How long to entrainment

**Moonchild** · 08-04-2014, 04:33 AM

I see quite a few of the progs on the Kasina are quite short. I thought it took a bit of time for the brain to start being entrained. Do the short ones work as well as the longer sessions?

also is there anywhere we can see the layout of the sessions like we had in the Proteus? I found that very helpful when selecting what to listen to.

Also, if I play a self hypnoses session from my ipad through the Kasina....does the Kasina over ride the binaural beats etc and give you the rearranged session if that makes sense

Thanks in advance

**neuroasis** · 08-04-2014, 05:08 AM

The Kasina has nice mix of longer and shorter sessions. The shorter sessions are designed to be used in groups if you want a longer experience. If you select a folder on the Kasina and press the right side of the navigation button then the files will play back one after the other as a playlist. Each of the sessions within the folders use related frequencies and the folder names are generally synonyms for the recognized brainwave bands. So each session in that folder has related frequencies.

There are plenty of long play sessions which would be suitable for a 'one track' meditation. We also wanted to give people the chance to have shorter excursions and vary the mix of sessions.

There is a very real phenomena in repetitive stimulus. After time the brain begins to filter it out and it no longer has the effect that it once did. This is called habituation. The Kasina sessions are more complex and mix up frequencies within the band, like say Alpha, to insure a much greater chance of key frequencies being stimulated.

Since they are not simple ramps like most of our earlier sessions were (the Procyon started to push this) then it would not be as useful to detail or visualize the shapes of the ramps.

The Kasina does not override the entrainment in external audio. It can add to it with the new KBS AUX Mod feature (on the latest firmware) or it can mix other tones or stimulation in that are contained in the onboard sessions.

Hope this answers your questions, if not ask for more info.

Best,
Scott

**Moonchild** · 08-04-2014, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by neuroasis

The Kasina has nice mix of longer and shorter sessions. The shorter sessions are designed to be used in groups if you want a longer experience. If you select a folder on the Kasina and press the right side of the navigation button then the files will play back one after the other as a playlist. Each of the sessions within the folders use related frequencies and the folder names are generally synonyms for the recognized brainwave bands. So each session in that folder has related frequencies.

There are plenty of long play sessions which would be suitable for a 'one track' meditation. We also wanted to give people the chance to have shorter excursions and vary the mix of sessions.

There is a very real phenomena in repetitive stimulus. After time the brain begins to filter it out and it no longer has the effect that it once did. This is called habituation. The Kasina sessions are more complex and mix up frequencies within the band, like say Alpha, to insure a much greater chance of key frequencies being stimulated.

Since they are not simple ramps like most of our earlier sessions were (the Procyon started to push this) then it would not be as useful to detail or visualize the shapes of the ramps.

The Kasina does not override the entrainment in external audio. It can add to it with the new KBS AUX Mod feature (on the latest firmware) or it can mix other tones or stimulation in that are contained in the onboard sessions.

Hope this answers your questions, if not ask for more info.

Best,
Scott

Hi Scott
Thanks for the detailed answer. I see (I think ) that the Kasina has maybe several layers? whereas my trusty old Proteus has just a selection of simple ramps. I can see now that it would not be helpful to see them written out

i get mixed up enough as it is.
Maybe its just a big leap for me from the Proteus to the Kasina so I missed out on the Proycon that was a half way stage.

I am still finding my way around and I need to be using it daily to get the hang of it although it really is very simple to operate.
So, as far as altering brainwaves in specific ways....for example...with the Proteus if I felt I needed more alpha in my life I would simply choose one of the sessions that has a lot of that. Whereas with the Kasina....I would chose from what exactly? eeekkk

I can see that the meditations one are geared for deep levels and the accelerate would be for more focusing etc but what about the mind mind art ones?
What are they meant to do?
I can see they can be used to explore the colours and different imagery etc but what level of brainwaves are they mostly geared to?

Also the trance ones? Are they deep but not as deep as the meditation ones?
I really enjoyed the shaman's drum that I used today.

