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Thread: Len Ochs Protocol

  1. #1

    Default Len Ochs Protocol

    Hi All.

    My first post on this lovely bubbly forum! Looking forward to chatting with you all and hopefully find some answers along the way. Seems like a really friendly place!

    Firstly a bit of an introduction. I'm from the UK and have been interested in brain wave entrainment/biofeedback/neurofeedback for some time (on and off). I purchased a Procyon over the weekend and I will be picking it up this morning

    To cut a long story shortish. I went through some childhood stuff and it probably pushed me into several bad habits including inability to be present and being disconnected from my emotions. During uni I lost the plot a bit and got into recreational drugs like mdma & ecstasy. I'm 37 now and since becoming a father (2 year old girl!) i've grown a fair bit in the some departments I was lacking in (I still feel like I can do a lot better). I still suffer from mental fog/attention issues and my memory is akin to someone with dementia. I have been pretty much getting by at work but have never excelled. I'm not sure when the memory/attention issues started but they probably began during my escapist clubbing days at uni! Ho hum :S

    Anyhoo... I played with neurofeedback about 10 years ago but didn't have much success getting the equipment to be consistent. I got into binaural beats but didn't find them effective for what I thought I needed (beta?). Not sure why, but it felt like the beats weren't strong/effective enough or maybe my brain just got bored lol A couple of years back I got into mindfulness meditation and it was quite profound. It's changed my life a in many ways but I still don't think i'm hitting the depth that I am capable of hitting. So.... I thought I'd try AVS, and I stumbled on this website! After researching the tool more I've come to the conclusion that there is a lot of potential here, mainly because of the potency of vision + audio vs just audio for entrainment. Plus the ability to add affirmations takes it to a whole new level

    I watched some of the videos you have uploaded onto youtube. I found the Prof Len Ochs and Dr Julian Isaacs presentations particularly interesting... Specifically Len Ochs in his 3rd video at 4:21 talks about a protocol that he has used which involved AVS and neurofeedback to resolve issues in people with head trauma (plus a whole host of other problems). The protocol, he says, is simply "I don't try to speed the brainwaves up or I don't try to speed them down. What I do is I alternately speed the brainwaves up, slow them down..." repeat... He says that when the brain goes through trauma, it secretes chemicals to protect itself in the short term, but the chemicals effect the brain function in the longer term too. Then brain frequency becomes restricted and less pliable. I'm hoping that this is the problem I've got and that the trauma I have caused to myself *may* be repairable.

    Has anyone else heard of Prof Ochs protocol? Does anyone know of any sessions that are available which follow this 'up/down' protocol? I believe that one cycle (up > down) is very short at only 1 minute. Is this short cycle advisable? Any idea on how to do the the frequency sweeps? I.e.

    Down (1min) 22Hz > 8Hz
    Up (1min) 8Hz > 22Hz

    Any thoughts on the protocol or any other suggestions are whole heartedly welcomed!!!

    Big love,
    Sunny

  2. Default Re: Len Ochs Protocol

    I have created a protocol for creating plasticity in the brain using that concept. You will need Mind Workstation Professional and the Emotiv Epoc headset. This might seem like a hefty investment, but as I am sure you know, it is a drop in the bucket compared to what doctors charge for neurofeedback sessions. More info can be found here http://www.mindupdate.com/2011/12/ne...city-protocol/

  3. #3

    Default Re: Len Ochs Protocol

    Greetings! We built some prototypes using a modified Ochs protocol (which is intended to increase EEG flexibility) for a couple Dept of Education SBIR grant studies back in the mid 90s. Single channel EEG (frontal electrode) and the range was 13-22 Hz; the system measured EEG amplitudes via FFT and would stimulate 1 Hz above the dominent frequency for 1 min, then 1 Hz below, the next, for 22 minutes (as I recall). The test group in the first study had up to 10 IQ point gains (verbal), which remained when we re-tested them in phase II, 16 months later. Earlier studies with just light and sound using a 12/18 Hz protocol (Procyon sessions 7 and 8) gained 6 IQ points on average. Both studies were of teenagers, mainly boys, with ADHD. In general, stimulation in the 13-22 Hz band can help lift the fog... be sure to use your new Procyon at least 20 min or so a day, and give it at least 20-30 sessions to see what effects it might be having on your memory, concentration, etc. One recent study suggests that 10 Hz alpha visual stim can boost memory in the elderly, while a large Italian study showed that 10-13 Hz ramping can do the same (in the elderly). Since you're not elderly, try the beta stim first... :-)

    Enjoy your Procyon!

