Using the Kasina while asleep etc.

**CromCruach** · 01-13-2017, 03:57 PM

Hi,
Perhaps a foolish question:-
I would like to use NP3 and MWS sessions as well as the Kasina/Sirius sessions while asleep, preferably for the full 6 hours I usually need. The problem is that I move around a lot during sleep which means that the Kasina earbuds tend to drop out pretty soon. I was thinking of using more comfortable wired sleepphones with the Kasina instead such as this just for sleeping:-

http://www.sleepphones.com/products/...and-headphones

I presume that there would be no problem re compatibility? It's just that I previously bought some gadgets which did not reveal their incompatibility until I received the goods.

Secondly, I recognise that sleep requires delta AND theta wave variations. Would it be harmful(or a waste of time) to, say, listen to a constant looping of the standard Neuroprogrammer 3 subdelta brainwave entrainment session all night long on the Kasina, therefore? I am pretty certain that alpha/beta/gamma BWE sessions would be useless while trying to sleep.

**Andy** · 01-13-2017, 08:07 PM

The Kasina's audio system is like an mp3 player or iPod. Try different headphones or earbuds just to see what I mean. I've never used those specific sleep phones, so I have no idea what their sound quality is like, but if they sound ok you should be fine. Maybe see if they have a satisfaction guarantee so you can return them if they don't work for you.

**robinhood** · 01-14-2017, 09:39 AM

I have a pair of SleepPhones which come with the standard 3.5mm stereo (two ring) jack, so will work with the Kasina. Mine are about 5 years old and here is the spec (unless they have been updated since)

Impendance 32; Frequency 20-20kHz; Power 300/500 mW. Cord is approx 48" from jack to entering the fleece headband. Speakers can be removed so you can wash the fleece band. Sometimes I find it a bit fiddly to get the speakers directly over the ears and as you move around a lot during sleep it's possible the speakers may move and not be directly over your ears at some point. Sound quality is about the same as low-end headphones. Nothing special but maybe OK for simple sounds and basic music. Another possible slight advantage is that you could place the fleece band over your eyes, to act like a sleep mask, depending on width. Worn in the correct way, the cord comes out at the back of the of the fleece band.

If you look at the Sleep/Insomnia tracks within NP3 you will see a few of them also work with speakers, so a limited, but cheaper option may be pillow speakers, unless this will be a problem for someone else, should you not sleep alone. Most pillow speakers come with one speaker, but there are some two speakers models that you could place either side of the pillow, on top of the pillow under the cover, such as these, and these in fact claim not to disturb anyone else.

https://www.amazon.com/TTSAM-Portabl...5P9H1MHH2354VC

With regards to brainwaves, Beta or anything faster is normally associated with the day-to-day awakened state, so will probably disrupt the sleep cycle. Alpha tends to form only a small percentage of the sleep cycle, either going down into sleep (feeling drowsy) or awakening at the end of the sleep cycle (as well as a few other short periods during the sleep cycle). Theta actually forms the majority of the sleep cycle.

With regards to Delta it is an interesting point. Delta sleep is the most restorative stage of the sleep cycle, but more is not necessarily better, especially if you are already getting enough, as Delta sleep still only forms about 25% of the sleep period. Another interesting point is that the 25% of Delta sleep doesn't happen in a single period, but more in 3 - 4 segments during the sleep period and gets progressively shorter as the sleep cycles progress. So playing a constant Delta track during sleep may also disrupt the sleep cycle. That's not to say that it will disrupt the sleep cycle, as everyone is different so try it and see how you go. Although this is for the average person, the following page will give you some information about the various sleep cycles and how they fluctuate up and down numerous times during the sleep period, rather than it being just one single cycle.

http://www.howsleepworks.com/types_cycles.html

**Neuro-Surfer** · 01-15-2017, 09:43 PM

Hi there :-)

May I ask what your specific goal is with regards to using AVE during sleep?
Just curious as I think the actual rhythm of our sleep phases differ from person to person - so they are quite individual... and trying to push your system to a specific structure via AVE tracks may actually be a Procrustean bed, possibly doing more harm than good.

Best regards
Michael

**CromCruach** · 01-18-2017, 01:03 PM

My aim is to lower my high blood-pressure. I also want to lower my average cortisol levels, generally reduce my stress levels, get high testosterone-levels(I'm male). From what I read subdelta(particularly 1.45 HZ) is best for that sort of thing....

**Neuro-Surfer** · 01-18-2017, 07:24 PM

Thank you for providing that context :-)

Indeed, blood pressure and cortisol are both linked to stress levels - so you should be able to address all three at the same time. IMHO, neither video games nor heavy metal music will probably support that though - even though you may find it relaxing, I don't think it will actually induce a real relaxation response (i.e. parasympathetic activity vs. sympathetic activity). That's really a critical distinction that I found very counter-intuitive when I first came across it: If we're high on dopamine, we may even find thrilling activities kind of soothing because they fit into the dopamine profile (new! exciting! discovery!) - but we're really spiralling more and more into sympathetic mode and tend to end up kind of empty-exhausted/burned out at the end. It just feels like it's not sustainable (that's the closest I can describe it).

To really effectively de-stress, a profound parasympathetic experience would be needed. Do you meditate or practice Yoga/Tai Chi or something along this side of slower activities with inward body awareness? If not, you might actually find the slow switch to a parasympathetic state "boring" - until you're really in it (at which time the part of your mind that finds it "boring" isn't very active any more and your deeper being can enjoy the state fully ;-) We had folks in Yoga classes at a clinic (folks at risk of or even after heart attacks) and you could easily spot the folks that were still dopamine-high and in the sympathetic cycle: They would check their clocks during the session while the others actually drifted into the postures and forgot about time ;-)

Regarding inducing a relaxation response, I would recommend doing entrainment visually and auditory but with actual focus (not as a side activity or running in the background) for at least 20 minutes until you feel the relaxation response physically. If you find it's too boring, you're probably not in the parasympathetic state yet. Sometimes we're so energetic that it feels impossible to endure the non-activity ;-) Doing some almost exhausting sport before might help in that case :-)

And of couse, you can use entrainment to induce deep recovery (during a mid-day siesta) and sleep - but I wouldn't try to mess with sleep cycles themselves. Once your system "takes over" - it knows best what to do and what you need. If you interfere by imposing a specific structure, you might actually end up less recovered in the morning. Does that make sense?

But you'll see if you just try it out. In the end, everybody is different and this is just my own observation and what I experience with clients.

**CromCruach** · 01-18-2017, 11:52 PM

I tried yoga in the past, pre-BWE, and it did not work for me. However, I have had some success with 1 or 2 of the meditation tracks . I'll keep on experimenting.