Kasina and max output current

[ErikM]

Hello together,
i'm experimenting with my Kasina, 2 Procyons and 3 Proteus and CES Devices and headset-goggles. Therefore i need the information
for how much current for each eye color channel is allowed maximal. Because I don't want to drive the devices on the limit for long time.
It would be great if i can get the informations for the Procyon and Proteus too. (I don't want to ask the same questions in the Proteus and
Procyon Forum)
For example my latest project was the rebuild of 2 CES Oasis devices. Here i build a specific cable too, so that i can drive one CES Device
with the color red of the Proteus or Procyon and the other Device with the color green. Also i build some powerful headset-goggles where the color red
drives the LEDs for the right zone (one of my goggles is physiological right, like the David Pal goggles) and the color green drives the left zone.
So i can control the optical and tactile (electrical) left and right side of brain stimulation by 2 colors of the Proteus or Procyon.
Next i want to do this with my CES Devices and Kasina. (It work with some headset-goggles already).

Because of the parallel-switching of CES-Devices and LEDs (i use also RGB-LEDs) the current that flows per color channel is around 60 mA.
I fear that this is too much for the long term.

Thank you very much.
Best regards
Erik

[neuroasis]

The current output per conductor across all machines under normal operating conditions won't exceed say 25mA. The actual effective current varies with the amplitude, waveform and pulse width. The LEDs like to have around 20mA but we overdrive them some especially on the Procyon. There are current limiting resistors on all the light busses on the LED light strips.

When you say that you fear you are providing too much current for the long term, do you mean for the RGB leds? If so add some resistors in series, anywhere from 220ohm to 1k should be fine.

It sounds like an interesting project. Will you post some pictures?

Best,
Scott

[ErikM]

Hi Scott,
for example if you take a splitter-cable and take 2 pairs of goggles (each pair with around 20mA load) and a CES-Device (input is around 10 mA) also parallel to them, then the Kasina's or Procyon's or Proteus' output (of each color) has to provide around 50 mA.
I fear that the output of the mindmachine is burdened too high for the long term in this case.
(extreme example is: to shorten the output)

I will need a little bit time, then i will post some pictures.
Thank you.

Best regards
Erik

[Andy]

The Kasina will only deliver around 25mA, after that it goes into current limiting, so you'd probably be ok with 1 set of glasses and 1 CES, but not 2 pairs of glasses. Max Brightness is reduced when splitting the output of course.
A better way 2 drive multiple outputs would be with 2 Kasinas fed from one audio source so they're in sync.

[neuroasis]

A better way 2 drive multiple outputs would be with 2 Kasinas fed from one audio source so they're in sync.

Yeah, I have another user that drives a CES unit from the Kasina by routing AudioStrobe through a Proteus. So, you can do that. Keep in mind that the Green SpectraStrobe signal is the same as AudioStrobe so you could have it carry the main frequencies that you want to sync, then use the other color channels for another purpose, color changes, etc.

Also, because the way the Kasina is wired, with 2 channels of light per conductor you could build a cable that breaks out to the 6 channels total. Then with Procyon glasses you could use 3 of those channels for lights and the other 3 channels for another purpose. As I mentioned in another thread some SpectraStrobe and KBS sessions take advantage of both busses and under this scenario wouldn't play as intended.

Under this scenario, the Procyon glasses would require the common anode side, so your other device would need to recognize a common cathode arrangement. Or you could swap that if you used Photosonix type glasses. David uses common anode (power).

[ErikM]

Hello again,

thank you Scott and Andy for your answers.
"Current limiting" was the answer that washed away my fear.

