Question about the Procyon and glasses

[frey]

I have been thinking about the Procyon for some time now, but I want to use glasses from Proteus if I need. I don't know if the connection for the glasses is special on Procyon because it has 3 colors not 2 as normal. Is the connection the same or is it different? Will it fit? Will it work? If not is there some adapter I can buy or make that would make this possible? Maybe a idea to sell such adapters?

[Marisa]

Hi Frey,

I have been thinking about the Procyon for some time now, but I want to use glasses from Proteus if I need. I don't know if the connection for the glasses is special on Procyon because it has 3 colors not 2 as normal. Is the connection the same or is it different? Will it fit? Will it work? If not is there some adapter I can buy or make that would make this possible? Maybe a idea to sell such adapters?

The connectors for the glasses for the Procyon are different than that for the Proteus so you can not use the Proteus Glasses with the Procyon. Also, I do not believe that there is an adaptor you could use either.

I'm curious. Why would you want to use Proteus glasses with the Procyon? The Procyon glasses have the same colors as the Proteus, plus blue.

M.

[frey]

To be honest it is not as much about the wish to use the glasses as it is the wish to be free to use the glasses I want. I could probably think of a couple of scenarios where the use of Proteus glasses could come in handy, but that is not the issue. I have been reading up on alternatives to drug use and one that has shown much potential is the use of a CES machine, which is also the reason I have another thread here on the forum asking mindplace to consider releasing a CES machine. After searching about CES machines online I found a couple, all of them work as standalone machines, but what I found is that some of them will also synchronize with a mind machine. I think that is a great idea to combine AVS stimulation with CES stimulation and that is what I hope to do. Most CES machines are only compatible with some mind machine, but fortunately very many seem to be compatible with Sirius and Proteus which as everyone knows are the former models from mindplace. The way the CES machines work is that they connect through the port for the glasses with a Y cable which is connected on one end to the mind machine, the other end to the CES machine and the last end to the glasses. I have not seen many other mind machines to know if the port for the glasses where different so therefore luckily one day it hit me that the Procyon has 3 colors and therefore might use a different port, which seems to be the case. Now since it seems that mindplace do not plan on making any CES machine I will have to get one from another company (one that is compatible with Proteus) and my problem now is how to make it synchronize with the Procyon. I saw in the thread for a user-mode for Procyon that it would be possible to make it only use 2 colors so I know it would be possible to use it in "Proteus" mode. Now if only the port has changed to allow for more colors it might be easy to make an adapter, but if the way it communicates with the glasses has changed too it would be more difficult since a adapter would not be enough, there would have to be a converter too. I don't know and need more information and help on this issue which I hope mindplace will give me. I don't know if they plan to make an adapter or not, if not I would try to make one myself if I got some more information and also a place where I can buy the plug that fits into the port of Procyon. Now that I have explained are there any ideas or recommendations on this?

Also I think I should add that I know that this means I am going outside the intended use of Procyon and that it would mean that my warranty would be void. I am a technical and careful person so I think everything will be ok, but if it ends up not to be I will not hold anyone responsible or liable for my actions and any outcome of them. I also accept the consequences of my choices. It is a risk I consider worth taking. I just want everyone to not fear helping me accomplish my goal because whatever the result ends up being I would rather have tried and failed then not have tried.

[Marisa]

To be honest it is not as much about the wish to use the glasses as it is the wish to be free to use the glasses I want. I could probably think of a couple of scenarios where the use of Proteus glasses could come in handy, but that is not the issue.

I still don't understand why you would want to use anything other than the glasses that were designed specifically for the machine and work best with that machine. Ya, variety is nice but that's like saying, I want my bicycle to be able to accomodate any tire (even though the tire on the bike at the moment are the best for the bike). I don't get it.



I have been reading up on alternatives to drug use and one that has shown

much potential is the use of a CES machine, which is also the reason I have another thread here on the forum asking mindplace to consider releasing a CES machine.

Alternatives to drugs for what purpose? What in particular are you trying to achieve? Depending on what your goal is, sometimes drugs are the best answer. For example, if you have an infection - antibiotics (which are drugs) are the best route to go. It all depends on what problem you are trying to solve. If you are looking to increase your brain efficiency, then some of the machines may help but you also need to be doing brain exercises, taking a look at how you think and process information (make changes where necessary) and taking supplements that help nourish the brain.

