Achieving a hypnotic state

I have had my proteus unit for about a year and use it religiously.

Every day I combine a session of about 35 minutes time with a hypnotic
compilation I created ( a cassette tape on memory improvement with soothing brainage type meditation music mixed into the final mp3).

My ritual consist of lying down in bed with the proteus and the mp3, hoping I'll achieve a state condusive to the hypnotic suggestions.

I have tried many proteus relaxation programs, I am currently using pr 47.

If anyone has any ideas on how to aid in drifting off into an altered suggestive state, please chime in.

I am of the opinion that sessions that have a lot of deviation distract from achieving a suggestive state.

Thanks in advance,
Dave

Hi Dave,

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Originally Posted by EvilDave

I have had my proteus unit for about a year and use it religiously.

Every day I combine a session of about 35 minutes time with a hypnotic
compilation I created ( a cassette tape on memory improvement with soothing brainage type meditation music mixed into the final mp3).

My ritual consist of lying down in bed with the proteus and the mp3, hoping I'll achieve a state condusive to the hypnotic suggestions.

I have tried many proteus relaxation programs, I am currently using pr 47.

If anyone has any ideas on how to aid in drifting off into an altered suggestive state, please chime in.

I am of the opinion that sessions that have a lot of deviation distract from achieving a suggestive state.

Thanks in advance,
Dave

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You are most suggestible when you are either in a Theta state or a very emotional state. First thing in the morning or just before you are about to fall asleep are two times when it's easiest to give your self suggestions. I think that this kind of a session wouldn't be practical first thing in the morning but may work really well, just as you are about to fall asleep.

The suggestions should be stated in positive language and should be simple. Something like "each and every day, my memory improves in every way".

Program 47 is a mixture of theta & delta. On one hand, it could work really well because it takes you deep into a theta state but if it takes you too deep where you fall asleep, then the suggestion won't really take hold. The MindLab learn programs are essentially the same as the Deep rest programs except they ramp up at the end to wake you up. Just in case you don't want to be groggy after the session, which I assume would happen after P47 ... unless you go right to sleep after.

Then again, maybe your memory isn't where you'd like it to be because your brain is a bit sluggish and really needs some SMR/Beta training. It may be worth a try.

Sometimes suggestion alone isn't enough to help improve the memory. Just to complicate things, ha ha , there are many factors that can impede memory. Things such as stress, not enough Amino Acids (nutrition) and how you work (store and retrieve) your memory are some of the main areas to consider. If you have lots of stress, once you deal with that, your memory should improve. Certain supplements really make a difference for memory and cognitive function (amino acids especially), exercise - believe it or not (has to do with blood flow, you can't remember if you don't get enough blood in your brain - so alcohol consumption, drugs, cigarettes and that sort of thing are another consideration).

The memory is also associated with other cognitive function so you may also benefit from doing some brain exercises that target memory.

There's more but I don't want to overwhelm you with info since you were just asking about Proteus programs and suggestibility. :)

M.

Marisa:

Thanks for the reply.

The hypnosis cassette tape I'm using is called "Memory Improvement" by
a company called "Potentials Unlimited", I bought this tape about 30 years
ago and have since converted it to mp3 and mixed in a bit of brainage relaxation music.

The hypnotist on the tape is Barrie Konicov and he seems to be quite proficient.

My memory has definitely improved since I have been using this tape and the proteus, but I feel I would benefit more if I was to find a proteus program that stimulates a calm suggestive state.

The reason I chose pr 47 is because it does not jump all over the place,
I originally downloaded one of the programs you posted, that you named trance, but, I found that it moved through to many frequencies, and I found it to be to distracting.

Thanks for your help,

Dave

Hi Dave,

I get it now. :)

What about modifying one of the Proteus programs to suite your needs better? Have you used the Proteus Editor at all? It can be a bit complicated if you haven't. If you are feeling adventurous and want to tweak one of the programs - aim for something that ranges between 4 to 7 Hz.

What is it about P47 that you would like to see changed?

M.

Marisa:

I have used the editor, the manual is well written and have no problems
adjusting any of the programs or creating a new one, the trick is finding
one that will achieve a desired result.

Here is my basic quest, when I first started using the hypnotic tape without the proteus, I would experience a muscular release around the abdomen at the same point in the tape all the time, I deemed this to be sign that I was in a hyper relaxed state and open to the suggestions.

Now that I use the proteus in conjunction with the tape I no longer get this sensation and would like to find a way to induce a more relaxed state via proteus program.

I have searched the internet reading anything I could find on self hypnosis with aids of units like the proteus and their just seems to be nothing of substance written.