    -Robert

  4. #4

    Default Re: Len Ochs Protocol

    Quote Originally Posted by brewmasher View Post
    I have created a protocol for creating plasticity in the brain using that concept. You will need Mind Workstation Professional and the Emotiv Epoc headset. This might seem like a hefty investment, but as I am sure you know, it is a drop in the bucket compared to what doctors charge for neurofeedback sessions. More info can be found here http://www.mindupdate.com/2011/12/ne...city-protocol/
    Hi Brewmasher,

    That looks amazing! I've actually got a mind tuner 2 channel eeg which I bought years back but couldn't get it to work, think I had bioexplorer software. The Epoc looks like it's light years ahead! Thanks a bunch for copying your work and the Olmstead study in, that's exactly the kind of information I've been looking for. Unfortunately my budget can't withstand another hit for the next couple of months and so I was hoping on creating a program just based on Procyon (for now)...

    I had a flick through the Olmstead dissertation you mentioned and it doesn't look like an EEG was used in that? I assume you were trying to increase the efficacy of your implementation by using an EEG, like Len Ochs? Do you think I can achieve similar results without EEG? Do you mind if I ask about the success of your implementation?

    For easy ref, this is what I dug out from the Olmstead study:

    The AVS system consisted of the Pro Tutor device, headphones, white full spectrum eyeglasses, and a
    cassette or CD player with a selection of Walt Disney story soundtracks. The Pro Tutor device was set at
    50% to full intensity in both light and sound controls depending on participant comfort level. A
    microchip was programed by this investigator to activate and control the frequency of the flickering
    lights and tones, which begin at 14 Hz and increased every 5 minutes to achieve 40 Hz The alternating
    program began at 40 Hz and decreased every 5 minutes until it reached 14 Hz. The AVS sessions were
    alternated from a 35-minute Excitatory Program (14 Hz increasing to 40 Hz) to a 35-minute Inhibitory
    Program (40 Hz To 14 Hz).


    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Austin View Post
    Greetings! We built some prototypes using a modified Ochs protocol (which is intended to increase EEG flexibility) for a couple Dept of Education SBIR grant studies back in the mid 90s. Single channel EEG (frontal electrode) and the range was 13-22 Hz; the system measured EEG amplitudes via FFT and would stimulate 1 Hz above the dominent frequency for 1 min, then 1 Hz below, the next, for 22 minutes (as I recall). The test group in the first study had up to 10 IQ point gains (verbal), which remained when we re-tested them in phase II, 16 months later. Earlier studies with just light and sound using a 12/18 Hz protocol (Procyon sessions 7 and 8) gained 6 IQ points on average. Both studies were of teenagers, mainly boys, with ADHD. In general, stimulation in the 13-22 Hz band can help lift the fog... be sure to use your new Procyon at least 20 min or so a day, and give it at least 20-30 sessions to see what effects it might be having on your memory, concentration, etc. One recent study suggests that 10 Hz alpha visual stim can boost memory in the elderly, while a large Italian study showed that 10-13 Hz ramping can do the same (in the elderly). Since you're not elderly, try the beta stim first... :-)
    Great info in there, thanks Robert! So... this has got me questioning my plan a bit as I'm thrown by the protocol you mention.

