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Thread: Is the Procyon 'better' (for me) than the Proteus?

  1. Default Is the Procyon 'better' (for me) than the Proteus?

    I HAD intended to buy the Proteus/Thoughtstream together, but now I think I should get the new Procyon (and the PreSage GSR biofeedback device when it's released).

    My intention with the Proteus was to use it to help me learn Photoreading (I've seen instructions for use of the Proteus for just that) as well as all the other brainwave entrainment benefits. Will the Procyon be just as good for that?

    Are there any drawbacks to buying the Procyon instead of the Proteus? I understand that you can't run the Procyon on AC power--it will only run on 3 x AA batteries or when connected with USB to the computer. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    2 things are on my mind respecting ease of use:

    1. Are users of the new Procyon having trouble getting the SynchroMuse to work? I want to be able to play audio (spoken word on CD) synchronised with the lights to accelerate learning of audio, spoken-word information (such as learning long passages from the Bible) without it being difficult to set up or use.

    2. Will the PreSage GSR biofeedback device easily interface with the Procyon without having to go to any trouble (like the Proteus/Throughstream combo requiring a lot of hassle with computer programming, which I know I won't be attempting). i.e., Will I be able to just connect the PreSage to the Procyon and have the biofeedback work together with the Procyon without having to go and get an IT degree?

    I guess the main thing I want to know is that the Procyon will be the better machine to buy, seeing as it will replace the Proteus. ~~thanks~~I value any and all input from everyone!

  2. Default Re: Is the Procyon 'better' (for me) than the Proteus?

    Oh, and we have Windows Vista on our home computer. My brother has a laptop with XP, so would we have to use that to edit software on the Procyon?

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    Default Re: Is the Procyon 'better' (for me) than the Proteus?

    Hi there and welcome to the forum!

    There are some differences between the Proteus and Procyon. First, to run the Procyon off AC is completely possible, you just need a USB AC adapter, the same that are used for iPods and so on. They're available everywhere, for example: http://www.amazon.com/Zip-Linq-Wall-.../dp/B000167V46

    Synchromuse should work fine, but you do have to make the discs yourself, and they do have to be CDs, not MP3s. There is a tutorial at http://www.mindplacesupport.com/Procyon.htm.

    Using the Proteus and Thoughtstream together is quite straightforward, doesn't require computer programming other than going into the Proteus editor program to add ThoughtStream segments. The intention is to make the Procyon/Presage connection as easy as possible. That being said, the PreSage has not yet been released and there is not an ETA yet for it to be released, so if you're looking to get into Biofeedback coupled with S&L soon, you may want to opt for the Proteus/Thoughstream combo.

    Haven't tried the software yet on Vista, so I can't comment on it's compatibility with that software.

    Some users are saying that the lights on the Procyon are lower in intensity than on the Proteus. That is true, but it has no effect on the unit's effectiveness for brain entrainment, it is merely a personal preference some users have for brighter lights. It's something that's noticeable if you compare the two side by side, but not if you are only using one of the devices. The Procyon with the three colors has a much larger range of color combinations than you can get with the Proteus.

    Hopefully some of this information will help you in your decision.

    Sincerely,

    Andy.
    Last edited by Marisa; 06-17-2007 at 07:28 AM.

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    Default Re: Is the Procyon 'better' (for me) than the Proteus?

    Hi Brainbody,

    In addition to Andy's response, I'd like to add a few thoughts of my own on the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by brain body View Post

    My intention with the Proteus was to use it to help me learn Photoreading (I've seen instructions for use of the Proteus for just that) as well as all the other brainwave entrainment benefits. Will the Procyon be just as good for that?
    The Procyon and Proteus do exactly the same thing in terms of brain entrainment. The differences between the two have more to do with added features on the Procyon - for example: Digital interface vs analog, 255 shades of each color vs 15, USB vs RS-232.

    Are there any drawbacks to buying the Procyon instead of the Proteus? I understand that you can't run the Procyon on AC power--it will only run on 3 x AA batteries or when connected with USB to the computer. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
    As Andy mentioned, some people say that the light frames do not go bright enough, though I haven't found this to be the case. Brightness of lights will not affect the entrainment value because it's the frequencies that matter, not the intensity of the lights.

    Because the Proteus has been around longer, there are more user-created programs available. This may or may not matter to you since you can accomplish all that you want with the programs you have. The Procyon editor may be easier to work with than the Proteus editor, though the Proteus editor gives you more options on things you can change - which has it's advantages and disadvantages.


