Hello fellow brainwaves has anyone created a session or two with high frequency binaural beats say 100htz and 200htz.If so what are your opinions results etc .Thanks have a fun day/night Moff
Printable View
Hello fellow brainwaves has anyone created a session or two with high frequency binaural beats say 100htz and 200htz.If so what are your opinions results etc .Thanks have a fun day/night Moff
Results?? I flipped my lid!!!!:eek: :icon_eyes:
hehe...J/K.
I checked with Robert from Mindplace because I wasn't sure if it was possible to do this. Here is what he said on the subject:Quote:
Originally Posted by moff
Quote:
It's not possible to do this, because differences of 100 or 200 Hz between the ears is perceived as two different pitches, possibly an interval.
In my own perception BB's disappear into the realm of discrete pitches at the high alpha range (though this depends in part on the carrier frequency--the lower it is, the smaller the possible BB range, before they are perceived as separate pitches.
You might have some fun experimenting with different carriers and beat frequencies with our nifty real-time editor software... ;-)
When it comes to carrier frequencies, I found this information: "Binaural beats are best perceived when the carrier frequency is about 440 Hertz; above that frequency they become less distinct and above about 1,000 hertz they vanish altogether. (Gerald Oster)
You can only go up to 75 hertz via the light frames on a Procyon (50 hertz on the Proteus). You can however go higher frequencies with the audio.
M.
Thanks Marissa for your investigation on the binaural beats. What is the highest bbs i can create with my procyon as i am interested to enter the realms of Gamma ,Hyper gamma and would love to know if its possible to do with the editor .I have created a session where i have off set the tone in each ear by the marge of 100 and 200 beats it seems to have not a bad effect but as you have found out maybe its just two tones constant.
Also what is a carrier wave ?and If i go 100 up in one ear from 440hz is that a bb level of 100 htz !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????, phewwwwwwww!!!!
Ta very much Adrian
You are correct in that you are justing getting the two tones. Remember, when it comes to Binaural Beats, you get the best results with Alpha and below. Binaural Beats work best in the lower frequencies.Quote:
Originally Posted by moff
You can still experiment with Gamma by cranking up the frequencies on your light frames, which go up to 75Hz (which is well into Gamma and then some). You don't need binaural beats to experience this.
No, theoretically it would be a BB of 340. If you go 540 and 440, that is a theoretical binaural 100. But ... since BBs don't work at that high of a frequency ... it's a moot point. :icon_wink:Quote:
Also what is a carrier wave ?and If i go 100 up in one ear from 440hz is that a bb level of 100 htz !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????, phewwwwwwww!!!!
Ta very much Adrian
A carrier wave is the sound (frequency) that you hear. The frequencies e frequencies that affect your brain can only be perceived and not be heard. The frequencies that affect your brain are in a range below what you can hear.
Hope this helps. If not ... keep asking.
M.
Thanks for explaining all the facts Marisa i was trying to create a session that would take me into certain states Buddhist monks do, that is gamma and hypergamma also lamda .These states have been recorded when they meditate and is what they reach when walkin for days scantilly clad through the snow melting the surrounding snow.Well i will leave those realms alone and in the heads of those Jedi of Tibet who dont use the lazy mans/womens instant meditation techniques to simulate what has taken them time and patience to develop. Thanks again all the best Adrian (moff).
I've read (in various studies) that the Buddhist monks while meditating are in an Alpha state (8-11 Hz). What's different about the state they are in and a regular person when meditating is that a sort of hyper-awareness occurs - which then allows them to do all kinds of interesting things.Quote:
Originally Posted by moff
The state of mind that you may be wanting to access is Alpha.
I was just talking to a friend of mine, who is into meditating and attaining these states as well. I'll see if I can lure him into this conversation.
Thanks for bringing it up!
M.
Hi Moff,Quote:
Originally Posted by Marisa
I have to take issue with Marisa over this. :)
Truth is, she is a really good internet friend and we are both working to align her very strong background in this area with my direct experiences that are not quite synchronised.
