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Thread: Surface / Depth viewing

  1. #1

    Question Surface / Depth viewing

    Hello everyone!

    I've watched the "Kasina review on 'The Unearthly Hour'" (more than once). At 4:12 Carrie Searley is talking about two different methods of viewing sessions: "Surface or Depth viewing". I've Never heard or read about that before. What is she talking about? Could someone "enlighten" me please?
    Thanks in advance!

    Greetings,
    Kasina-User

  2. #2

    Default Re: Surface / Depth viewing

    i think Scott's post has answer for you.

    See here: http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...Unearthly-Hour

    Quote Originally Posted by neuroasis
    Great review video Carrie!

    It is impossible to say what any given person will see during an AVS session. A lot depends upon your ability to visualize and your 'mental inventory' of images. For instance, I have done a lot of work with computer graphics and animation, i.e. fractals, mandalas, sacred geometry, etc. So it is very easy for me to visualize these things during a session. I find that the less I 'try to see' (surface perception), the more I 'do see' (depth perception).

    I believe that people can enhance their AVS visualization by watching animations like the Four Elements DVD from MindPlace or the huge number of trippy videos on YouTube. For some people it would require a little more work than for others.

    Again, Carrie, awesome job!

    Scott

  3. #3

    Default Re: Surface / Depth viewing

    Thank you mctxp for your answer! I see what you mean.

    My first thought was, that it has something to do with the focus of the eyes. So I experimented with it, shifted the focus "back and forward":
    First I put the focus on the inner side of my eyelids (I lightly squinted with closed eyes), then I tried to shift the focus on something "far away" - like as I would stare on an (unvisible) horizon.
    And yes, there was a slight difference how I perceived the lights and their flickering.

    Maybe someone else have experienced something similar?

    Greetings,
    a Kasina-User

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Surface / Depth viewing

    Hello,
    When I speak of 'surface' vs. 'depth' perception what I mean is a phenomena that I have noticed when using AVS (and other forms of seeing). Surface perception refers to actively looking at the lights behind closed eyes. You are mostly at full awareness and enjoying the show so to speak. It also has an analytical component where you are studying them somewhat. Depth perception is when you look beyond the lights and their patterns. You are no longer looking at them as much as you are experiencing them. The analytical mind is not engaged in this state, or not nearly so.

    I have also noticed that depth perception can open up inner landscapes and visions, whereas surface perception is more the place of 'geometry' and patterns. After using AVS for a while and practicing you can move between these 2 perceptions consciously, or if you didn't mean to, at least you can tell which mode is most active. BTW, it is not as if one is better than the other, but many people do seem to get stuck at surface perception it seems from comments I have read.

    One exercise that really helps to get a firm grasp of the concept is to practice viewing the stereogram 'Mind's Eye' illusions that were popular in the 90's. The concept is somewhat similar but of course it is an inner technique and you are not crossing your eyes or any physical manipulation at all. Looking at these optical illusions does help you to be aware of shifting depth perceptions.

    Hope this helps,
    Scott
    If you know something I don't, speak up! If maybe I know something you don't, ask away!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Surface / Depth viewing

    I have the same experience Scott
    For me there are two ways to enjoy a session wether I listen and look very analytical and conciously to the music
    and spectra (Most time the first part of a Session is like this) and then I somewhat let go all of it and everything merges into
    one experience no more thinking seeing or listening just "beeing".This is actually my favorite state in a Session where sometimes
    also visions happen.Therefor I think a Session has to have a certain length so one can enjoy this second part at least for about 20 minutes.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Surface / Depth viewing

    Thalassa you are correct that it does take a bit of time to settle into the state of mind required to let go. Practice does help to shorten this period somewhat but generally a 20 minute session is about right. Around the 8 to 12 minute mark is where the 'drop off' starts for me on good days.

    I have found that if I enter this state very deeply then beyond 20 minutes doesn't even matter. One's awareness of time shifts, so 45 minutes, an hour.. etc. is not as much 'work' as when you were using surface perception. Sessions like this are better long than short as it is startling to end the session too quickly. I have been deep enough several times when I didn't even notice the session ending right away. Really in a half state of sleep then... usually though I do notice.

    The normal limit for me is about 90 minutes as I notice that around this time, no matter how deep I was, I become body aware again and feel the need to shift positions, or stop the session or start a new one. It is interesting that this coincides with the length of sleep cycles too.

    I have developed some ideas of sessions that are 'pickup' sessions and sessions that are 'payload' sessions. The Procyon works well for this where you can shift to a different session without too much effort. I have even toyed with Synchromuse trigger buttons that I can quickly jump to sessions with. More on this later.

    One thing I want to mention too is that animated stereograms are interesting to build the skill of keeping perception fixed. There is something about shifting your perception and learning to relax into it and hold it, then when it drifts, pick it right back up. You also become aware of cyclic shifts of perception and learn to not be concerned with these and it doesn't pop you back into surface awareness.

    Here are some on YouTube but not very high resolution: http://www.netaxs.com/~mhmyers/rds-anim.html . I'm sure there are tons more.

    Scott
    If you know something I don't, speak up! If maybe I know something you don't, ask away!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Surface / Depth viewing

    Wow I love these 3D Stereograms I had a poster back in the 90's did not know that they exist in an animatet form. great thanks for the hint Scott

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    Default Re: Surface / Depth viewing

    They are cool, huh.. It also occurs to me that the original poster had a daughter he is working with for ADHD. These animated stereograms are a great way to train attention and focus. I need to Google to see if anyone has done this.

    I think generally AVS sessions are good to teach one to relax, be calm and focus. Frequencies can of course be optimized. Do be aware OP that high beta frequencies are contraindicated for pre-teens. A good rule of thumb is to avoid long exposures and stay below/around about say 13 - 15 hz. None of the Kasina sessions have long segments of these beside maybe some of the Accelerate ones. The Sirius KBS sessions do though. It may not be an issue with your son specifically, but it is good to be aware.
    Last edited by neuroasis; 04-21-2014 at 06:42 PM.
    If you know something I don't, speak up! If maybe I know something you don't, ask away!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Surface / Depth viewing

    Those random dot stereograms were/are fascinating, and very popular back in the 90s. Back when we had that 21 channel Lexicore EEG at our disposal, we connected a couple of us up, and alternated between normal and 'stereogram' vision. Pretty much every time the stereogram popped into focus, theta increased quite a lot. It would be interesting to see how common this effect might be...

    -Robert

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Surface / Depth viewing

    That is cool Robert. These were sold only as novelties but I have always felt there was more to be learned from them. Did you notice any hemispheric synchronization? And being a 21 channel system, what areas beside the occipital lobe were engaged?
    If you know something I don't, speak up! If maybe I know something you don't, ask away!

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