Here are the promised pics from my project Headset and CES:
I build a total of 4 Headset-goggle-pairs.
Number 1 is a headset with only 1 LED with 1 color per side (with female jacks, so that i can change the color-LED)
Number 2 is headset with 2 LEDs in series (also with female jacks)
(I didn't take a picture of these 2 above)
Then i build a headset with 1 RGBW Leds per side. But this headset has to be driven through a control-driver-box.
I build 2 boxes: 1 for the Kasina and 1 for the Proteus, Procyon or David Pal.
With these boxes i can also drive my fourth headset, which has 2 RGBW Leds per side.
These Leds are switched physiological right for reaching the left or/and right hemisphere of the brain.
(You can see it on one or two pics [with my builded Omega-stand] where i swith only the right channel)
With the box for Proteus, Procyon or David Pal i can switch manually the LED-colors red or/and green or/and blue or/and white.
It also has a mode switch where i can choose the right-left-Mode or the RGB-Mode (with left and right side together) and additional white
color switchable.
The maximum brightness of the RGBW-LEDs is enormous. It can have effects like the Lucia No 3 (what i could test for 15 minutes)
With these headsets and another of my projects i can have exactly positioned bright light for the short distance and ambient bright
light with 2 spotlights (RGBW or RGBA)
Sorry, but my 2 Procyons are not on the pictures.

The CES-project is working with up to 3 CES devices. (I build 2 devices from the old Oasis, the devices with blue housings on the pictures)
For example can i drive the device for the right ear with color red, for the left ear with color green and
for the forehead with color blue.
(I use a headband with snap-cables for the forehead stimulation from the old Zeo sleep manager. What a pity that this company doesn't exist anymore)

with best regards
Erik

[neuroasis]

Very nice. I especially like the breakout box for LED colors. Do the light shields rotate upward to move out of the way? I am guessing you used headset microphones mounts.

Are the LEDs of the Pirahna type? https://www.adafruit.com/products/314 These type are very bright for their size. Overall a quite excellent build.

Have you considered putting the MindBrite OS (PM if interested) on one of your Procyons for a pRoshi type experience?

Excellent work and thanks some much for sharing. These type of hacker projects are of great interest.

Best,
Scott

[ErikM]

Hello Scott,
thanks for the compliments.
Your guess is right, i used headset microphone mounts. So the light shields can be rotate upward and downward. (You can see it on the picture with the case,
there they are rotated upwards).
I experimented with the Piranha Leds before. But for me they have not enough brightness (especially the color blue). So i took the Luxeon Z Leds. Here is a link to a german shop, who has them mounted on a board already (red, green, blue and white):
http://www.leds.de/High-Power-LEDs/L...chparam=LUXEON

It was difficult to solder the wires on the board, because i glued the Led-aluminium-board with a thermo-conductor-glue on an angled aluminium-stripe. So this is an excellent thermo-conductor and most heat of the soldering iron went away.
I drive the Leds with only 150 mA for each color (with a driver circuit), but the max current for one color of the RGBW-Leds can be up to 700 mA! That would blow one away.

By the way, i see an interesting video from you about simple connecting a vibrating motor to the Kasina. Aren't these motor vibrators not too slow for frequencies above 10 hz? Because one of my future tactile projects is to control piezoelectric transducers with a mindmachine. They are not so slow like vibrating motors.
It is also a pity, that the indiegogo campaign "Zen vibes" didn't succeed. The guys there had the right attempt for a haptic mindmachine.

To build a pRoshi like experience is also one of my open projects. I'm very interested into it. (I will contact you)
Thanks

with best regards
Erik

[Robert Austin]

Very neat set of projects, Erik! If you email me robert @ mindplace.com, I can send you the LED driver diagram for the Procyon to fine tune your current drain. As I recall Todd limited the current to 18 ma in this circuit. But LEDs spec'd to 20 ma can be driven brighter / higher current when pulsed, so I think at say 30% duty cycle and max brightness, 22-23 ma to the LEDs should be safe. Though in your case it appears you are using higher current LEDs. The Proteus uses a similar circuit to drive the LEDs and the Kasina uses a separate but safe circuit that basically shuts down the power if the drain is too high. The transistors used in Proteus and Procyon are pretty robust, you could change the resistor values to increase the current if you wanted to hack the PCB...

Thanks for posting this project!

Cheers,

Robert

[Neel]

Hi Erik,
Wondering where are you with these projects. Do you still use them? Would like to know more specially the CES part.