any outlines available for programs?

[Quilvis]

Hi All,

What a nice place to post questions!

Does anyone know of any specific "programs" one can do with the Proteus. No, I know that the Proteus comes with programs (duh!) but I mean over weeks, or months. Is there any documentation out there outlining a listening protocol using one or a combination of sessions for a desired outcome (eg better health, better memory)

Also, how much L&S is too much?

Regards

[Andy]

Hi All,

What a nice place to post questions!

Why thank you! And Welcome! We're going to do our best to keep this place friendly and helpful.

I'm sure Marisa or others will chime in with some answers to your questions shortly.

Enjoy!

-Andy.

[Marisa]

Welcome to the forum,

Does anyone know of any specific "programs" one can do with the Proteus.

IMHO, Any program that targets Alpha brain waves would be best over long term. On your Proteus, the main "Alpha" Programs would be: P18, 19, 29 & 34. Of course there many other Alpha combinations you may prefer. If you follow this link you'll find a chart that may help: http://www.ayrmetes.com/Mind_Product...s_sessions.htm

Is there any documentation out there outlining a listening protocol using one or a combination of sessions for a desired outcome (eg better health, better memory)

There are a few books that talk about what the different groups of brain wave frequencies are good for. http://www.ayrmetes.com/Books/books.htm . You can also read some of the articles I have posted on my site on the subject: http://www.ayrmetes.com/Mind_Product..._and_links.htm

Keep in mind that you may not get immediate results or that the results only last a few hours at first. The idea behind a L&S machine is for the machine to coax your brain towards the desired frequencies. The more you use the machine, the more your brain remembers how to get to these states itself. It's similar to a person training their body to perform athletically - the muscles need to get in shape. The muscles need to learn how to move certain ways - with the brain, entrainment works the same way.

The brain, our mind, goes towards what ever we are consciously thinking about. The more we think about something, the more ingrained that thought becomes in our brain. So, the more you think relaxing thoughts, the easier it is to maintain that state. A bit off subject, but it's related.

Also, how much L&S is too much?

There is no thing as too much because these frequencies are present in our brains all the time. Having said that, certain frequencies are dominant (or should be) at certain times (Beta, Alpha during waking; Theta during meditation or presleep; Delta during sleep). When certain frequencies become dominant or reduced inappropriately, problems occur.

Here are some examples:
People with ADD tend to have too much Theta dominating their brain waves instead of Beta, so it goes to reason that they need more Beta training.

A person with Addiction problems tend to not produce enough Alpha, so they should focus on more Alpha oriented programs.

A person who is stressed out, tends to have too much high Beta and needs to use more Alpha/Theta programs.

One thing that I should mention is that you want to be aware of what time of day you are targeting certain brain waves. Specifically, you want to avoid Beta Training at night (because it will likely be difficult to fall asleep) and you want to avoid Delta Training during the day time (because it may make you too sleepy).

You can also use your L&S machine with just the sound. What I frequently do is just use the sound on a Alpha Beta program while I work at my desk. It helps improve concentration and cognitive process.

Hope this helps and please feel free to ask more questions. If you want to talk about other aspects of mind training, go to the section of the form titled "The Mind Place" http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...isplay.php?f=9 and start a conversation.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Marisa

[me0w]

very interesting marisa!! which book(s) were about what brain waves are associated with certain traits/characterstics? eg addiction and less alpha?

and to the original poster, I don't know about any particular 'courses' or 'programs' you can follow however you can have a look at some studies which just did 30minute sessions of a specific block 5 times a week and it produced for example higher averages for university students.

[Marisa]

very interesting marisa!! which book(s) were about what brain waves are associated with certain traits/characterstics? eg addiction and less alpha?

They all mention studies on alcoholism and ADD. Some books go into more detail on certain things than others. All of the books when talking about treatment are talking about Neurofeedback using EEG. The information regarding the brain wave frequencies is still relevant though. I would also say so is the treatment using any of the methods of Neurofeedback.

Quantitative EEG goes into the most detail on ADD, dissociation, addiction and mood disorders - and specific treatment.

A Symphony in the Brain covers more of a range of information on Neurofeedback/Biofeedback/LS and disorders, though it doesn't go into treatment detail like Quant EEG.

Both the above books talk about addictions and Alpha Theta training.

High Performance Mind talks a lot about Wise's work with ADD and probably goes into more of the benefits of Alpha training. This book also goes into meditation and how to use imagery in healing.

Getting Started with Neurofeedback also is quite comprehensive on how the brain and Neurofeedback work. It also goes into a good bit of detail on studies of various ailments and results using Neurofeedback methods.