Now since it seems that mindplace do not plan on making any CES machine I will have to get one from another company (one that is compatible with Proteus) and my problem now is how to make it synchronize with the Procyon. I saw in the thread for a user-mode for Procyon that it would be possible to make it only use 2 colors so I know it would be possible to use it in "Proteus" mode. Now if only the port has changed to allow for more colors it might be easy to make an adapter, but if the way it communicates with the glasses has changed too it would be more difficult since a adapter would not be enough, there would have to be a converter too. I don't know and need more information and help on this issue which I hope mindplace will give me.

I wonder if combining the L&S machine with a CES is "over-kill"?

I don't know if they plan to make an adapter or not, if not I would try to make one myself if I got some more information and also a place where I can buy the plug that fits into the port of Procyon. Now that I have explained are there any ideas or recommendations on this?

Sorry I can't help you here as this isn't my area of expertise.

Also I think I should add that I know that this means I am going outside the intended use of Procyon and that it would mean that my warranty would be void.

Yes, there is that.

I am a technical and careful person so I think everything will be ok, but if it ends up not to be I will not hold anyone responsible or liable for my actions and any outcome of them. I also accept the consequences of my choices. It is a risk I consider worth taking. I just want everyone to not fear helping me accomplish my goal because whatever the result ends up being I would rather have tried and failed then not have tried.

Please be careful.

M.

[frey]

I will be careful, thank you for caring. Also I do see your point, the glasses included with the Procyon are very good and there is little reason to change them, but it still doesn't change that Proteus had more freedom and that Procyon is more restricted, even if it is not on purpose. I am very sure I will use is a CES machine and this is because I found it to be a good alternative to normal drugs. I agree that sometimes drugs are the best route to go, but I also agree that it all depends on the problem. Right now after a lot of research on how normal drugs work, how the brain works and how alternative treatments work, I have understood much more which has helped me in making the decision on what is the best for me. Also I don't think it is "over-kill" to use L&S with CES, I actually think it will open up much more possibilities.

Now what I am looking for is a way to convert the new port on Procyon to the old type of port. If you search online you will see that Proteus was much recommended to be used with different CES machines and also sold together with CES machines in packs because it was very good L&S machine and it was compatible with CES machines. I think Procyon is even better and it is very sad that people that wants to use L&S together with CES will have to buy another not so good L&S machine (of course Proteus is not one of them because it is very good, but also it is a bit old now). Also since mindplace is not going to make a CES machine themself I see no reason why they should have a problem with Procyon being used with other CES machines. If mindplace does not want to use the time to develop an adapter or converter, which I can understand, at least give out enough information so that other can make it. If they want to keep the specifications of the port secret which I also understand, then they should make the adapter or converter themself and then sell it as an add-on to anyone interested. The only problem is see is if they think about liability or guarantee, but also that can be dealt with by having an agreement with the people interested which removes the liability and guarantee from mindplace. I know mindplace has great support and I have seen on the forum that they very often take feedback from the users and try to make something out of what they say, but I also know that what I am asking for is a big thing so I can understand that it is difficult. Still I think we can come to a compromise that makes everybody happy because mindplace and Procyon is great and therefore everybody should have the possibility to experience them, even people that use CES.

[frey]

I see nobody has anything else to add to this thread, which is somewhat disappointing especially because I had hoped someone from mindplace that had more information on either how to accomplish the task or why they would not want to do so, would add some input. I have seen I am not the only one that want something like this and therefore I believe we should try to find a solution.