    1. Are users of the new Procyon having trouble getting the SynchroMuse to work? I want to be able to play audio (spoken word on CD) synchronized with the lights to accelerate learning of audio, spoken-word information (such as learning long passages from the Bible) without it being difficult to set up or use.
    One thing to keep in mind with SynchroMuse is that it will synchronize the lights to the rhythm of the voice or music - which won't have any entrainment value because the spoken voice is will not be in the same range of frequencies that you want to target with brain entrainment. To get the effects you want, you will want to run a "learning" program either on the Proteus or Procyon along with your CD. To do this, all you need to do is hook up the Stereo Patch Cord (that comes with both machines) to your machine and CD player.

    2. Will the PreSage GSR biofeedback device easily interface with the Procyon without having to go to any trouble (like the Proteus/ThoughtStream combo requiring a lot of hassle with computer programming, which I know I won't be attempting). i.e., Will I be able to just connect the PreSage to the Procyon and have the biofeedback work together with the Procyon without having to go and get an IT degree?
    The ThoughtStream (biofeedback) is a great tool if you are wanting to gain more body/mind awareness because it gives you the feedback so that you can see and hear when your body is undergoing physiological changes. I've tried the TS and Proteus together and much prefer using the machines separately - but that is just personal preference. I think that for what you are wanting to accomplish, you will be able to do this with just the L&S machine.

    I guess the main thing I want to know is that the Procyon will be the better machine to buy, seeing as it will replace the Proteus. ~~thanks~~I value any and all input from everyone!
    As I mentioned before, both machines will do what you want them to do entrainment wise, the question boils down to features vs cost. It depends on what is important to you feature wise.

    Ask your self the following questions:

    Does my computer have a serial connector? If not, you'd have to buy an adapter if you wanted to use the Proteus. The Procyon comes with USB, which is more modern and easy to use. Connection is important because from time to time we update our systems (both Proteus and Procyon) and you want to be able to connect the machine to your computer. Keeping in mind that many people use their Proteus and have never bothered with the updates. It's not essential but it is handy.

    Do I want brighter lights (Proteus) or more color combinations (Procyon)?

    Is digital or analog audio interface important to me?

    Do I want to be able to use the Ganzfeld feature? Procyon (not available in Proteus).

    Do I want to access frequencies greater than 50 Hz? The Procyon goes up to 75 and the Proteus goes to 50. Will you miss out on not being able to access the higher frequencies? How the higher gamma range affects the brain is still experimental so ...

    I hope this helps with your decision. The important thing to remember is that both machines affect brain waves in the same way - neither is superior in its ability to entrain the mind. Having said that, the blue LED color is said to be better for relaxation and some people like having the blue/green color combination for such things. This is an extra feature with the Procyon. The green LED in the Proteus is also very relaxing and if you opt for the Proteus, you'll still be thrilled by the patterns and colors you get.

    M.
    Last edited by Andy; 06-17-2007 at 12:15 PM. Reason: Correction about Battery/AC with Procyon

  5. Default Re: Is the Procyon 'better' (for me) than the Proteus?

    Dear Marisa and Andy,

    First of all, I HAVE to say I've been very impressed with the whole quality of service with this forum, and the fantastic job you have both done in responding to my questions. I really wasn't expecting to have my questions so easily answered (I'm not used to that!), and thanks to both of you I now know with confidence which machine will best meet my needs (Procyon). It's great to feel so confident buying my first L/S machine because I know you guys, as well as other forum users, will be there to help me where needed. It really does count to people! thanks again to all of you out there.

    May I ask/clarify 4 more things?:

    1. Re. using SynchroMuse (sorry...I tried to use the quotation feature in my reply, but didn't quite get it), you mention that this will synchonize the lights to the rhythm of the voice or music, but that in order to get the brain entrainment effect I would need to run (instead of using SynchroMuse if I understand correctly) a 'learning' program on the Procyon. From an accelerated learning perspective, I'm wondering whether still using the SynchroMuse to create my own CDs of the spoken word (okay, so the lights are now simply in synch with the words I'm hearing...), AND use an external method of BWE (such as the dual-binaural-beat Holosync meditation tapes) would optimise the learning/memorisation of the spoken word. This way I would be able to make use of the lights in synch with the spoken word using SynchroMuse, and have a form of BWE to help learn/memorise them (though I guess I won't be able to determine exactly what sort of level my brainwaves would be in?). I suppose this is very experimental (see what works for you), but how to optimise such learning is something I really want to find out--I hope you can tell me more about that, or maybe refer me elsewhere on the forum?

    2. About playing personal development CDs through the LS machine (the ones designed to effect change automatically at the subconscious level, like Paraliminals and HypnoPeripheral Processing CDs) : Is it okay to listen to ones that have embedded dual binaural beats (i.e. Holosync) through the L/S machine on a 'learning' program, or will that interfere with or somehow counteract what the LS machine is doing?

