Addictions, The Brain and AVS

[indigoladuk]

Dear Marisa,

This is really interesting. My intuition was telling me that my brain could synchronise to the binaurals and the lights at the same time, so that part of me was entrained to the sound frequency and 'another' part the lights. To me, this is no stranger than being in a room and experiencing a range of frequencies, e.g. from the colour of the wall, to the movement on the computer screen, and the thoughts in my head. They're all at different frequencies, but it isn't experienced as a 'mess' or 'chaos' as such, it's just all adding to the whole picture. Sometimes, if i put the wrong lights with the wrong music/brainwaves (well wrong for me anyway) I sense the clash and it jolts me from relaxation. If they, at least subjectively, match, then the feeling is of harmony. Are u saying that underneath that feeling of harmony is a energetic chaos or are you saying my brain will choose to focus on one frequency (the sound say) but not the lights?

I find this question fascinating for some reason, and cannot see why my brain wouldnt follow the hemi-sync and follow the lights as well. Maybe it depends on the person, but I would of thought the brain was quite capable of doing both. Anyway, thanks, this has got me thinking....

*Hugs* Jamie

[indigoladuk]

Marisa

Just realised... With binaural beats I understand how the binaural is created by two different frequencies which are then synthesised to create the Frequency Following Response, e.g. 540hz - 500hz = 40hz. However, with the lights, I don't know as much about how they work. My thought is that the lights are simpler than sound. That photic stimulation is simply the same frequency in each eye which causes FFR and synchronisation without the little calculation in the Reticular Activating System.

[Marisa]

Hi Jamie,

I'm thinking that you may be confusing brain wave frequencies with perception? Even though the two are related, we do not perceive in brain wave frequencies, though brain wave frequencies are a translation (sort of) of what we perceive. BWF are a measurement of a state of mind at any given time. In other words, they are not our thoughts but they are affected by our thoughts.

At any given time, all BWF are present in your head. Depending on what you are doing, one of the ranges of frequencies should be more dominant than the others. Metaphorically, the other frequencies are like the back up band and the dominant frequency is like the lead singer.

Your brain waves will have fluctuations, especially while you are awake. Your dominant brain wave may be in the Beta Range but it's also possible for Alpha to spike momentarily, especially if something makes you feel good.

Having said that - bombarding yourself with a variety of frequencies does not build mental acuity. At that point, your brain will likely filter out a bunch of it and may or may not be influenced by the out side frequencies.

This is something that you can not know for sure by intuition. The only way to really know what happens to your brain when it's exposed to multiple frequencies is by EEG. The rest is just guess work.

I like that you are thinking about what things affect you and how. I think it's great that you are becoming even more self aware of your thoughts and mood. Powerful things can come with this knowledge.


M.

[CraigT]

"I like that you are thinking about what things affect you and how. I think it's great that you are becoming even more self aware of your thoughts and mood. Powerful things can come with this knowledge."

Well said, Marisa. In addition to the direct effectiveness of AVS/BWE it is certainly an excellent point of focus for taking a good look at yourself.

Cheers,
Craig

[RichardHK]

Marisa
Just realised... With binaural beats I understand how the binaural is created by two different frequencies which are then synthesised to create the Frequency Following Response, e.g. 540hz - 500hz = 40hz. However, with the lights, I don't know as much about how they work. My thought is that the lights are simpler than sound. That photic stimulation is simply the same frequency in each eye which causes FFR and synchronisation without the little calculation in the Reticular Activating System.

Remember too that you need the differences in audio frequencies for the brain to artificially create the 40Hz or other frequency that is 'outside' of your normal hearing range. That's why it's a binaural beat, and not direct frequency. Drumming and such can create similar beats.

The visual frequency range is not constrained the same way, so just flashing the appropriate frequencies goes straight in, unedited.

As Marisa and Craig note. Spend time becoming aware of your own body and mind as meditators would.

Happy New Year to you and all.

[indigoladuk]

Dear Marisa,

I would like to learn more about the science behind this, can you recommend any good books on how this stuff may or may not work?

Good point Marisa, but I was thinking your (or mine anyway, hehe) could follow the binaural produced by the Hemi-Sync, but the light stimulation definitely seems to make the cds ten times more effective. Of course this may be due to something other than FFR.

I have heard on this site, and elsewhere, that you can only effectively have one frequency for binaural, yet many producers of binaural make recordings incorporating a range of frequencies. My own opinion is that the brain CAN resonate and follow multiple binaural beats. So I assumed if it could do that, it could also follow the lights even if they are at a different speed to the binaural.