I strongly recommend reading through:
http://mindplacesupport.com/Downloads/REF_Alternity.pdf
On page 34 there is a table that Bruce uses to summarise the effects of differing stimulus. The areas that I relate to the effects of Zen study are (edited from table):
Lucid consciousness - 8 to 5 Hz
deep satisfaction
intense alertness
calmness & detachment
and:
New way of feeling - below 4 Hz
intuitive insight
synthesis of opposites
into higher unity
The table has another field giving further relevant comment.
I'm finding that I see things that correspond to Bruce's descriptions by using either Holosync and Imramma Focus binaural audio tracks. These claim to use delta stimulus. I've not found the same effects using any of the inbuilt Procyon sessions.
My personal viewpoint is that meditation cultivates much better usage of the brain over time. This includes forming many new neural connections between left and right hemispheres. AVS and binaural audio (I believe) massively accelerate this process but there is still a time period for the major part to occur which is measured in months (rather than years as in traditional meditation).
I also suspect that the balance between the dominant stimulus region and the other regions is a very strong factor.
My focus will be on finding what the audio is actually doing in terms of effective stimulus so that I can generate an AVS replicator. AVS is far more forceful which is good if you wish to save time or top up the aftereffects during the day.
In relation to Gamma stimulus I would expect you to find this very stressful. If you find this to be the case then I recommend trying either some concurrent Alpha at a lower level or to cycle between the Gamma and Alpha states.
I would also suggest that having found something that is giving effect that you persist using it over time to allow your neurons to develop as a result of the new stimulus.
Hope you find something useful in this :)
Bob
BOB thanks for sharing your knowledge with me i will give that pdf a good look over Allan Watts i see is mentioned in the opening pages (well his name) what a bloke.I understand that Gamma is a high level frequency and you could associate its effects with over use of Beta stressful that is.I only pursued this idea as i found a few researches where "scientists" cough! have measured brainwave freq in Buddhist monks revealing they enter into the Gamma states and higher.Anyway as i posted earlier i also found out that these Gamma states ride on the back of the Epsillon range have you any expierience or knowledge of this range effects etc 05 htz and below.I have also used the first Awakening set of Holosync and found it resurfaced alot of buried stuff in my subconscious. Thanks again for your reply and all the best sincerely Adrian (moff).
Hello, all--
There has been some relatively recent publications which indicate that long-term meditation can increase gamma synchrony; gamma oscillations are though by some researchers to allow oscillating networks in the brain to 'bind' together for brief periods of time.
One of these studies can be accessed here:
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/101/46/16369
Just click the "PDF" link to view the paper.
Although it's not possible to use binaural beats to increase gamma synchrony, it could be possible to use flickering light to do so, and I hope that some intrepid researchers are studying this now.
-Robert
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob
Actually the only thing we are not agreeing on is the use of Delta waves. I maintain that the Delta range (.5 to 3 Hz) is associated with sleep, unconscious processing and healing. I don't see any use for it in meditation or attaining higher brain states (other than the benefits to the brain that sleep provide).
:cool: :tongue3:
M.
Hi Adrian,Quote:
Originally Posted by moff
If you appreciate Mr Watts then you should also like Thomas Merton's earlier wittings on Zen.
I have well worn copies of DT Suzuki's English publications and there are some really well expressed essays in the Soto Master Shinru Suzuki's little book. All worth reading through. (I'm not able to declare that I am Buddhist, although observation of my approach to life would match well :)
)
I'm pleased to hear that you are familiar with Holosync. It stirs up the unconscious which is what happens with traditional meditation (but at a much slower pace). Marisa has the very correct view that we have no idea what is happening when we use this. I find that Holosync and similar leave me really focussed and fiercely aware of the outside world but with a detached viewpoint. Maybe I'm generating some gamma...
The Procyon seems a really versatile tool for generating stimulus to investigate this area. We have binaural sound plus three independent colour channels all with adjustable modulation. I suggest using strong stimulus from one main domain as this reflects the observed patterns from studies but suspect that the balance in relation to the other stimulus is important also.