    3. Will the PreSage biofeedback device have the option of something similar to the current MindGames 1 and 2 that are available with the ThoughtStream? (I imagine so).

    4. Lastly, if one finds the sun quite bright on a sunny day (I'm usually very keen to put on my sunnies!), is that a fair indicator that you may fall into the category of people who don't feel they need the really bright lights (like in the Proteus)? Just wondering...

    Thank you again for all your help,

    Kind regards
    brainbody
    Last edited by brainbody; 06-17-2007 at 07:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Is the Procyon 'better' (for me) than the Proteus?

    Quote Originally Posted by brainbody View Post
    Dear Marisa and Andy,

    First of all, I HAVE to say I've been very impressed with the whole quality of service with this forum, and the fantastic job you have both done in responding to my questions. I really wasn't expecting to have my questions so easily answered (I'm not used to that!), and thanks to both of you I now know with confidence which machine will best meet my needs (Procyon). It's great to feel so confident buying my first L/S machine because I know you guys, as well as other forum users, will be there to help me where needed. It really does count to people! thanks again to all of you out there.
    Gosh, thanks! That is so nice to hear and inspiring. You made my day!


    I tried to use the quotation feature in my reply, but didn't quite get it),
    At the bottom of the screen (right hand side) in any message you want to reply to, you'll see the word "Quote". If you press that button, then the message will be quoted.

    If you want to break up the quote and answer little parts of it, like I have done. You can highlight the section you wanted quoted and press the button at the top of your screen that looks like a caption. It's right under the forward arrow and right beside the "#". You can also type the word " [ q u o t e ] " at the beginning of the sentence you want quoted and " [ / q u o t e ] " at the end (without the extra spaces). Make sure you include the square brackets.

    AND use an external method of BWE (such as the dual-binaural-beat Holosync meditation tapes) would optimize the learning/memorization of the spoken word.
    Something like the Holosync will have the beats embedded in the cd already. I'm not really sure how SynchroMuse would work with this - whether it would sync with the words or the beats. I'll have to look into it further and see how that works and get back to you.

    This way I would be able to make use of the lights in synch with the spoken word using SynchroMuse, and have a form of BWE to help learn/memorize them (though I guess I won't be able to determine exactly what sort of level my brain waves would be in?). I suppose this is very experimental (see what works for you), but how to optimize such learning is something I really want to find out--I hope you can tell me more about that, or maybe refer me elsewhere on the forum?
    The trouble with other Cd's or programs is that we have no way of knowing what frequencies they are targeting as we don't have access to the program. I can tell you what frequencies are in any of our programs because I can look at the program. You may be able to find out by contacting the author of the CD/tape and they should be able to tell you - that is if the CD or tape says that it contains binaural beats, Alpha brain waves etc.

    2. About playing personal development Cd's through the LS machine (the ones designed to effect change automatically at the subconscious level, like Paraliminals and HypnoPeripheral Processing CDs) : Is it okay to listen to ones that have embedded dual binaural beats (i.e. Holosync) through the L/S machine on a 'learning' program, or will that interfere with or somehow counteract what the LS machine is doing?
    If the cd or tape you are listening to already have beats embedded, then you likely won't get optimal results by "over riding" it with a program of your own. That would be where synchromuse would work well. Embedded dual BBs are not as effective as single BBs. The subliminal Cds don't really work that well either, no more than the suggestion that they are subliminal and the placebo effect which would result from you thinking that it had an embedded message. Sleep learning is also unreliable because in order for it to work, you could only go into a light sleep (Theta) in order to be receptive.

    Do you already have a cd that you want to work with?


    3. Will the PreSage biofeedback device have the option of something similar to the current MindGames 1 and 2 that are available with the ThoughtStream? (I imagine so).
    No. Although I'm not sure what the software will contain, I know that it will not be like Mental Games. I don't know if it will be compatible with Mental Games. I really don't have any information on the software at the moment as I believe it is still under development. It may be "open source" so that someone can write a cool program or two.

    4. Lastly, if one finds the sun quite bright on a sunny day (I'm usually very keen to put on my sunnies!), is that a fair indicator that you may fall into the category of people who don't feel they need the really bright lights (like in the Proteus)? Just wondering...
    No one "needs" the bright lights for the machine to work, some people just like it cranked up. Most people find the lights too bright and turn them down. It is a small percentage that want them turned up bright. I don't think this will be an issue with you, especially for what you want the machine for. You'll want to use the machine in a darkened room to get the best effects.

    If you have any more questions, please feel free to continue to ask. This is exactly what this forum is here for. I'll see what I can find out regarding the SynchroMuse - it may take a few days for me to get a reply to you though.

    M.
    Last edited by Andy; 06-19-2007 at 04:04 AM.

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