It says it goes from 22htz down to 2.2 htz and I would say this is where I really noticed the difference as I do not actually feel that I am as entrained as when using the Protues....for the beats sounded the same (although very enjoyable) whereas with the proteus I could actually FEEL my brainwaves changing in time to the sound if that makes sense. Is the Kasina geared to be more subtle?

Sorry for all my questions lol but it's fascinating and I want to be using it to the best advantage

Any chance of a simple chart that highlighted the sessions to chose for specifics like self hypnoses etc. like we had with the Proteus or do you feel there should be enough info on the booklet?

**neuroasis** · 08-04-2014, 09:29 AM

There can always be more information. The more people know the better. The thing is that it is also quite easy (easier than you think) to pre-program people's experiences with descriptions and file names. That is the placebo effect. It is not necessarily a bad thing. However, it has been abused to the point where people are buying junk and being taken advantage of. When you say that simple binaural beat sessions are illicit drugs then you have a big problem for everybody. They are not.

I think it is true that the Procyon started the direction of moving into interesting and complex sessions that were more psychoactive than necessarily structured for entrainment. The Mind Art concept really started there. It has always been in the background but the technology had to catch up. The Kasina makes it very, very possible to create complex and interesting sessions. Most all of our AudioStrobe cds have geometric mind art on them rather than traditional entrainment sessions.

Now of course that is not to say that the Kasina is not capable of world class entrainment sessions. It is, easily. The KBS format (and SS and AS too) are really ideal for this and the goal is to make these types of specific sessions incredibly easy for anyone to make. Our past editors required a bit more of a tinkering nature.

Broadly:

Accelerate is Beta and Gamma burst sessions
Meditate is Alpha range sessions
Trance is Theta sessions
Night Voyage is lower Theta and Delta sessions
Rejuvenate is upper alpha, SMR and Beta

As a hardware manufacturer we are held to a different standard than audio only producers or software systems. We sometimes have to provide 'names' for things.

22hz to 2hz is a huge range and you are not likely to 'entrain' to something that broad, but certainly your consciousness is altered. This is the case where a simple ramp is not advisable. When you move between frequency jumps like this you want to use the Law of Octaves.. meaning start your entrainment in a range that is easy to pickup like alpha 10hz, establish that, then jump down to 5hz. Your brainwaves (loosely) would take on this new emphasis in the spike of the wavefoms more easily. Then to 2.5hz and jump to 20 and so on.... However in between you are also 'scanning' the brain wave range to 'dial' in the predominant rhythm. Say much like scanning a radio band and looking for stations.

People are operating at different frequencies so to speak so you do a sweep in the alpha band, to 'excite' the prime frequency and then encourage change in it.

The addition of music also creates an environment and somewhat an emotional overlay. Whereas, the 'beeps' of the Proteus are unavoidable in their rhythm. You have done a lot of work with this type of stimulus (as have many long time users on the forum) so the KBS format is kind of a bridge between them. It never made much sense to fill a factory card with a bunch of recorded beeping sessions.

More traditional type sessions can be made if people want them. Much more content is coming.

**Moonchild** · 08-05-2014, 03:06 AM

Wow! Thanks again Scot for that detailed and very helpful reply. I know what you mean about the placebo effect and how it can be a double edged sword.
I often use crystals in my healing work and although I know they do work energetically (as I can feel the difference in someone's energy).....I am quite sure that at times they also work because people believe they will and of course far from the placebo effect being downgraded as it often is...it is in fact a demonstration of the untapped powers of the mind.

'
You have helped me understand the way things have moved on. Last night I used 'Weaver' in Mind Art and it was incredible but when I later tried 'Dreams in the Mind's Eye' using audiostrobe it was mind blowing!.
I really like the contrast between audiostrobe and spectra strobe...I like the way I am able to toggle the colours on the AS and it was really taking my mind to another place alright.
The permutations for this are endless.

Taking into account the dangers if someone was unbeknown epileptic...if utilised at the dentist for example, it would take the patient's mind totally off the discomfort. So many different ways to use it.

Thanks too for that brief explanation of what the different sessions are mostly composed of, very helpful indeed.