    "stimulate 1 Hz above the dominent frequency for 1 min, then 1 Hz below, the next (frequency?), for 22 minutes"

    How do I know what my dominant frequency(s)? is, would I need EEG to check what it is at the time? Would I be ramping to 1hz above/below dominant frequency slowly or jumping straight there? Also, Olmsted mention having separate excitatory and inhibitory sessions with 1 x 35min excitatory and 1 x 35min inhibitory session per week. Would doing excitatory 12-22hz and inhibitory 22-12hz for 20/40mins per day be too much for my little brain ?

    Sunny

  5. #5

    Default Re: Len Ochs Protocol

    This is an EEG controlled AVS feedback loop, so the dominant frequency within this range of FFT frequency bins (1 Hz wide in these studies) is changing from moment to moment. As Brewmasher has helpfully pointed out, you can use Mind Workstation to integrate various biofeedback devices with your Procyon (Enterprise edition needed in some cases). But that introduces another layer of complexity and cost at this stage, so you can get started with your Procyon (and Procyon Editor), creating your own Olmstead variant session, in the 13-22 Hz range up and down as you suggested. I think five minutes for each step is too long, in part because the steps between frequencies would need to be large to fit the number of minutes in the session. Some studies have shown that alpha can be entrained in a matter of a few seconds, while others require more time (and multiple sessions). Half a minute to a minute for each step would be a good place to start, so in the above case, about 1 minute and 0.5 Hz steps for a roughly 20 minute session.

    Since there have been a relatively small number of studies of the effects of AVS, the number of experimental protocols have been limited. It's tempting to think that if a given protocol provided a good result, that means the protocol is special. But only a limited set of protocols have been tested in anything approaching a clinical setting, so there is a large field of possible improvements to those protocols, or complete alternatives to them. For example, the late Dr. Thomas Budzynski-a key figure in the history of AVS research-was working with a randomized version of this stimulation approach which he called 'Brain Brightening', with promising results, when he passed away.
    This used the same 13-22 Hz band, but the random stimulation was intended to increase overall SMR/beta activity, rather than flexibility (Ochs, Russell), or vary the level of EEG activation (Olmstead, others). My point again is that there is still room for a lot of experimentation in this fascinating field. We'd be delighted if you kept us all posted on your progress!

    -Robert


    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyd76 View Post
    Hi Brewmasher,

    That looks amazing! I've actually got a mind tuner 2 channel eeg which I bought years back but couldn't get it to work, think I had bioexplorer software. The Epoc looks like it's light years ahead! Thanks a bunch for copying your work and the Olmstead study in, that's exactly the kind of information I've been looking for. Unfortunately my budget can't withstand another hit for the next couple of months and so I was hoping on creating a program just based on Procyon (for now)...

    I had a flick through the Olmstead dissertation you mentioned and it doesn't look like an EEG was used in that? I assume you were trying to increase the efficacy of your implementation by using an EEG, like Len Ochs? Do you think I can achieve similar results without EEG? Do you mind if I ask about the success of your implementation?

    For easy ref, this is what I dug out from the Olmstead study:

    The AVS system consisted of the Pro Tutor device, headphones, white full spectrum eyeglasses, and a
    cassette or CD player with a selection of Walt Disney story soundtracks. The Pro Tutor device was set at
    50% to full intensity in both light and sound controls depending on participant comfort level. A
    microchip was programed by this investigator to activate and control the frequency of the flickering
    lights and tones, which begin at 14 Hz and increased every 5 minutes to achieve 40 Hz The alternating
    program began at 40 Hz and decreased every 5 minutes until it reached 14 Hz. The AVS sessions were
    alternated from a 35-minute Excitatory Program (14 Hz increasing to 40 Hz) to a 35-minute Inhibitory
    Program (40 Hz To 14 Hz).




    Great info in there, thanks Robert! So... this has got me questioning my plan a bit as I'm thrown by the protocol you mention.

    "stimulate 1 Hz above the dominent frequency for 1 min, then 1 Hz below, the next (frequency?), for 22 minutes"

    How do I know what my dominant frequency(s)? is, would I need EEG to check what it is at the time? Would I be ramping to 1hz above/below dominant frequency slowly or jumping straight there? Also, Olmsted mention having separate excitatory and inhibitory sessions with 1 x 35min excitatory and 1 x 35min inhibitory session per week. Would doing excitatory 12-22hz and inhibitory 22-12hz for 20/40mins per day be too much for my little brain ?