Searching google for hypnosis via light machines, just brings you to sites that sell similar products to the proteus that claim to have programs that induce a hypnotic state, but, their is nothing of substance that backs it up when you read into the literature within the site.


I have read some of the posts on the forum and am aware of what frequencies are claimed to induce a relaxed hypnotic state, but, I would have thought that someone would have conquered this feat by now.

I would have also have thought the makers of the unit would have designed a program for this purpose.

Hopefully I'll get off my ass and experiment with the editor and design one, and post it myself.

Thanks again for listening to my ramblings,

Dave

Dave,

I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly:

You are wanting to use entrainment to increase your susceptibility to hypnosis so that you can use a hypnosis tape to improve your memory.

If I am understanding you correctly, you could leave out the whole hypnosis bit and go straight to SMR/Beta entrainment to improve memory and mental acuity.

Cheers,
Craig

Craig:

Your comprehension of my post is dead on, and I will investigate SMR/Entrainment, however, I still believe a regiment of positive reinforcement combined with the use of a self hypnotic tape
(in a suggestive physical state), is the way to go.

Can you recommend a session? Proteus's original sessions do not contain anything dwelling in the 12-15hz area for 15 minutes, I believe this is the area for SMR/Entrainment.

I could easily design one using the editor.

Have you any suggestions on the appropriate audio frequencies to be tied to the light frequencies, i.e.

4 minutes 12hz accompanied with 300 audio pitch
2 minutes 13hz accompanied with 340 audio pitch
2 minutes 14hz accompanied with 380 audio pitch
3 minutes 15hz accompanied with 400 audio pitch
4 minutes 12hz accompanied with 300 audio pitch

(Recent addition to post)

I have composed a session based on my recent, limited studies, on SMR.
Contained in the attached zip file you find a screen shot of the parameters, as well as the actual session.

I make no claims to its effectiveness since I have limited knowledge of the
parameters necessary for SMR/Entrainment.

(Joke-not serious)

I was able to re-align my molecular structure and pass through solid matter
after just two session, however, re-aligning was quite exhaustive and I would not recommend attempting this!!!

(Joke-not serious)

Craig any direction will be much appreciated,
as are any positive responses.

Thanks in advance,
Dave

Dave,

At present I don't have a Proteus and know pretty much nothing about its sessions. Marisa is the expert on picking the right sessions :)

Anything equivalent to the Procyon 'Attention Booster' session would be fine - working through 12-18Hz. The session you've listed looks fine, except that I'd spend longer at target frequencies and use ramps between them. It's supposed to take about six minutes for entrainment to occur, I like to allow at least 10. Using ramps seems to increase the likelihood of 'snagging' an existing dominant brainwave and drawing it towards the target (no proof, just an impression).

I certainly encourage you to continue with your present regime - any technique that delivers pleasing results without harm is a good technique.

Cheers,
Craig

Hi Evil One er Evil Dave :icon_twisted: :icon_wink:

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Originally Posted by EvilDave

Marisa:
Here is my basic quest, when I first started using the hypnotic tape without the Proteus, I would experience a muscular release around the abdomen at the same point in the tape all the time, I deemed this to be sign that I was in a hyper relaxed state and open to the suggestions.

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Ah, a quest ... what fun! :eusa_dance:

First, that sensation may have been only one indication of a suggestible state. It's possible that it was an indication of your abdomen relaxing and nothing more. It's very, very likely that you are entering into the trace state anyway even though you do not get the sensation. You may have tricked your brain into thinking that it needs this sensation in order to be suggestible and please know, it's not true.

I think we can get you back there easy enough. If you are willing to do some experimentation, we may get you closer to a solution

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Now that I use the Proteus in conjunction with the tape I no longer get this sensation and would like to find a way to induce a more relaxed state via Proteus program.

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I wonder if you tried the CD now, without the Proteus, if you would get that feeling once again. It may be one way to test whether or not the Proteus programs are responsible for the absence of this feeling. Please try it, it would be interesting to know.

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I have searched the internet reading anything I could find on self hypnosis with aids of units like the Proteus and their just seems to be nothing of substance written.

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Although many hypnotherapists use AVS to help induce a hypnotic state, you are correct, there isn't much written on it or self hypnosis. Essentially the information on self-hypnosis and hypnosis is going to be the same. The state of mind is the same regardless of who does the inducing and suggestions.