If you are wondering which book is worth buying, I would say that you could start with "A Symphony in the Brain" because it's the least expensive and is pretty good. High Performance Mind, since it isn't that expensive is also a good buy and worth reading. Getting Started with Neurofeedback - begins to get you into more expensive books ($30) which isn't that bad - depending on what you want the information for. It's a good buy for a professional who is looking to have some good reference material in their library. Quantitative EEG is a really good book but it's also really expensive and unless you are going to be working with the machines on a professional basis (using them in a hypnotherapy practice etc.,) or can write it off as a business expense, I wouldn't spend the money. Sure, you may not get as detailed information elsewhere but you will find the information elsewhere.

Speaking of free information ....

The Clinical Guide to Light and Sound by Thomas Budzynski (one of the leading experts on the subject) is worth reading. You'll find a copy of it, and some other worth while readings on the MindPlace Support Site - Reference Area: http://www.mindplacesupport.com/Reference.htm

Here's a paragraph from Budzinski's work: "Several groups of researchers have studied the phenomenon of decreased alpha energy in alcoholics and even the sons of alcoholics. After an alcohol challenge they are likely to show an increase in the amount of alpha waves. Peniston and Kulkowski note that these findings suggest that at least some persons with a predisposition to the development of alcoholism are characterized by deficient alpha activity. Furthermore, these individuals may be especially vulnerable to alcohol's effects if drinking enables them to attain a reinforcing psychological state associated with increased alpha activity.
...".

On another note and from personal experience ...

I tried L&S on someone who had a crack addiction and the session did take away the cravings to use for several hours after the treatment. I also tried L&S on smokers and it also took away the cravings for a few hours. From this observation, I speculate that if someone with addiction problems were to use the machine frequently, they would stand a better chance of over coming their addiction than without the machine. Of course, that's just my opinion. I would like to see these machines in addiction treatment facilities as part of the treatment for addictions...some day...it will happen.

A friend of mine had a stroke and I got him using the L&S machine right away, every day and a few times a day. He recovered from the stroke fully. Now some of the success should be attributed to the fact that he received medical attention immediately upon having the stroke - which also minimized the damage to his brain. He did have some problems speaking for a few months after the stroke but that has cleared up and he is back to being fluent. He swears that the L&S machine helped.

My dad went for major surgery last year and after the surgery he used the L&S machine and as a result he didn't need as much pain medication and he got out of the hospital ahead of schedule. Again, some of the credit goes to his attitude and strong, healthy body at the time of surgery.

M.

[me0w]

interesting! I have a week off next week I think i'll try to get one of those books!

[Quilvis]

Hi All,

Marisa, thanks for the valuable info.

Also, I know a book that lifetools.com sells (exclusively?) on acheiving results with the Proteus. Click on their Proteus page. I've ordered it, so we'll see how it goes.

Also, I just found out that there /is/ such a thing as too much L&S I made a mistake of listening for a combined total of 8-9 hours over 3 days. ...needless to say, I still have the ringing in my ears!

[Marisa]

Also, I know a book that lifetools.com sells (exclusively?) on achieving results with the Proteus. Click on their Proteus page. I've ordered it, so we'll see how it goes.

Thanks! Let me know what you think when you get it. I'm very interested.

Also, I just found out that there /is/ such a thing as too much L&S I made a mistake of listening for a combined total of 8-9 hours over 3 days. ...needless to say, I still have the ringing in my ears!

LOL I stand corrected - continuous use for three days is now the official definition of "Too much". It stands to reason that anything in excess is likely have unpleasant side effects at the very least. In this case, I'm sure no damage was done, nothing that a little peace and quiet won't fix.

I would like to add that a person really should limit their sessions to an hour or less at a time. You can have several sessions in a day ... though you should space them out.

Thanks for going where no wo/man should go - all in the name of science.

[me0w]

hrmm.. youve got me worried now, i have been using the proteus for hours and hours this week.. although i have seen some positive results, i am wondering what the effects of too much l&s is?

[Marisa]

hrmm.. you've got me worried now, i have been using the Proteus for hours and hours this week.. although i have seen some positive results, i am wondering what the effects of too much l&s is?

Perhaps a headache. Remembering that our brain produces these frequencies naturally, so there really can't be "too much". Though, if you let's say ran a Beta program day and night, you may throw your system off because your brain does need to go into Theta & Delta for processing and rejuvenation.

Continuous flashing lights for hours at a time may make you a little squirrelly ... especially when you come up for daylight.

So I'd say you have nothing to be concerned about.

M.