    Sunny

  6. #6

    Default Re: Len Ochs Protocol

    Thanks for getting back to me so quickly (and sorting out my verified status!)

    Ahh yes, I saw the Brain Brightening session in the sessions area. Looks like a decent alternative!

    So for the Olmstead protocol would you just create a single section/ramp from 13 to 22hz or would you do it in multiple sections (not sure if section is the right term!)

  7. Default Re: Len Ochs Protocol

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyd76 View Post
    Hi Brewmasher,

    That looks amazing! I've actually got a mind tuner 2 channel eeg which I bought years back but couldn't get it to work, think I had bioexplorer software. The Epoc looks like it's light years ahead! Thanks a bunch for copying your work and the Olmstead study in, that's exactly the kind of information I've been looking for. Unfortunately my budget can't withstand another hit for the next couple of months and so I was hoping on creating a program just based on Procyon (for now)...

    I had a flick through the Olmstead dissertation you mentioned and it doesn't look like an EEG was used in that? I assume you were trying to increase the efficacy of your implementation by using an EEG, like Len Ochs? Do you think I can achieve similar results without EEG? Do you mind if I ask about the success of your implementation?

    For easy ref, this is what I dug out from the Olmstead study:

    The AVS system consisted of the Pro Tutor device, headphones, white full spectrum eyeglasses, and a
    cassette or CD player with a selection of Walt Disney story soundtracks. The Pro Tutor device was set at
    50% to full intensity in both light and sound controls depending on participant comfort level. A
    microchip was programed by this investigator to activate and control the frequency of the flickering
    lights and tones, which begin at 14 Hz and increased every 5 minutes to achieve 40 Hz The alternating
    program began at 40 Hz and decreased every 5 minutes until it reached 14 Hz. The AVS sessions were
    alternated from a 35-minute Excitatory Program (14 Hz increasing to 40 Hz) to a 35-minute Inhibitory
    Program (40 Hz To 14 Hz).
    Neuroprogrammer 3 has a session cloning the Olmstead protocol. You can download a free trial here http://www.ayrmetes.com/NP3.html. The session is the gamma session found in the General Brainwave folder. This is the Excite session. The Inhibit session follows the same pattern, only reversed from 40Hz to 15Hz I expanded it by starting at delta frequencies and using EEG driving 1 Hz above for the Excite session, and 1 Hz below for the inhibit.

    I have also created a protocol for NP3 that can be used with the Procyon and Thoughtstream for those without an EEG device. If your interested, let me know and I will send you a copy.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Len Ochs Protocol

    Hi Brewmasher. Thanks for the info. I would love to try out your procyon protocol (I'll PM you my email). I'm just looking for some success and i will be on the road to justify a bigger purchase of NP3 and the Emotiv Epoc. Btw, you mentioned in your first post that your Emotiv Epoc based protocol requires Mind Manager. Does it also work with NP3?

    Thanks
    Sunny

  9. Default Re: Len Ochs Protocol

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyd76 View Post
    Hi Brewmasher. Thanks for the info. I would love to try out your procyon protocol (I'll PM you my email). I'm just looking for some success and i will be on the road to justify a bigger purchase of NP3 and the Emotiv Epoc. Btw, you mentioned in your first post that your Emotiv Epoc based protocol requires Mind Manager. Does it also work with NP3?

    Thanks
    Sunny
    The Epoc sessions require Mind Workstation, which the Transparent software for professionals and therapists. You can download a free trial from the same site given earlier. It is quite a bit more than NP3, but Transparent will upgrade you if you want to try NP3 first.

    I will email you the sessions. They will be NP3 sessions, so you will have to have the software (the trial version will work) to open them.

  10. Default Re: Len Ochs Protocol

    Many thanks!

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