Choosing a product.

[jo4]

I'm currently looking for a L/S product, moreso for visualizations/patterns/trance, rather than a longer meditation session. In other words, a quick visual escape, and back to my day.

I've used similar products at concerts/music festivals, and was amazed how quickly and easily I could visualize patterns and become immersed (completely sober by the way). However, I recently had the opportunity to try out a Procyon, and I could not reach that same focus with any of the standard preset sessions. I could sense that I was 'close' but it was out of focus and never quite reached the right frequency to make the patterns come together.

I'm assuming that since I havent had this problem previously that the issue is either the product or the settings. Since I didnt have hours to research and customize settings, I don't know if that is what's required to reach the full potential of the product?

To the question... I see the new Kasina, and it seems great, but I don't want to shell out all that money to find out that Mindplace products simply arent for me, and to look elsewhere like the Laxman or whatever similar products are out there. Any help?

[Andy]

Hello and Welcome!

Just a disclaimer note first... This forum is owned and operated by Mindplace. You will get plenty of help with how to get the best out of MindPlace products, but if you're looking for recommendations on competitor's products, you'll have to look elsewhere.

That being said, I'm pretty sure that with the right sessions and programming, you can get any sort of experience that you've had previously, and with a MindPlace product.

Can you tell us more about what exactly you're looking for?

[CraigT]

There is no reason to believe any other device will offer a substantial advantage. The Procyon is well known for its excellent visuals. Did you try the Procyon under the same conditions as the other devices. Setting and physical state matter a great deal.

No results with any of the preset sessions? That would be a lot of hours of testing. I trust you allowed sufficient time between sessions - flipping hither and yon rarely helps.

The Kasina has a different character, more organic and flowing compared to the very crisp displays of the Procyon.

The only significant feature the Laxman offers over Procyon or Kasina is open-eye use, which will be addressed shortly as several open-eye options are being evaluated.

The Procyon also offers AudioStrobe and the Kasina offers SpectraStrobe making it very easy to create sessions using tools such as Neuroprogrammer, Mind Workstation or any of several other tools. Both devices also have their own synthesizer which can be programmed with device specific editors. The Laxman can only be programmed via its own editor.

I have pretty good collection of devices - I wouldn't be too perturbed if I were left with only a Kasina or a Procyon.

My primary use is altered states.

Cheers,
Craig

[neuroasis]

I would also say that an experience you would have at a music festival... even sober... would be a very different experience from sitting in your easy chair alone at home.. Set and setting as Craig says means a lot. If you heard the same song on your iPod at work would you have the same experience and feelings you had seeing the song played live amongst thousands of enthusiastic fans?

That said, if you really want to find your 'zone' then you are going to want a machine that can be programmed easily by you and for you.. factory sessions are just that, best practices, enjoyable content, etc.

The Procyon can be programmed with a PC editor and a bit of learning. The Proteus can be programmed with a PC editor and also the frequencies can be explored in realtime with the buttons on the machine. The Kasina can be programmed both with an easy editor for simple sessions, or as advanced as you want to go with additional software that Craig mentions.

Hope this helps,
Scott

[jo4]

Thanks for the feedback. Speaking of 'programming easily', the glasses at the music festival had a knob to increase/decrease the speed of the light pulses, which made it very easy to find the right frequency. Is that something that can be done on the fly? Or must it be programmed into the session ahead of time?

[Bambilina]

Sometimes it takes repetition/practice listening to the sessions to get the desired effect, especially for those that can't quiet their mind on cue. Using the Procyon at least every other day for the past 11 days (hopefully my Kasina will come back to me soon), I've been noticing that it is easier to space out in a trance. I've had mine for years but barely used it, partly because I wasn't used to the annoying tones, and I'd get impatient and bored waiting to feel something or for the session to be over (Although the main reason was because I assumed I had to customize sessions to get an effect, and I found the editing software difficult). By sharp contrast, in less than 2 weeks of regular use, I have achieved altered states of consciousness.

