Learning to swim or ride a bicycle
Hello fellow brain travellers,
I'm new to this forum, but have not seen the question I want to ask. But if I'm wasting your time you may slap me on the head with a dead fish :fish: and put me in a corner. :icon_study:
I got my proteus several months ago and I am, of course quite happy with it. But, and this is more for the good people at mindplace, there is something bothering me. I feel like I've got aan olympic size swimming pool, but can only wade around in the shallow end. I've been told were the diving boards, the deep end and even the huge inflatable sea snake are. But I've not been told how to swim, to get there. It's like recieving a bicycle with al the bells and whistles but I can only sit on it with my feet on the ground and walk around. Because there is no one around to teach me how to ride a bicycle.
What I'm coming at has two parts. First I've seen it in some toppics in this forum, something I would call meta programs. One topic mentions that if I want to learn I could use session this beforehand, then study with session that with the glasses of and then end with session so and so. I would not have thougt of combining sessions in this way. And I have no idea what would go together in what situation. What I'm looking for would be some sort of e-book with some basic information on which session could be used in what situation. And which session would enhance the results of another session. And I am not only refering to study or sleep meta programs. But for example what sessions combined could help me achieve a lasting behavioural change. Can you make such a general overview?
The second part is some general brainwave theory. Finding the "brainwave" frequencies would not be that tricky. But what frequency to put them on is tricky. Say I want a 5 or 6 Hz wave, what pitch should I put in the left ear 100 Hz? 200 Hz? 315 Hz? 433 Hz? This is were the book Awakening Mind 1 (AM1) comes in to play. I've seen it mentioned here before and it helps with some of the theory. One of my issues though, is that someone is saying dual binaural beats are not that useful. But the AM1 book uses them quite often. Who is right? You build these machines so you should know something about the theory. You made the decision to make Dual BB available on the proteus but to leave them out of the Procyon. Why? Can you share your knowledge of the theory with the users in the form of a basic e-book? Because while the AM1 book gives the theory I do need to make a translation of the sample sessions to the proteus. A book from the makers of the Proteus would be much closer to immediatly useful to me.
Regarding both e-books I would even be willing to pay for that kind of information.
Kind regards,
Menno
Re: Learning to swim or ride a bicycle
Hello Green Dragon,
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GreenDragon
Hello fellow brain travelers,
I'm new to this forum, but have not seen the question I want to ask. But if I'm wasting your time you may slap me on the head with a dead fish :fish: and put me in a corner. :icon_study:
You are definitely not wasting anyone's time but since you like the idea of punishment, how about an alive fish and round room? :icon_wink:
Quote:
I got my Proteus several months ago and I am, of course quite happy with it. But, and this is more for the good people at Mindplace, there is something bothering me. I feel like I've got an Olympic size swimming pool, but can only wade around in the shallow end. I've been told were the diving boards, the deep end and even the huge inflatable sea snake are. But I've not been told how to swim, to get there. It's like receiving a bicycle with ail the bells and whistles but I can only sit on it with my feet on the ground and walk around. Because there is no one around to teach me how to ride a bicycle.
You wade around the pool and become familiar with how the water feels and then you experiment slowly with the deeper end. You take a look at the bicycle and learn how it works and then you try it out - slowly until you get the hang of it.
Quote:
What I'm coming at has two parts. First I've seen it in some topics in this forum, something I would call meta programs.
Meta programs have more to do with NLP than with an AVS machine. Meta refers to that which is at a higher level. If the messages are referring to something with an AVS machine, they may be talking about the machine working on your unconscious.
The machine works on your brain waves, which in turn can help you change your state of consciousness. For example, the AVS machine can help you change your state from stressed to relaxed.
Quote:
One topic mentions that if I want to learn I could use session this beforehand, then study with session that with the glasses of and then end with session so and so. I would not have thought of combining sessions in this way. And I have no idea what would go together in what situation.
What I'm looking for would be some sort of e-book with some basic information on which session could be used in what situation. And which session would enhance the results of another session. And I am not only referring to study or sleep meta programs. But for example what sessions combined could help me achieve a lasting behavioral change. Can you make such a general overview?
If you learn about the 4 basic brain states and what states of mind go with each of the brain states, then you will be able to easily coordinate your session with your goal.
If you go to the library section of the forum http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...splay.php?f=15 you will find a thread called, "Light and Sound Basic". This article gives you an overview of what the brain waves are and what states of mind are attributed to them. Look around the library a bit and read some of the research and information and this will give you more of an idea of how the machines work.
On the Mindplace support site there are some papers written about AVS and the brain http://www.mindplacesupport.com/Reference.htm .
Take a look through this information and if you have still have some questions, please feel free to ask them here and I will do my best to find you the information. Some day, one of us will write something more substantial on the subject but until then, you do have this forum to ask any question your heart desires.
Quote:
The second part is some general brain wave theory. Finding the "brain wave" frequencies would not be that tricky. But what frequency to put them on is tricky. Say I want a 5 or 6 Hz wave, what pitch should I put in the left ear 100 Hz? 200 Hz? 315 Hz? 433 Hz?
You may be better off using the preset programs as they will do everything you want and then some. You can also alter the preset programs if you want to tweak one to do something specific. Please keep in mind that the programs are designed to produce results while also preventing things such as habitation and boredom. Too much of the same thing for too long does not produce the best results.
In regards to binaural beats, the difference between the two carrier frequencies is the binaural beat. So for example, if you program 110 Hz in one ear and 100 Hz in the other, the binaural beat created is 10 Hz. I've read that the brain can perceive binaural beats between 90 Hz and 440 Hz
though they are best perceived when the carrier wave is at 440 hz. In the preset programs, all this is taken into consideration.