[Babakool]

Hey Frey-

I've read your CES thread and some others, and have decided that there is strong anti-CES bias in these forums. Marisa, in particular, seems spooked by it at best. In one thread, she tried to make the highly dubious linkage between the history of electro-shock therapy and potential CES side effects. This is just uninformed opinion and patently absurd. The body of data on the safety and therapeutic value of CES is far greater than for light/sound devices. This is why you can actually buy a FDA approved CES medical device. I know of no FDA approved light/sound anything. I'm not an advocate for FDA approval per se, but it does mean you can at least demonstrate therapeutic action. I am a retired N.D. (among other things) with well over 20 years experience in advanced alternative medical modalities. I was first hooked up to a micro-current device (an Alpha-Stim) about 15 years ago by a distributor friend and was instantly sold. I have recommended and prescribed CES to countless patients and friends, with almost universal benefit and no negative reporting, save fear of actually trying it. As you noted, it can be quite useful for substance usage withdrawal symptoms.

I would agree with Marisa about the use of supplements, specifically targeted amino acids and other neurotransmitter precursors, as a basic tool for a healthy nervous system. The book 'Natural Highs' by Hyla Cass M.D. and Patrick Holford, may be of interest to you as it covers a lot of this territory quite well. Other areas worth exploring are cognitive therapy techniques and the Taoist internal alchemy (Nei Kung) formulas being taught by various folks. The latter, in conjunction with with Chinese herbology, can provide an amazing foundation for personal neuro-modulation and overall health expertise.

As far as getting much more assistance in the Procyon/CES sync department here, I wouldn't count on it. Besides what I perceive as the anti-CES bias, there appears to be a general lack of support for people wanting 'more' from their systems. "Why would you want to do 'that'?" seems to be a common reply, especially when we've created the most wonderful device in all the land There are always the small percentage of humans who are going to want to do 'that' and more. It's usually up to us to DIY. If the prospect of modifying your unit is personally daunting, you can always hire a skilled electronics person to do it for you.

As I just posted in my own 'Procyon Sync' thread, I don't view not having this ability as the end of the world. The Neuro-Trek Digital Pro I currently have functions for me as a TENS and electro-acupuncture unit as well. Using it as a 'baseline' device in conjunction with a L/S unit would be very useful. A setting of .5 hz with reduced duty cycle and increased current for endorphin/enkephalin release, would be quite a powerful addition to any relaxation session. A 7.83 hz Schumann resonance frequency could be another nice baseline to center a session around. I wouldn't get too hung up on the sync issue. The idea of having 'all one brain wave' is rooted in the grossly over simplified notion of 'brain wave' measurements as some kind of ultimate arbiter of brain states. Even the much more high tech fMRI imaging being done now are just 'pretty picture' data of really ultra-complex electro-neuro-chemical interactions. When you consider other interesting research into say, the Enteric Nervous System (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/23/he...57033b&ei=5070) it becomes clear that current body/mind models of consciousness are still pretty limited and evolving rapidly. Regarding the ENS, the Taoist concept of the Tan T'ien (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dantian) is of particular note, demonstrating once again how advanced many ancient energetic models of human existence really were.

In closing, I would advise making use of what 'is', rather than complaining about what 'isn't'. The former is practical while the latter is just a poor personal neuro-modulation decision that will leave you feeling bad.

Best regards and luck in your journey.

[Marisa]

Hi Babakool,

I've read your CES thread and some others, and have decided that there is strong anti-CES bias in these forums.

I believe I said in an earlier message that although I personally wouldn't use one of those machines (as I am not familiar with it) I hadn't read about any negative side effects from it's use. That's hardly a "strong anti-CES bias". LOL

Keep in mind that this forum is owned by Mindplace (meaning it's not a public forum) and is geared toward discussion regarding their products and related technology. Although some deviation from the topic of the products is tolerated - this really isn't the place that you will find discussions regarding other people's products or alternate technology hence it may "appear" there is a bias against something where there really isn't.

Marisa, in particular, seems spooked by it at best. In one thread, she tried to make the highly dubious linkage between the history of electro-shock therapy and potential CES side effects.

"Spooked" - no. Cautious, yes. As I've mentioned before, I am not familiar with CES technology. In my comment regarding EST, I was making the point that anything can be tested and believed to be safe, only to be found to have negative consequences later. If you'd like to discuss the safety of applying electricity to the brain ... by all means ... enlighten me.

This is just uninformed opinion and patently absurd.

Flaming the moderator ... well that's just looking for trouble. lol

Yes, my opinion is uninformed as I know nothing about CES. "Patently absurd" ... maybe but I think with your level of intelligence, you are fully capable of getting your point across in a much friendlier and helpful way.