You're right, tho, I tend to over-complicate matters...and of course only a EEG would tell. I will definitely be getting myself one someday! lol

Best wishes,
Jamie

[indigoladuk]

Richard,

Thanks for the interesting info. What do u mean when the lights? go in 'unedited'? I've been a meditator since I was 5, but thank you for the reminder as I've done less of that over the past few months before christmas..well, coincidentally enough, since purchasing my Procyon! But have done more chanting and meditation and reiki with friends in the past few weeks which is good.

Procyon and brainwaves for me, is a lot of fun and very practical, and is more for my adhd and learning rather than deep insightful meditation--after flashing lights and sound is a bit over-stimulating, whatever frequency it's on!--but I really need to rely on it less and get some daily insight meditation practise again. Thanks for the reminder.

Just about to check your cool soundign website! Wishing you the best for 2009 likewise

Jamie

[Marisa]

Dear Marisa,

I would like to learn more about the science behind this, can you recommend any good books on how this stuff may or may not work?

There are no good books specifically on light and sound (AVS) but there are a few good ones on EEG Neurofeedback, from which you can learn related information regarding the groups of frequencies and the brain.

On the Mindplace Support Site under reference, there are some good articles worth reading. I recently wrote an updated guide on the technology but haven't posted it yet because I'm still waiting for Robert to review it. I may post it as a draft and update it as needed. Check the library section of this forum as well.

Good point Marisa, but I was thinking your (or mine anyway, hehe) could follow the binaural produced by the Hemi-Sync, but the light stimulation definitely seems to make the cds ten times more effective. Of course this may be due to something other than FFR.

That would require me knowing how they programmed their cds, which information is not available. I've never tried the Hemi-sync products as I've gotten the results I want with my Proteus and Procyon. Sorry, not much help here.

I have heard on this site, and elsewhere, that you can only effectively have one frequency for binaural, yet many producers of binaural make recordings incorporating a range of frequencies. My own opinion is that the brain CAN resonate and follow multiple binaural beats. So I assumed if it could do that, it could also follow the lights even if they are at a different speed to the binaural.

The brain can follow multiple binaural beats but not at the same time. If the brain is exposed to multiple frequencies at the same time, it will likely pick one of them to entrain to and ignore the rest.

You're right, tho, I tend to over-complicate matters...and of course only a EEG would tell. I will definitely be getting myself one someday! lol

It's good to be curious and explore the technology in what ever direction interests you. Unfortunately, good information on the subject takes some investigation. My rule of thumb is to look for more than one source for information, although sometimes you'll find a group of writings that reference the same source and depending on what that source is ... also depends on how good or accurate the information is. Be skeptical.

M.

[RichardHK]

Richard,

Thanks for the interesting info. What do u mean when the lights? go in 'unedited'? I've been a meditator since I was 5, but thank you for the reminder as I've done less of that over the past few months before christmas..well, coincidentally enough, since purchasing my Procyon! But have done more chanting and meditation and reiki with friends in the past few weeks which is good. ... ...
--but I really need to rely on it less and get some daily insight meditation practise again. Thanks for the reminder. ... ...
Jamie

Hi Jamie,

What I was trying to say was that for binaural beats, the brain is sort of 'editing' the incoming sound and creating a brand new signal/experience. Not such a good word thinking about it again, as on the visual side you could argue same for the brain 'editing' the two or three coloured (colored) light sources and creating a kalaidoscopic end result we are familiar with.

Had better give some more deep thought to what I was thinking, as the audio and visual processes are quite different. We don't get a symphony of sound from the audio signals, for example.

Ulitimately we would all like to be mindful of everything all the time, but life needs us to survive, so a luxury most of the time. So I see the Light&Sound machines having a role to help us make the most of limited downtime to enter and explore different levels of consciousness.

[indigoladuk]

Hey Guys

This is so interesting. I am so curious about the multiple frequency question though. I like to remain sceptical, but i also am quite intuitive and my experience with multi-frequencies apparently confirms the claim. For example, when I have listened to multi-frequency binaural (gamma-beta-alpha-theta-delta) I have experienced a state very similar to that during Buddhist meditation when I had my EEG taken. I achieved in record time this brain pattern called 'awakened mind' (which is a balance of freq's across the spectrum resembling a slender hill or bell-curve). So if the multi-freq binaurals don't work as such, then I can only guess that it was a placebo experience? Which gets even more interesting, because if I was to have an EEG whilst listening to such a recording, well how would one work out if it was the binaurals or not? lol

What gets me, is that brain-sync (Kelly Howell), Hemi-Sync AND Anna Wise all have created multi-freq binaurals and made such a claim. But then, Kelly Howell/Brain-Sync (as much as I love her meditations n music)...still sell "subliminal" recordings for which there is apparently no evidence!

A little confused but open minded / sceptical!