Quote:
This is were the book Awakening Mind 1 (AM1) comes in to play. I've seen it mentioned here before and it helps with some of the theory. One of my issues though, is that someone is saying dual binaural beats are not that useful. But the AM1 book uses them quite often. Who is right? You build these machines so you should know something about the theory. You made the decision to make Dual BB available on the Proteus but to leave them out of the Procyon. Why?
Dual BBs will often produce monaural beats because two tones are present in both ears, which makes it about the same as a monaural beat. When Synchromed tested various beats, they found that only the binaural beats caused discernable EEG activation. I would think that Mindplace didn't include dual bbs in the Procyon because the effects were not superior to regualr bbs. The author of Awakened Mind obviously has a differing opinion concerning dual bbs. I haven't seen much research (if any) that says that dual bbs are superior to regular bbs. It could be out there .... it just doesn't seem to be a popular, mainstream view.
Quote:
Can you share your knowledge of the theory with the users in the form of a basic e-book? Because while the AM1 book gives the theory I do need to make a translation of the sample sessions to the Proteus. A book from the makers of the Proteus would be much closer to immediately useful to me.
Regarding both e-books I would even be willing to pay for that kind of information.
Re: Learning to swim or ride a bicycle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
Hello Green Dragon,
You are definitely not wasting anyone's time but since you like the idea of punishment, how about an alive fish and round room? :icon_wink:
I'll have to wrap my brain around that one. But if I added water I would have a fishtank. :icon_rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
You wade around the pool and become familiar with how the water feels and then you experiment slowly with the deeper end. You take a look at the bicycle and learn how it works and then you try it out - slowly until you get the hang of it.
Well yes, but I could drown if I wasn't careful. Meaning I have no idea what I could do wrong with a brainmachine. Yes I know, nothing if using the preset programs. But what is the use of buying an all singing all dancing :banana: brain machine, sorry light and sound machine, if I'm only going to use the presets? I could have bought a cheaper model for that. The sirius maybe?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
Meta programs have more to do with NLP than with an AVS machine. Meta refers to that which is at a higher level. If the messages are referring to something with an AVS machine, they may be talking about the machine working on your unconscious.
The way I intended to use meta was as a program of programs. Meaning a regime if you will of combining several of the default sessions in to one "tool" to achieve a single goal. I can not really give an example since I don't really know how to do that. That was what I wanted to know. What sessions would supplement each other in reaching a goal. Maybe on different time's of the day. In the morning this one and before going to bed the next session.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
The machine works on your brain waves, which in turn can help you change your state of consciousness. For example, the AVS machine can help you change your state from stressed to relaxed.
Yes, and if you are relaxed you can remember the information you are consuming beter. Or you could use sugestions more effectively. "I am a creative/confident person." Or if you change your state of consiousness after waking up you might have a faster start of your day. And staying energetic longer. But what session would be most effective for what purpose?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
If you learn about the 4 basic brain states and what states of mind go with each of the brain states, then you will be able to easily coordinate your session with your goal.
If you go to the library section of the forum
http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...splay.php?f=15 you will find a thread called, "Light and Sound Basic". This article gives you an overview of what the brain waves are and what states of mind are attributed to them. Look around the library a bit and read some of the research and information and this will give you more of an idea of how the machines work.
On the Mindplace support site there are some papers written about AVS and the brain
http://www.mindplacesupport.com/Reference.htm .
Take a look through this information and if you have still have some questions, please feel free to ask them here and I will do my best to find you the information. Some day, one of us will write something more substantial on the subject but until then, you do have this forum to ask any question your heart desires.
Well that is the core of my dillema, I'd found the library very early on. And the brainwave theory is not that hard to fathom. But it is rather general and basic. Meaning: if I wanted Alpha should I use 9Hz or 11Hz? Both are in the Alpha range but they might have a slightly different effect. And there is documentation about those small differences as well. But I'm not a scientist or a researcher. And I don't want to go through endless experimentations. I do want to experiment, but I'd rather have a general area of frequencies known to give the desired effect. I bought the Proteus partially because I want to create my own customized and tailored sessions. And what I wanted was some source where those research papers and other materials where condensed into one volume. I don't want to invent the wheel again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
You may be better off using the preset programs as they will do everything you want and then some. You can also alter the preset programs if you want to tweak one to do something specific. Please keep in mind that the programs are designed to produce results while also preventing things such as habitation and boredom. Too much of the same thing for too long does not produce the best results.
Yes but the sessions are made with a large group of different people in mind. I might have a more powerfull sessions if I made some tweaks. But there goes the old question again: what or where should I tweak?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
In regards to binaural beats, the difference between the two carrier frequencies is the binaural beat. So for example, if you program 110 Hz in one ear and 100 Hz in the other, the binaural beat created is 10 Hz. I've read that the brain can perceive binaural beats between 90 Hz and 440 Hz
though they are best perceived when the carrier wave is at 440 hz. In the preset programs, all this is taken into consideration.
Dual BBs will often produce monaural beats because two tones are present in both ears, which makes it about the same as a monaural beat. When Synchromed tested various beats, they found that only the binaural beats caused discernable EEG activation. I would think that Mindplace didn't include dual bbs in the Procyon because the effects were not superior to regualr bbs. The author of Awakened Mind obviously has a differing opinion concerning dual bbs. I haven't seen much research (if any) that says that dual bbs are superior to regular bbs. It could be out there .... it just doesn't seem to be a popular, mainstream view.