You seem like a well informed person - and from what you say about your background, you are a professional with many years of experience - and I'm sure that with your knowledge and experience, you could be a great asset to this forum. It's simply not cool to tell anyone that their opinion is "absurd". If we allow this sort of thing here, then people will be afraid to ask questions or state their opinions for fear that someone will talk down to them, call them names or make them look stupid. I hope you can understand why I couldn't just let the comment go.

The body of data on the safety and therapeutic value of CES is far greater than for light/sound devices. This is why you can actually buy a FDA approved CES medical device. I know of no FDA approved light/sound anything.

FDA approval in the case of L&S machines has less to do with safety and testing more to do with money and politics. It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to have something FDA "approved". L&S technology is very closely related to EEG technology, which has been researched extensively ... maybe even more than your CES machines.

I'm not an advocate for FDA approval per se, but it does mean you can at least demonstrate therapeutic action.

We make no medical claims concerning our machines.

I am a retired N.D. (among other things) with well over 20 years experience in advanced alternative medical modalities.

What is an "N.D."?

I was first hooked up to a micro-current device (an Alpha-Stim) about 15 years ago by a distributor friend and was instantly sold. I have recommended and prescribed CES to countless patients and friends, with almost universal benefit and no negative reporting, save fear of actually trying it. As you noted, it can be quite useful for substance usage withdrawal symptoms.

I have read that it is helpful with withdrawal symptoms but I couldn't find any information on why it worked in this capacity. Do you have more detailed information on this?

As far as getting much more assistance in the Procyon/CES sync department here, I wouldn't count on it.

You are correct, only because it's not a direction that the company wants to focus on because they are busy with developing other products in the line that we specialize in. We don't have the man-power (or money) to explore all suggested avenues.

Besides what I perceive as the anti-CES bias, there appears to be a general lack of support for people wanting 'more' from their systems.

There really is no bias against CES, it's just not an area of interest (product wise) to us, at least not right now. I suppose you could say that we are biased to our products and you would be correct as this is a forum about our products run by the company who makes the products (and related people in the industry). So ... we are not biased against any other technology, though we are biased in our interest in our products and that related technology. How's that for a rant about a word "bias". LOL

"Why would you want to do 'that'?" seems to be a common reply, especially when we've created the most wonderful device in all the land

It certainly is not what we say. Although our machines are the most wonderful devices in all the land. ha ha ha kidding .. maybe.

There are always the small percentage of humans who are going to want to do 'that' and more. It's usually up to us to DIY. If the prospect of modifying your unit is personally daunting, you can always hire a skilled electronics person to do it for you.

I agree and that is good advice.

M.

[Andy]

I'm investigating the idea of getting some adapters made for those of you who are interested. Please vote here if you think you would buy one were it available:
http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...read.php?t=318

[frey]

I'm investigating the idea of getting some adapters made for those of you who are interested. Please vote here if you think you would buy one were it available:http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...read.php?t=318

Thank you very much Andy, I really appreciate that you are even just considering making an adapter and gave me great confidence in mindplace as a company with great support and one that listens to its customers.

Hey Frey-
I've read your CES thread and ...

Very interesting Babakool and I will be investigating much of the pieces you recommended. I am willing to do it myself, but I lack the knowledge and I am willing to learn, but I have no help and that makes it a bit more difficult, that is the reason why an adapter by mindplace would be great. Luckly they seem to be considering one now, which is great. Also I agree that focusing on what is instead of what isn't is better, might even be that synchronization between Procyon and CES is actually not as effective, but I am a person that likes to experiment and wants to do more.

You are correct, only because it's not a direction that the company wants to focus on because they are busy with developing other products in the line that we specialize in. We don't have the man-power (or money) to explore all suggested avenues.

I understand this and respect this stand and that is the reason for why I am willing to take it upon myself to make it, the thing that frustrated me some was the lack of information, yet at the same time I would have understood they might want to keep some parts of the hardware secret and therefore not release any information. The only thing I wanted was a response from mindplace, which we have gotten now in the form of that they are considering making an adapter