimenting like a mad & blind alchemist in a new found lab ,
programming sessions on the Procyon and on NP2, and doing my best to separate the chaff from the wheat, diamonds from rocks...
(marketing... you know what I mean... So, I do appreciate the honesty that I find on the Forum... )

I'm sure glad that you are getting good results with the Procyon. With sleep apnea, don't you stop breathing? I wonder if hypnosis would work to help that? A good hypnotist could perhaps introduce the suggestion to your unconscious that you are to continue breathing while your sleep. If you do decide to see a hypnotherapist, find one that is also certified in NLP (they are usually better at it).

During the same period, I have also invested in Biofeedback technology (emWave (PSR & PC) & Healing Rhythms), all of which are undoubtedly helping me... I use them every day.
I am now gazing in the far-far distance , when one day, money permitting, I might be able to get a Mind-Mirror from Anna Wise,
and hopefully gain a bit more sight & insight (through neurofeedback's objectivity & guidance).

Have you read her book, "High Performance Mind"?

There, in a nut shell:
I sleep much better, I breathe better, have more energy, have almost no more aches & pains, my eye sight has improved, & my "mind" works better as well... as my 3 companions fade in the distance.
It is also helping my wife & my 80 years old dad .
And, most importantly, I haven't lost my sense of humor in exchange, as an unwanted side-effect of all this time consuming new activity

!

Wow, maybe you don't need hypnosis. You go guy!

Don't get me wrong now, I'm not making medical claims here... G-d forbid, just sharing another anecdotal experience.

The FDA can't do anything about a customer making medical claims about his experiences.

M.

[Marisa]

[Steps onto soapbox]

For the last couple of years I hung around a mood disorders website, and as fabulous as it was, it heavily reinforced my illness and the belief that the mentally ill are especially misunderstood and mistreated in the medical health field. We're sufficiently geographically spread for us to believe this is a global thing - no one government or philosophy is uniquely to blame.

What does this suggest? That we cannot be helped from without, that it up to us to find our own way, and then use the resources at our disposal, rather than throwing ourselves to the mercy of the 'benevolent mother government'.

[Steps from soapbox]

Mental illness is just coming out of the closet and it will be a while before main-stream society has figured out how to deal with those who are afflicted. We're getting there ... slowly.

It's not an easy thing for people, let alone friends and family to deal with. Especially if the mental illness is something that distorts reality or causes emotional outbursts or violence.

A good majority of offenders in prison (especially violent offenders) suffer from a mental illness. Society is still mostly interested in revenge, not rehabilitation. I do believe that is slowly changing as well ... especially now that brain science is becoming more popular. The information that brain damage isn't always apparent but it can be behind all kinds of antisocial and criminal behavior. I guess that's my soap box.

M.

[TomC]

Wow, great input from everyone. We all have a few beast/demons to combat imop and it's great to see people actually doing this successfully!

Marisa, back you your AVS technology guide-V2, I think that it's very easy to read and follows the KISS principles.

I found it interesting to hear that while blue coloured light is good for relaxation, it is not so good for sleep, since it inhibits melatonin. Why then does the Procyon sleep programs (23-27) use a lot of blue light, esp. at the end? What, in your opinion, would be the best colour(s) to promote melatonin, or are you just better to rely on sounds (beats and background) only? Thanks.

Best cheers,
TomC

[Marisa]

Wow, great input from everyone. We all have a few beast/demons to combat imop and it's great to see people actually doing this successfully!

The nice thing about the forum is that perhaps others can draw inspiration from others examples.

Marisa, back you your AVS technology guide-V2, I think that it's very easy to read and follows the KISS principles.

Thanks, that's exactly what I was trying for.

I found it interesting to hear that while blue coloured light is good for relaxation, it is not so good for sleep, since it inhibits melatonin. Why then does the Procyon sleep programs (23-27) use a lot of blue light, esp. at the end? What, in your opinion, would be the best colour(s) to promote melatonin, or are you just better to rely on sounds (beats and background) only? Thanks.

You bring up a good point. One that I also wondered about. I didn't write the programs but if I was to wager a guess, I would say that if the blue lights are combined with another color then the effect would not be the same as if it were pure blue lights. Blue & red make purple etc.

My other guess is that the rest programs are meant to provide someone with deep relaxation but not put them to sleep.

The best color to produce serotonin (which becomes melatonin once it gets dark) is green.

I will email Robert and ask him about those programs and get back to you.

Good question and thanks for bringing it up.

M.

[Ben Willow]

Quote:
During the same period, I have also invested in Biofeedback technology (emWave (PSR & PC) & Healing Rhythms), all of which are undoubtedly helping me... I use them every day.
I am now gazing in the far-far distance , when one day, money permitting, I might be able to get a Mind-Mirror from Anna Wise,
and hopefully gain a bit more sight & insight (through neurofeedback's objectivity & guidance).
Re
Have you read her book, "High Performance Mind"? (MB)

REPLY: Yes, thanks... I already have her two books & 4 CDs... good stuff ! I'm presently enjoying them... Thanks... so much stuff to go through in this new field... years of fun ahead of me... long-life permitting !