Well I think there is a main issue of focus with dual BB. Logically I tend to agree that if I wanted relaxation I can imagine that one beat/rhythm is enough. Go to theta and take the whole brain with you. Same for say studying. The whole brain in Alpha would be useful. But to me the whole dual BB issue seems to revolve around OOBE. And since that is, acording to theory at least, a mind awake body asleep state it seems to me that two entrainment frequencies could be useful. Apparently you would want one part of the brain to be very relaxed, ie asleep, namely the part that controls your body. But you would want the other part to be active. The part that does the thinking. I have no idea how it al should work. But I could see a possible use for Dual BB there. And to be honest it is not that big of an item with me. I am interested in it as being a possible use of BWE. And I realize that OOBE would be fringe to a company like Mindplace. Not a lot of customers would by a L&S machine for OOBE.
I have found a perfect example of what I was looking for in the NeuroProgrammer 2 manual from transparent Corp. That was what I'd hoped MindPlace could deliver with the Proteus. I bought NP2 partly because of their claim that some customers found the manual alone worth the price of the software. While I wouldn't say that that manual is worth 50 or 60 dollars, it is extremely comprehensive. It brings you the theory of several uses for NP2 and focusses on how to implement that specific theory in a NP2 session. That manual is what I hope MindPlace can one day make for the Proteus and their other L&S machines. I know all the information is out there. But I would like to see it bundled in one place and focussed on the device I bought.
By the way, Marisa thank you very much for your reply. You seem to be one of the corner stones of this forum. The pillar that keep this forum standing :eusa_clap: :icon_pray:
Re: Learning to swim or ride a bicycle
Hi GD,
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GreenDragon
Well yes, but I could drown if I wasn't careful. Meaning I have no idea what I could do wrong with a brainmachine. Yes I know, nothing if using the preset programs. But what is the use of buying an all singing all dancing :banana: brain machine, sorry light and sound machine, if I'm only going to use the presets? I could have bought a cheaper model for that. The sirius maybe?
Well the good news is that you can't hurt yourself using the machine, unless you do something ridiculous like use it for 8 hours straight ... even then, beyond a headache ... there would be no permanent damage.
While I appreciate your desire to write your own programs, I would recommend becoming familiar with the programs that are on the Proteus. Take a look at those programs in the program editor and make note of how they are designed. This should teach you a lot.
The Proteus has 49 preset programs, while the Sirius has 22. You can update the O/S on the Proteus and you can not on the Sirius. The Proteus has two color ability, the Sirius only one. There are many other reasons to own a Proteus other than writing your own programs. The Proteus, IMHO, is a much better "ride" than the Sirius. While the Sirius is a good machine on its own, it's a very basic model. It's like the difference between having a basic car with no extras and a luxury model.
Quote:
The way I intended to use meta was as a program of programs. Meaning a regime if you will of combining several of the default sessions in to one "tool" to achieve a single goal. I can not really give an example since I don't really know how to do that. That was what I wanted to know. What sessions would supplement each other in reaching a goal. Maybe on different time's of the day. In the morning this one and before going to bed the next session.
It depends on what the goal is.
Quote:
Yes, and if you are relaxed you can remember the information you are consuming beter. Or you could use sugestions more effectively. "I am a creative/confident person." Or if you change your state of consiousness after waking up you might have a faster start of your day. And staying energetic longer. But what session would be most effective for what purpose?
The best time to do affirmation work is just as you are waking up and just as you are falling asleep because your brain is in a naturally induced suggestive state (Theta). Having said that, anytime you want to do self hypnosis, you will want to choose a program that is Theta based. Programs 24 to 27.
Theta is also good for processing information that you have just learned and so you would want to use a 15 minute Theta program after reading through some information. P 23.
What do you mean by "faster start to your day"? The Proteus can help get your brain into a Beta state, which is good for concentration and a bit of energy - however, if you want your entire body to stay energized then we need to take a look at other factors such as diet & exercise. Certain foods and supplements are good for providing more energy and exercise (even just stretching) helps blood flow to the brain ...which also helps with energy. If you want to know which supplements can do this, let me know. Protein for breakfast is a good idea. Whey Gourmet makes a wicked protein shake that tastes really good. I have the cappuccino flavor and mmmmm.
Quote:
Well that is the core of my dillema, I'd found the library very early on. And the brainwave theory is not that hard to fathom. But it is rather general and basic. Meaning: if I wanted Alpha should I use 9Hz or 11Hz? Both are in the Alpha range but they might have a slightly different effect. And there is documentation about those small differences as well. But I'm not a scientist or a researcher. And I don't want to go through endless experimentations. I do want to experiment, but I'd rather have a general area of frequencies known to give the desired effect.
You should use the entire range of the frequency desired because each person is different and while 8hz may do the trick for one person, 9 or 10 will for another. Also when you use a range of frequencies, you will avoid habitation (which occurs when your brain gets use to one thing and then starts ignoring it and so the effect is diminished).
Quote:
I bought the Proteus partially because I want to create my own customized and tailored sessions. And what I wanted was some source where those research papers and other materials where condensed into one volume. I don't want to invent the wheel again.
I can appreciate what you are saying as I was in your shoes at one time also. Hopefully this fall, I'll be able to find some time and compile something that is more detailed and useful to the users. Please continue to tell me what you'd like to see and I'll make some notes and see what I can come up with. Of course by the time I do come up with something, you'll likely know what you want to know, however, I think this would be helpful to the next person.
Quote:
Yes but the sessions are made with a large group of different people in mind. I might have a more powerfull sessions if I made some tweaks. But there goes the old question again: what or where should I tweak?
That is a difficult question to answer because without an EEG reading, I don't know what is going on in that brain of yours and therefore can't really make a suggestion. Unfortunatly experimentation is going to be the only way and experience. When you try a preset program, what results do you get after trying the program over - let's say a week. (Effects are not always immediate). This is a difficult thing to advise a person on because there could be other factors influencing the results as well. Instead of changing the actual frequencies in the program when "tweaking", you may want to change the pitch, modulation or make a segment longer or shorter.