I'm a Certified Master Hypnotherapist and Certified Master Practitioner in NLP (which has lots to do with hypnosis, suggestibility etc.) so perhaps somewhere in my studies I have come across the information you seek. So please feel free to ask any questions regarding the subject. I don't know everything ...go figure ... but who know, I may be able to help you find some answers. :)

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Searching google for hypnosis via light machines, just brings you to sites that sell similar products to the proteus that claim to have programs that induce a hypnotic state, but, their is nothing of substance that backs it up when you read into the literature within the site.

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A hypnotic state is nothing more that a relaxed state where the focus is either intensely on something (such as a movie, or the road) or the focus is on something internal (like thoughts, feelings).

There are different levels of depth in hypnotic states. A light hypnotic state would be something like you are getting lectured by someone and your mind drifts somewhere else and you don't hear a word they are saying. A deeper state of hypnosis would be like that feeling you have just before you fall asleep, your muscles are relaxed, you don't want to move and your mind easily drifts off.

These states have been measured on an EEG and they fall within the Alpha/Theta region of frequencies. Which particular frequency works best will not be the same with each person which is why most programs will vary the range of frequencies used. What works for one person, may not work for another.

Also, if you subject someone to one or two frequencies repeatedly, the effect of them will diminish. They won't work as good. This is called "habitation".

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I have read some of the posts on the forum and am aware of what frequencies are claimed to induce a relaxed hypnotic state, but, I would have thought that someone would have conquered this feat by now.

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It's not an exact science, there are too many factors that could interfere with the results.

Entrainment involves coaxing the brain waves into a state ... because it's a coax, not a hammer - it may not always work. The brain just may not want to go there. Just like hypnosis, some people are easily hypnotized and others never manage to achieve that state. Note: Something like brainwashing is a "hammer" in that the person is forced into a suggestive state.

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I would have also have thought the makers of the unit would have designed a program for this purpose.

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Ah but they did, it's just not working for you as you want it to.

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Hopefully I'll get off my ass and experiment with the editor and design one, and post it myself.

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I may be able to help you with that. If you tell me what you do and don't like about P 47, perhaps I can make a few adjustments and you'll have what you want.

I'm guessing that your goal is to get into a deep state. The reason you want to get into a deep state is so that you can use self hypnosis to improve your memory - right?

Next, the way that you know you are in a deep state is by a feeling of relaxation of your muscles, particularly in your abdomen region? Is there any other indication that you can think of the state you want - such as muscle heaviness, feeling like your body is either weightless or very heavy and can't move ...?

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Thanks again for listening to my ramblings,

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I have a feeling that this thread may interest many others so keep on rambling Dave. :)

M.

Dave,

I've had a quick look at the files you added to the earlier message, and I'm not even going to pretend to be able to make any useful suggestions. It's using frequencies in the bands I have come to believe to be appropriate. The segment lengths might be a bit short, but the proof will be in the results for you and only you.

Fact is, I have pretty much stopped doing any session programming beyond minor tweaks, suggestions and background sounds/music. Whoever wrote the MindPlace inbuilt sessions, and the ones I use in Transparent Corp's Neuroprogrammer and Mind Work Station, have done a vastly better job, both in aesthetics and effectiveness than I'm going to achieve any time soon.

I applaud those who can write their own sessions and get meaningful results - keep up the good work!!!

Cheers,
Craig

Marisa:

I appreciate your offer of assistance.

I have used many other hypnosis tapes besides the one I mentioned.

Some of the techniques I have learned I incorporated into my regiments.

Such as: I notice if I imagine I'm laying in a hammock rocking back and forth
my brain actually simulates this, letting me relax more thoroughly.
(this may also be due to the fact that I'm usually doing this in my waterbed and may subconsciously be moving the bed)

Usually the hypnotist requires you to count backward from 300 or perform
some form of reverse math calculation to stimulate relaxation during their suggestions. I try to replicate this method whenever I go under.

If you have the time let me know what you think of the program I posted.

I will be creating many more.

I plan to map out the current session I am using to tailor it to the key hypnotic suggestions, like when the hypnotist says imagine sunlight running up and down parts of your body, I will add an effect so the program will ripple like sunshine or if he says imagine an orange ball of light glowing in your abdomen, I will try and create a ripple of frequencies at that time mark.

Thanks again,
Dave

Craig:

Thanks for your input and encouragement.

Dave

Hi Dave,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EvilDave

Usually the hypnotist requires you to count backward from 300 or perform
some form of reverse math calculation to stimulate relaxation during their suggestions. I try to replicate this method whenever I go under.

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The progressive body relaxation is also a fairly popular method. That's the one where you start at your toes (tense and relax) and work your way up your body.

The boat floating on the water, rocking in waves, is much like your hammock metaphor. The waterbed definitely adds to the physical sensation, deepening the trance.