This past weekend alone, I tried to test the device to induce specific effects and was very successful:
1) Induce a drowsy state mid day for a couple hours of sleep in preparation for a late night out an hour's drive from home
2) Reverse a late-night club-induced groggy feeling the next day with an energizing session prior to going to a morning cooking class
3) When going back to regular sleep schedule the next night, a Night Voyage session did the trick, not only to get me nice and drowsy for bed, but as an added bonus, I was visualizing weird textures to the patterns, and doing some hypnagogic "tripping" during the session.

I would recommend giving MindPlace's AVS products a chance. Excellent products and customer service. Years of technical experience with respect to the individual devices available in the forums, on which contributors remain very active. If deciding between the Procyon and the new Kasina with respect to being more inviting and visually user-friendly (device operation and software), would give that to the Kasina for now. For the more tech savvy, customization with the Procyon can produce arguably more vivid funky displays. If you want only one device for the visual effects, it might sum it up to ask whether you're more into techno/industrial (Procyon), or trance/ethereal (Kasina). Either device would be a solid AVS choice.

[neuroasis]

The Proteus which also happens to be our cheapest AVS machine at the moment has a mode that allows the user to set the frequency in realtime.. the Kasina gives you the ability to change 'colors' on the fly... and also the Color Organ which is like a light show that reacts to your music.. btw that music is stored internally on a SD card with a built in mp3 player. To get music into our other machines you play from an external device like iPod or iPhone and plug a cable between them.

Hope this helps, anymore questions please ask..

Scott

[jo4]

Does the Kasina have a 'pause' button like the Procyon or Proteus, so freeze the current frequency during a session?

[CraigT]

No, it does not. The nature of MP3 playback effectively precludes that option. It might be possible to implement with the KBS player - maybe something for the wishlist. Right now, in both cases the Pause button stops the playback and pressing again resumes.

Cheers,
Craig

[neuroasis]

The Kasina is a different type of machine than the others in our line. The Kasina has an onboard mp3 player and so the majority of the session content in devoted to sessions containing ambient music, environmental soundscapes, and advanced forms of entrainment files with isochronic pulses, binaural beats, etc... all with pleasant and interesting soundtracks. The lights are controlled by signals embedded in the audio that are exclusive to the Kasina, a new method called SpectraStrobe. SpectraStrobe is what the light and sound community have been wishing for... since the beginning. Full control of 3 Red Green and Blue channels for each eye (6 total channels).. This creates millions of possible color combinations with full control at every level at the time of session creation. Different frequencies per eye, panning color schemes, beautiful flowing washes of alternating smooth fields and flicker. Beyond anything that has been possible up to now. We have only started with this technology and the factory sessions are our first attempts, although tested and developed over a 3 year period.

SpectraStrobe is so promising that the leading software manufacturer Transparent Corporation with their pro level product Mind Workstation fully embraces and implements it. In fact, for Kasina owners, MindWorkstation offers to convert all previous AudioStrobe material to this new format because it is much more powerful.

However, if you have AudioStrobe files already produced, the Kasina plays them back perfectly and in many new ways as well. Search this forum and my blog on here for ColorSets.

On top of that the Kasina includes a mind machine format and free editor for that format. To get you started with it we include the full factory content of our discontinued product the Sirius. So you get another free mind machine included onboard and an easy way to create your own sessions in mere minutes.

Previous machines had only 'beeps' for isochronic tones and sine waves for binaural beats. To mix music with them you would plug in an external sound player like iPod or a computer. All of our machines have AudioStrobe capability but it is limited to controlling only 2 colors for mixing. The Procyon can assign which of those 2 colors are selected among 3 RGB in the glasses.

That is my marketing mode.... now back to your regular programming...

But to answer your question.. it is a different world with the Kasina so it doesn't quite make sense to freeze the session as you would before. If you want a particular frequency or want to test out long ramps to find a good range that you like, then the with the included session editor it is easy to make your own sessions. But for the most fun, enter the world of SpectraStrobe with the free included MuLab generator... but you must learn a few things. Or buy Mind Workstation and really dig in. The less expensive product from them NeuroProgrammer will be supporting SpectraStrobe at any time now.

SpectraStrobe is the future and the Kasina also has a strong bridge to the past.

Hope this helps with your decision,
Scott