Quote:
Well I think there is a main issue of focus with dual BB. Logically I tend to agree that if I wanted relaxation I can imagine that one beat/rhythm is enough. Go to theta and take the whole brain with you. Same for say studying. The whole brain in Alpha would be useful. But to me the whole dual BB issue seems to revolve around OOBE. And since that is, acording to theory at least, a mind awake body asleep state it seems to me that two entrainment frequencies could be useful. Apparently you would want one part of the brain to be very relaxed, ie asleep, namely the part that controls your body. But you would want the other part to be active. The part that does the thinking. I have no idea how it al should work. But I could see a possible use for Dual BB there. And to be honest it is not that big of an item with me. I am interested in it as being a possible use of BWE. And I realize that OOBE would be fringe to a company like Mindplace. Not a lot of customers would by a L&S machine for OOBE.
All of the brainwave frequencies are active in the brain at all times. There is however, always one dominant frequency and that is the frequency that reflects our current state of mind. Aside from brain damage, a brain will not have Delta and Beta dominant at the same time. You may get two frequencies that are relatively close to each other being dominant, like high Alpha, low SMR. Normally what will happen if two different frequencies are introduced to the brain, the brain will choose likely a frequency inbetween the two and entrain to that. So ... it's unlikely to be able to entrain two different frequencies via an AVS machine. It probably could be done with EEG and probes where they can stimulate the brain in different regions directly and that is beyond the scope of both you and I (unless you are a neurologist).
Body asleep, mind awake state is Theta. This is the best state to experience an ASC (altered state of consciousness). Other than a near death experience, most people who experience an OBE are in a theta state.
Quote:
I have found a perfect example of what I was looking for in the NeuroProgrammer 2 manual from transparent Corp. That was what I'd hoped MindPlace could deliver with the Proteus. I bought NP2 partly because of their claim that some customers found the manual alone worth the price of the software. While I wouldn't say that that manual is worth 50 or 60 dollars, it is extremely comprehensive. It brings you the theory of several uses for NP2 and focusses on how to implement that specific theory in a NP2 session. That manual is what I hope MindPlace can one day make for the Proteus and their other L&S machines. I know all the information is out there. But I would like to see it bundled in one place and focussed on the device I bought.
I haven't seen the manual but I'll take your word for it. We do have to be careful about what we write in connection with the machines because the FDA is really picky about anyone making "medical claims" about the machines. This is one of the main reasons why a lot of our information is basic.
Quote:
By the way, Marisa thank you very much for your reply. You seem to be one of the corner stones of this forum. The pillar that keep this forum standing :eusa_clap: :icon_pray:
What a nice thing to say. Thank you. You made my day. :headbang:
M.
Re: Learning to swim or ride a bicycle
Hi Marisa,
Luckily for me, I don't have to quest for a 1000 days fighting a 100 fights to reach the Hermit and learn from her knowledge. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
Well the good news is that you can't hurt yourself using the machine, unless you do something ridiculous like use it for 8 hours straight ... even then, beyond a headache ... there would be no permanent damage.
The reason I mentioned "getting hurt" is that in "Awakening Mind 1" James Mann mentions something I summarize with the words "dislodging trauma's or bad memory's". And of course he is just being careful in mentioning it. It may not happen. But what if you are the small minority in which using a L&S machine triggers something from the past. How would you deal with that? (I haven't experienced this, but my desire to know as much as possible beforehand stems from a fear of failure. I am working on that.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
While I appreciate your desire to write your own programs, I would recommend becoming familiar with the programs that are on the Proteus. Take a look at those programs in the program editor and make note of how they are designed. This should teach you a lot.
Good idea. I'll have a look. I also used the tutorial to create a random session.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
It depends on what the goal is.
The best time to do affirmation work is just as you are waking up and just as you are falling asleep because your brain is in a naturally induced suggestive state (Theta). Having said that, anytime you want to do self hypnosis, you will want to choose a program that is Theta based. Programs 24 to 27.
I want a behavioural change. I want to change procrastination into action. The reason I procrastinate is that I am affraid that if I do something, I make a mistake. That is why I try to find as much information as possible before I get started. That is why I never get started. I am now working with affirmations in NeuroProgrammer2 and using the proteus as an audiostrobe decoder. What proteus sessions could be helpfull and how?
As an aside, do you know if affirmations need to be in your native language. I'm dutch and I do understand english very well, but is my subconsious as good in english as I am?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
I can appreciate what you are saying as I was in your shoes at one time also. Hopefully this fall, I'll be able to find some time and compile something that is more detailed and useful to the users. Please continue to tell me what you'd like to see and I'll make some notes and see what I can come up with. Of course by the time I do come up with something, you'll likely know what you want to know, however, I think this would be helpful to the next person.
Well the main thing is you became a tome of knowledge in this field because of your interests. Or maybe because of the path you wanted to follow. Since you read almost al the books you are recommending on your site. But I have no ambitions in the field of BWE. I want to use the tools I have as efficiently as possible without becoming an authority in the field. I want to read something about the material but don't want to go searching for the gems out there. I do understand the need to know what you are doing with a L&S machine to make the best use of it. But most of the available material out there on how to use a L&S machine is tailored to a specific system. You would need to do your own "translation" to use it on a Proteus. But to do that you would need to have more knowledge of BWE. Somewhat of a conundrum, I'd say.