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If you have the time let me know what you think of the program I posted.

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Are you referring to the SMR program? How did you like the results?

Please add a copy of whatever programs you want to share with the forum users to the Library/Sessions section on the forum http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...splay.php?f=13 . Other wise, something others may really enjoy will get lost in the posts.

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I will be creating many more.

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Awesome! The measurement of a program is whether you get favorable results from it or not. Some people may not get the same results, some people may get even better results.

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I plan to map out the current session I am using to tailor it to the key hypnotic suggestions, like when the hypnotist says imagine sunlight running up and down parts of your body, I will add an effect so the program will ripple like sunshine or if he says imagine an orange ball of light glowing in your abdomen, I will try and create a ripple of frequencies at that time mark.

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It would be easier to do this with a program such as Neuroprogrammer or Mindworkstation - especially when you are trying to line up visual effects with words. Craig is the best person to talk to this about.

M.

Marisa:

Thanks again for your assistance!

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It would be easier to do this with a program such as Neuroprogrammer or Mindworkstation - especially when you are trying to line up visual effects with words. Craig is the best person to talk to this about.

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I don't think I'll be buying Mindworkstation anytime soon, for $499, I'll tuff it out my way.

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Originally Posted by: Craig T
At present I don't have a Proteus and know pretty much nothing about its sessions. Marisa is the expert on picking the right sessions

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I believe Craig stated that you were the resident aficionado on Proteus sessions, and he was the Procyon man, I'm not sure if that pertains to aligning visual effects with words for the Proteus.

I'll ask Craig if he has any tips, but, I feel it will not be a challenge for me.

Kind regards,

Dave

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Originally Posted by EvilDave

Marisa:

Thanks again for your assistance!

I don't think I'll be buying Mindworkstation anytime soon, for $499, I'll tuff it out my way.

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I think you could do it with NP2, which is a lot cheaper. Craig would be able to tell you if this is possible.

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I believe Craig stated that you were the resident aficionado on Proteus sessions, and he was the Procyon man, I'm not sure if that pertains to aligning visual effects with words for the Proteus.

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It's going to be a matter of timing. You'll have to do a lot of having the Proteus editor in open session and playing the cd and matching up the words to effects. I think this would be a very challenging prospect. I don't know of a better way to do it than with a program such as NP2 or MWS.

Other than the "wow" effect, it really isn't essential for a good hypnosis cd. So it depends on whether you want to take the effort or not. Cudos to you in the realm of patience if you do. I'd be hucking my machine (or something) through the window in frustration.

M.

Hello Dave, you are asking the most important question as far as i am concerned. I just purchased the proteus thinking i would be able to induce a deep state for the purpose of programable hypnosis. I have operated a hynotherapy clinic in the past and have some knowledge of its usage. I assumed (programable) ment having a script accompany the proteus sessions. My mistake! Since you have already been down this road and reading your comments leeds me to belive that you may have saved me hours of frustration on the internet, So from what i gather here is you can import a hypnotic CD and run a proteus program together. But cannot creat a hypnotic behavioral modiification on the proteus itself. I would like to know more of your experiences with this if possible Thanks Swan:confused:

Hi Swan,

I don't know if Dave is still around, but I just thought I'd dive in and give you a bit of a reply.

Marisa, here at MindPlace, is a hypnosis/NLP expert, and I'm sure she'll have some words for you in due course, but another forum you may find valuable is at http://www.transparentcorp.com/community/forum

There you will find lots of people using Neuroprogrammer and Mind Workstation in conjunction with their mind machines to do all manner of things along the lines you're seeking.

To give the short answer to your question, you can use a CD player, MP3 player or computer to play any material you wish through the Proteus alongside the Proteus session. The Proteus is also an excellent Audiostrobe decoder for sessions created with applications such as those I mentioned above.

I hope you're not disappointed with your purchase, because you've just opened the door to an amazing world of self-development.

Cheers,
Craig

Hi Swan,

Are you looking to do this to yourself or others?

If you are looking to use the Proteus in hypnosis sessions (for others), what I did when I was practicing, was to run a microphone, two sets of headphones, cd player and my proteus through a small mixer. By doing this, I was able to use a variety of scripts and cds as well as provide entrainment through the Proteus and induce very deep states in clients.

If you are looking to create audiostrobe like cds for yourself, then Craig's method with Neuroprogrammer or Mind Work Station is probably the best option.

M.

A thank you to Craig and Marisa for your help. My experience with the Proteus has been exceptional so far. I am using P18 and a program, Hypnotic and have noticed deep trance phenomena. Very exciting!! Thanks Again Swan