What I would like to see most is probably what you are not allowed to tell. Things like: which combination of sessions helps with quiting smoking (I don't smoke, just an example), which sessions help with public speaking, which sessions can help in assisting a behavioural change, which sessions help with weight loss. There are mentions of sleeping disorders or ADD that can benefit from a brain machine. I would like to see a manual that tells me which sessions are usefull and how to use them most effectively towards a goal. And I do mean to use the Proteus as an aid, as an adition to normal things you would do to reach one of the mentioned goals. For example: I would definetly not expect to lose weight with a L&S machine alone. Losing weight is mostly about eating right en exercising (right). But there must be a way that a L&S machine can help. I don't know, perhaps using affirmations and an alpha session. Or maybe as a diversion when you get hungry. Or maybe to lift your energy at the end of the day. Or maybe with a hypnosis script in Theta. As I said i have no idea what I'm talking about. That is why I would like to see such a manual. :icon_wink:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
I haven't seen the manual but I'll take your word for it. We do have to be careful about what we write in connection with the machines because the FDA is really picky about anyone making "medical claims" about the machines. This is one of the main reasons why a lot of our information is basic.
I understand your hands are tied. Too bad too, since there must be a lot of knowledge within the MindPlace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
What a nice thing to say. Thank you. You made my day. :headbang:
M.
Well your neighbours have saying of giving credit where credit is due.
Re: Learning to swim or ride a bicycle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GreenDragon
Hi Marisa,
Luckily for me, I don't have to quest for a 1000 days fighting a 100 fights to reach the Hermit and learn from her knowledge. :)
So you say. :icon_wink:
Quote:
The reason I mentioned "getting hurt" is that in "Awakening Mind 1" James Mann mentions something I summarize with the words "dislodging trauma's or bad memory's". And of course he is just being careful in mentioning it. It may not happen. But what if you are the small minority in which using a L&S machine triggers something from the past. How would you deal with that? (I haven't experienced this, but my desire to know as much as possible beforehand stems from a fear of failure. I am working on that.)
A Theta state can unlock memories (usually repressed memories) in some people. What to do if this happens? Remain calm and remind yourself that it's a memory, something that happened a long time ago and right now is the present and in the present, everything is okay. Then distract yourself by going to do something else, something fun. Keep in mind, not all memories are real or accurate.
Quote:
I want a behavioral change. I want to change procrastination into action.
You need to change your perception about mistakes. There really is no such thing as a mistake - there are just results. Some results are better than others. If you do something and get a poor result, then simply do something else. Keep in mind that every successful person has had both good and bad results from their efforts. The difference between someone who is successful and someone who is not is that the successful person never gave up.
Most errors are not fatal. :icon_wink:
Quote:
The reason I procrastinate is that I am afraid that if I do something, I make a mistake. That is why I try to find as much information as possible before I get started. That is why I never get started. I am now working with affirmations in NeuroProgrammer2 and using the proteus as an audiostrobe decoder. What proteus sessions could be helpfull and how?
Well it's pretty smart to get information about something before jumping in and doing it. How do you know when you have enough information to make a decision whether something is worth pursuing or not?
What is the affirmation you are saying? I just want to check the wording.
Quote:
As an aside, do you know if affirmations need to be in your native language. I'm dutch and I do understand english very well, but is my subconscious as good in english as I am?
Do you think in Dutch or English? You can always do it in both languages.
Quote:
Well the main thing is you became a tome of knowledge in this field because of your interests. Or maybe because of the path you wanted to follow. Since you read almost al the books you are recommending on your site. But I have no ambitions in the field of BWE. I want to use the tools I have as efficiently as possible without becoming an authority in the field. I want to read something about the material but don't want to go searching for the gems out there. I do understand the need to know what you are doing with a L&S machine to make the best use of it. But most of the available material out there on how to use a L&S machine is tailored to a specific system. You would need to do your own "translation" to use it on a Proteus. But to do that you would need to have more knowledge of BWE. Somewhat of a conundrum, I'd say.
Well we do have this forum and you can ask as many questions as you want and I will do my best to find you answers. No conundrum - be as curious as you want.
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What I would like to see most is probably what you are not allowed to tell.
MB: I'm in Canada, the rules are different and I do not work for Mindplace. I am a distributor for them, but I don't work for them so I, personally, don't have to deal with the FDA thing. I don't sell in the U.S. either so that also gives me a bit of FDA immunity. It would be a bit more complicated if I tried to publish what I know or think I know. So, on this forum ... I can answer your questions to the best of my knowledge.
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Things like: which combination of sessions helps with quiting smoking (I don't smoke, just an example), which sessions help with public speaking, which sessions can help in assisting a behavioural change, which sessions help with weight loss. There are mentions of sleeping disorders or ADD that can benefit from a brain machine.
Sessions for Quitting smoking: Any session that is Alpha based will be helpful for any addiction. It has been found that people who have problems with addictions are deficient in Alpha brainwaves.
Sessions for ADD: Any session that is Beta/SMR based. It has been found that people with ADD tend to have Theta as the dominant brainwave which causes them problems with concentration. Beta training helps the brain turn this around.
Public speaking --- hmmm that has to do with confidence and there isn't really a brainwave that is associated with that. Maybe something that helped the person be calm and relaxed would be useful so perhaps an Alpha or Alpha/Theta session.
Sleeping disorders: Some sleep problems can be helped by using a Delta program before going to bed or if the person wakes up in the middle of the night and can not go back to sleep.
Of course there are various causes for all of these conditions including poor diet, nutritional deficiencies and biochemical irregularities. An AVS machine can help with some of these problems providing there is no other medical reasons for the problems. For example, an under active thyroid may make someone sluggish, a food allergy may create symptoms similar to ADD.
All our machines do is coax the brain into a specific state ... what the person does with that state is what changes the behavior.
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I would like to see a manual that tells me which sessions are useful and how to use them most effectively towards a goal. And I do mean to use the Proteus as an aid, as an adition to normal things you would do to reach one of the mentioned goals. For example: I would definetly not expect to lose weight with a L&S machine alone. Losing weight is mostly about eating right en exercising (right). But there must be a way that a L&S machine can help.
I see what you are saying. That would be useful. I'll make a note of it. In the mean time, a person who wants to lose weight could likely benefit from more Alpha brainwaves because when the brain is high in Alpha, the person feels more satisfied and doesn't feel the need to eat. Of course, if the person is eating for psychological reasons, they may want to work on their issues as well.
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I don't know, perhaps using affirmations and an alpha session.
See, you are more knowledgeable than you though as you are correct!
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Or maybe as a diversion when you get hungry. Or maybe to lift your energy at the end of the day. Or maybe with a hypnosis script in Theta. As I said i have no idea what I'm talking about. That is why I would like to see such a manual. :icon_wink:
All of those are pretty good ideas. There is no harm in trying different things because sometimes, through experimentation you stumble across something brilliant. I've figured out all kinds of things by accident. I've also had lots of success by merely asking for what I want - realizing at worst, the person says "No" and oh well.
Did you ever read the book "Dune"? If so, remember the famous line "fear is a mind killer". At least I think that was the line. ;)
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I understand your hands are tied. Too bad too, since there must be a lot of knowledge within the MindPlace.
Not as much as you think and as I mentioned above ... there are ways around some things. This forum is one of those way. :hello2:
Bought yet another book on the brain ... gotta go check it out.
TTYL
M.
Re: Learning to swim or ride a bicycle
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Originally Posted by
Marisa
A Theta state can unlock memories (usually repressed memories) in some people. What to do if this happens? Remain calm and remind yourself that it's a memory, something that happened a long time ago and right now is the present and in the present, everything is okay. Then distract yourself by going to do something else, something fun. Keep in mind, not all memories are real or accurate.
Okay, sounds easy enough. But could a possible reason for "hidding" that memory be that you couldn't deal with it then? If so, what makes that I can deal with it now?
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Originally Posted by
Marisa
You need to change your perception about mistakes. There really is no such thing as a mistake - there are just results. Some results are better than others. If you do something and get a poor result, then simply do something else. Keep in mind that every successful person has had both good and bad results from their efforts. The difference between someone who is successful and someone who is not is that the successful person never gave up.
Most errors are not fatal. :icon_wink:
Well yes, my reasoning mind is already that far. But I don't feel/believe it. If I look at a situation I can see that there realy isn't that much to fear. But somehow it feels like there are many things that can go wrong. Somehow I can't bridge the gap between knowing and feeling. That feeling is diminishing by taking small (succesfull) steps, but it feels like eroding a mountain. Not something that is done before my time.
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Originally Posted by
Marisa
Well it's pretty smart to get information about something before jumping in and doing it. How do you know when you have enough information to make a decision whether something is worth pursuing or not?
Well that is just my dillema. When should I get going? In the old days I would never start on seriously frightning tasks. That also has diminished somewhat, but again not fast enough. (I am talking about years.)
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Originally Posted by
Marisa
What is the affirmation you are saying? I just want to check the wording.
I don't mind putting them here, but I doubt if that would be useful. I think we'd get something like that movie title: "Lost in translation" To give an example I'll pick one that to me appeared to have an effect after only one use. "Ik doe mijn taken met plezier." And since I don't think there are many readers here cappable of understanding Dutch here comes a translation: "I do my tasks with joy." And now for some problems with translating: joy could possibly be substituted with pleasure, although I am not entirely sure of that. But more influence is for the word task. Because it can imply chores. And while a chore may be a task a task is not neccesarily a chore. I think. But to me the word includes chores as wel as tasks like writing. But this shows some of the issues with translating. That may not be a problem in normal use, but as affirmations I think those small nuances can make a difference. The reason I picked this particular example is that I listened to this (and three other) affirmations during a theta session. The next day I went to mow the lawn. Deffinetly not a thing I'd like to do. But I could catch myself smiling more than once while mowing the lawn. And that deffinetly has not happened before. I have bought the book "I Can Do It" by Louise L. Hay. (of course a dutch translation.) I have some other dutch sources on using affirmations. I have found your primer here in the library. And the NP2 manual also has a comprehensive section on creating affirmations. And still I can throw one or two affirmations out the window after using them because they somehow don't feel right.
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Originally Posted by
Marisa
Do you think in Dutch or English? You can always do it in both languages.
Well I can think in english, and do so quite regularly, but that is not the "natural" state. And it feels easier to digest dutch affirmations than english ones. That looks to me like that answers my question. I should use Dutch affirmations. :eusa_think:
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Originally Posted by
Marisa
Well we do have this forum and you can ask as many questions as you want and I will do my best to find you answers. No conundrum - be as curious as you want.
Well as you might already have noticed I have quite I bit of things I'd like to know. :icon_wink: And I'd like to thank you again for being this patient with a newbie. To me such care for customers would be a strong selling point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
MB: I'm in Canada, the rules are different and I do not work for Mindplace. I am a distributor for them, but I don't work for them so I, personally, don't have to deal with the FDA thing. I don't sell in the U.S. either so that also gives me a bit of FDA immunity. It would be a bit more complicated if I tried to publish what I know or think I know. So, on this forum ... I can answer your questions to the best of my knowledge.
When I was looking into L&S machines some fifteen years ago it looked liked they were called brain machines then. Now you see the terms AVS machine, L&S machine or Meditation machine. Is that also under the influence of the FDA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
Of course there are various causes for all of these conditions including poor diet, nutritional deficiencies and biochemical irregularities. An AVS machine can help with some of these problems providing there is no other medical reasons for the problems. For example, an under active thyroid may make someone sluggish, a food allergy may create symptoms similar to ADD.
All our machines do is coax the brain into a specific state ... what the person does with that state is what changes the behavior.
Yes, that is exactly my point. The "regular therapy" will not include the use of a L&S machine. So if you wanted to use one in addition to what you'd already would do there is no one to tell you that a) you could use a L&S machine to help you in the first place and b) how to use a L&S machine for your particular problem. And yes you could ask here for a "how to" But if you saw in a manual some examples of usage you might easier make a link to your specific situation. And then ask the question of "how to" here in the forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
Did you ever read the book "Dune"? If so, remember the famous line "fear is a mind killer". At least I think that was the line. ;)
Well I have read the book some fifteen or twenty years ago. But of course I've read it in Dutch :) And again, a lot of people say this kind of thing to me. "There is nothing to fear but fear itself" is a nice one. And I can reason or rationalize all I want, but when push comes to shove there is another part of me that says: "that is all well and good, but it doesn't FEEL right."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
Bought yet another book on the brain ... gotta go check it out.
And then there is this lengthy piece of conversation. :eusa_think: I hope you'll still have enough time to read :D
TTYL
Menno
Re: Learning to swim or ride a bicycle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GreenDragon
Okay, sounds easy enough. But could a possible reason for "hidding" that memory be that you couldn't deal with it then? If so, what makes that I can deal with it now?
I don't know. You are older, wiser and more stable now? :eusa_think: "Repressed memories" do tend to come to surface and/or manifest themselves in people's lives anyway (usually in an annoying, troubling way) ... so it's not like you can avoid them forever anyway. If there is an issue, might as well deal with it and get it out of the way.
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Well yes, my reasoning mind is already that far. But I don't feel/believe it. If I look at a situation I can see that there realy isn't that much to fear. But somehow it feels like there are many things that can go wrong. Somehow I can't bridge the gap between knowing and feeling. That feeling is diminishing by taking small (succesfull) steps, but it feels like eroding a mountain. Not something that is done before my time.
If you could find an NLP Practitioner, they would be able to help you change this.
You do not necessarily have to believe it in order to change it. You merely have to be open to believing it. Sometimes all it takes is you acting as if you did believe it and then the u/c takes the cue and begins to believe it. Your mind goes towards whatever you are thinking about so if you are thinking about all of the reasons to not do something, then that becomes your reality. You really do create the situations you think about.
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Well that is just my dillema. When should I get going? In the old days I would never start on seriously frightning tasks. That also has diminished somewhat, but again not fast enough. (I am talking about years.)
No time like the present. Unless you are prone to seizures, you have nothing to fear in tryng the machine. Start with a short session like "Tranquility - Quick Refresher" P9 on the Proteus, P15 on the Procyon. Both these are Alpha based programs and at worst, you will feel happier. :eek:
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I don't mind putting them here, but I doubt if that would be useful. I think we'd get something like that movie title: "Lost in translation" To give an example I'll pick one that to me appeared to have an effect after only one use. "Ik doe mijn taken met plezier." And since I don't think there are many readers here cappable of understanding Dutch here comes a translation: "I do my tasks with joy."
Oh, okay. Just make sure you use positive language and state what you do want and avoid the things you do not want.
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And now for some problems with translating: joy could possibly be substituted with pleasure, although I am not entirely sure of that. But more influence is for the word task. Because it can imply chores. And while a chore may be a task a task is not neccesarily a chore. I think. But to me the word includes chores as wel as tasks like writing. But this shows some of the issues with translating. That may not be a problem in normal use, but as affirmations I think those small nuances can make a difference. The reason I picked this particular example is that I listened to this (and three other) affirmations during a theta session. The next day I went to mow the lawn. Deffinetly not a thing I'd like to do. But I could catch myself smiling more than once while mowing the lawn. And that deffinetly has not happened before. I have bought the book "I Can Do It" by Louise L. Hay. (of course a dutch translation.) I have some other dutch sources on using affirmations. I have found your primer here in the library. And the NP2 manual also has a comprehensive section on creating affirmations. And still I can throw one or two affirmations out the window after using them because they somehow don't feel right.
It looks like you have a good handle on what to do here.
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Well I can think in english, and do so quite regularly, but that is not the "natural" state. And it feels easier to digest dutch affirmations than english ones. That looks to me like that answers my question. I should use Dutch affirmations. :eusa_think:
:)
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Well as you might already have noticed I have quite I bit of things I'd like to know. :icon_wink: And I'd like to thank you again for being this patient with a newbie. To me such care for customers would be a strong selling point.
I love the technology and sharing my knowledge with others. I only sell in Canada but I'm motivated to contribute here because I really, really like and respect the people at Mindplace and love the products and technology. Robert, the creator of the "toys" is a brilliant man and if I could download a quarter of his knowlege ...
My dog just looks at me with a blank expression while I explain to her what I just found out about a particular brainwave. The Raven gives me a look which I translate to "get lost human" so ... the forum and answering questions is much more rewarding. :icon_wink:
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When I was looking into L&S machines some fifteen years ago it looked liked they were called brain machines then. Now you see the terms AVS machine, L&S machine or Meditation machine. Is that also under the influence of the FDA?
Well it does keep things under the radar to not have the word "brain" in the product - though I'm not sure that's the reason. I say "AVS" because it's easier and a good description. AVS in case you didn't know, means Audio Visual Stimulation.
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Yes, that is exactly my point. The "regular therapy" will not include the use of a L&S machine. So if you wanted to use one in addition to what you'd already would do there is no one to tell you that a) you could use a L&S machine to help you in the first place and b) how to use a L&S machine for your particular problem. And yes you could ask here for a "how to" But if you saw in a manual some examples of usage you might easier make a link to your specific situation. And then ask the question of "how to" here in the forum.
Ideally that is a good idea. I'll keep it in mind in case find myself ambitious enought to take on such a product. Though I'm still not entirely sure how to do this and get around the FDA.
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Well I have read the book some fifteen or twenty years ago. But of course I've read it in Dutch :) And again, a lot of people say this kind of thing to me. "There is nothing to fear but fear itself" is a nice one. And I can reason or rationalize all I want, but when push comes to shove there is another part of me that says: "that is all well and good, but it doesn't FEEL right."
Then you question that part and ask, "What about it doesn't feel right?" Take that internal dialogue a bit further and see what arguments your u/c tries to give you and if they are not logical, you can reject them and make a conscious decision to do something else. You (your conscious mind) is in charge of your unconscious mind, not the other way around. Just remember that you reject silly thoughts all the time, so this isn't any different.
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And then there is this lengthy piece of conversation. :eusa_think: I hope you'll still have enough time to read :D
I do. Sharing information and ideas is a worthwhile expenditure of time as I often learn something in the process because I have to think about the answer and sometimes even look it up from some reference material. It keeps the knowledge current and fresh.
It's all good. :cheers:
M.
Re: Learning to swim or ride a bicycle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
No time like the present. Unless you are prone to seizures, you have nothing to fear in tryng the machine. Start with a short session like "Tranquility - Quick Refresher" P9 on the Proteus, P15 on the Procyon. Both these are Alpha based programs and at worst, you will feel happier. :eek:
I'm sorry, I seem to have put you on the wrong foot here. I have been using my Proteus already. And as far as information goes I have read "Mega Brain" by Michael Hutchinson 15 or 20 years ago. I absolutly have forgotten most of it, but what stuck in my mind is that an AVS machine can do no real harm. So it was not that difficult to sit down and take the first session. And after that it was smooth sailing. The question of repressed memory's did however have me worried before I started. But that has not yet happened. My preferences are the meditative sessions [theta]. I have used a mind awake body asleep session for NP2 and enjoyed that very much. There is also the "Deeper Than a Zen Monk" user contributed session for NP2 that goes into delta. And I really enjoyed that one because it didn't ramp up at the end. It left me with that wonderful feeling you have in the morning when you just wake up. You feel the world is racing by on the highway of life and you are standing on the side. And you are deciding when you want to join the traffic. And for some fifteen minutes you can say: "Not just yet." That, by the way, is an example why I would want to edit my sessions. The default ones ramp up at the end.
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Originally Posted by
Marisa
It looks like you have a good handle on what to do here.
:)
I usualy do :icon_redface: only I don't believe it myself until I need to look at what I know/did because someone says I did well. :icon_rolleyes: For example: someone from this forum PMed me with a question and I could give a very clear answer (I think) :D If I wasn't sure I would have reffered that question to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
I love the technology and sharing my knowledge with others. I only sell in Canada but I'm motivated to contribute here because I really, really like and respect the people at Mindplace and love the products and technology. Robert, the creator of the "toys" is a brilliant man and if I could download a quarter of his knowlege ...
I know what you mean. I do like sharing my knowledge as well. Only I am prone to not considering myself good enough for the task. And if I decide to do it, I know more than enough to answer the question. That is also why I like this conversation with you. I learn a lot from it. And maybe some onlookers can bennefit as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
My dog just looks at me with a blank expression while I explain to her what I just found out about a particular brainwave. The Raven gives me a look which I translate to "get lost human" so ... the forum and answering questions is much more rewarding. :icon_wink:
Well my dog has the decensy to tilt her head. Like she is listening but doesn't understand. But I know she doesn't care what I say. Unless I mention food. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
You (your conscious mind) is in charge of your unconscious mind, not the other way around.
That is one of the reasons I asked you so much about uses for the AVS machine, as in addiction, weight loss and so on and so forth. I heard it said that the brain controls everything (or almost everything) in the body. So if you aid your brain with - or interact with it via an AVS machine you can influence other things in your body as well. Healing for example. If you feel good and are not negative about your ailment you stand a better chance of fast recovery. And feeling good is something an AVS can help you with. And it is no miracle cure to everything, I understand that. But all help is welcome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marisa
I do. Sharing information and ideas is a worthwhile expenditure of time as I often learn something in the process because I have to think about the answer and sometimes even look it up from some reference material. It keeps the knowledge current and fresh.
Glad I could be of service ;) :icon_redface: :D
Re: Learning to swim or ride a bicycle
[QUOTE=GreenDragon;2988]Hello fellow brain travellers,
What I'm coming at has two parts. First I've seen it in some toppics in this forum, something I would call meta programs. One topic mentions that if I want to learn I could use session this beforehand, then study with session that with the glasses of and then end with session so and so. I would not have thougt of combining sessions in this way.
Hi, I am also a newbie and not great with forum protocols but anyhow, I received my proteus 2 weeks ago and it seems to be bringing on some tranquility and my visual images seem to have gotten brighter and larger with a general deeper feeling whilst visualising.
I have looked at some other programs like the learning one and just wondered if I have a language CD do I play it at the same time through the aux or just use the lights and the CD. Do I use it before my CD session or after?
Most importantly as i've been scrolling through a lot of the topics looking for an answer and stumbling across GreenDragons similar'ish question, how will I find your response as I cant remeber how I got here?
thanks
diskman:eusa_think:
Re: Learning to swim or ride a bicycle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diskman
I have looked at some other programs like the learning one and just wondered if I have a language CD do I play it at the same time through the aux or just use the lights and the CD. Do I use it before my CD session or after?
The way I would do it would be to choose a learning program of the right length for your material. (from session 23 to 27) Connect your CD player through Aux and your headphone to the Proteus headphone jack. Start the session, and with a delay of 5 to 10 minutes start the CD.
But Marisa might have other suggestions. :eusa_think:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diskman
Most importantly as i've been scrolling through a lot of the topics looking for an answer and stumbling across GreenDragons similar'ish question, how will I find your response as I cant remeber how I got here?
diskman:eusa_think:
Well lets put that to the test. :D I think you get an email mentioning that I have put a reply here :hello2: (thanks to Andy for setting that up, I think)