Also worth mentioning here (and complementary to Robert's reply) is that audio has an effect on a much smaller and not completely similar brain region to visual stimulus. The effects (both perceived and longterm) are likely to differ.
Meditation raises stress threshold by a large amount given time. If you find Gamma stressful at present you may find that this changes with time, so maybe try again after some months.
I'm really pleased that this topic is expanding into diverse areas driven by people with open but investigative minds. Thanks for you input (and much appreciation intended to Marisa for provoking me to explain clearly what the hell I'm on about :) )
Bob
You might find the book "Zen and the Brain" quite interesting and informative. It's by James Austin, M.D., a neuroscientist and long time Zen practioner. Huge book, over 800 pages, MIT Press. Fascinating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob
Also, "The Mindful Brain" by Daniel Siegel, M.D. And then, of course, the Jon Kabbat-Zinn books on mindfulness meditation.
I've been practicing yoga for over ten years, meditating about as long (but not consistently) and am now reading the Jon Kabbat-Zinn stuff and attempting to practice mindfulness meditation. I say attempting, because it seems quite different from the meditation I'm used to doing, which, although it starts off fairly "mindful" -- after 30-60 minutes of yoga, which is pretty mindful, but it then seems to me that what I'm doing in my meditation is actually self-hypnosis, rather than the type of meditation Kabbat-Zinn is teaching.
I'm not disputing you on this, but I recently got a CD produced by Dr. Jeffry Thompson, called "Gamma Meditation System". The booklet that comes with it talks (briefly) on some of the same stuff in the paper you mention. I haven't listened to the CD enough to really give it a good test. He says "the brainwave entrainment pulses woven into the Gamma Meditation System are at a frequency of 40 Hz."Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Austin
Hey hseaver;Quote:
Originally Posted by hseaver
I didn't read the article, but I'm wondering if he was talking about "binaural beats"? Seems to me that's all Robert is saying is that binaurals can't be done at that high a frequency, but certainly using lights or other methods may work.
I'm stepping out of my element here, but thought I'd ask that question...Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Austin
:dontknow:
-Andy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy
Well, that's what I wondering too. He never calls it "binaural beats", but talks about "acoustic brainwave entrainment", and says: "Research has shown that specific states of consciousness can be induced through hearing sound pulses that match the brainwave frequency of that particular state of mind. Based on this scientifically tested principle, inaudible sound frequency patterns are woven into every soundtrack on Gamma Meditation System recording. When your brain senses these hidden pulses, your brainwaves will tend to match them..."
He also talks about "3-Dimensional Recording Process". I wonder if I fed it into audacity or mind workstation if I would be able to see if it has binaural beats or not? I'm pretty inexperienced with both of those programs though.
Well, I gave that CD a real try yesterday, right after my last post, in fact, still sitting in my chair at the computer. It certainly does something. I'm not sure about the gamma, seemed more like deep delta. But I followed the instructions, and starting meditating along with the first track (there are only two) as I usually do, counting my breaths. Went fairly quickly into a sort of dream state and then just totally out.
So out, in fact, that my wife was calling me for supper and I never heard her, she actually started looking for me outside, in the basement, couldn't figure out where I went to that I couldn't hear her, finally came to the computer room where she found me zonked out in my chair with the CD still going (probably one reason I couldn't hear her) but she had to speak to me about 4 times before I woke up. She said she was almost going to check my pulse.
Now I was a little tired, and I do trance out easy, but I was sort of amazed at the effect -- first purely audio session I've tried that seemed to effect me strongly. OTOH, I would not expect gamma to put me into a deep sleep. Maybe I was tireder than I thought, but I hadn't been thinking of taking a nap or anything before that, so ...
I guess it would be interesting to try to create a SyncroMuse session that went along with it.
I think you are right in that there was more delta in that track to take you so deep. Gamma would be too arousing. Perhaps there are small segments of gamma mixed in the cd. I do know that anything that takes you that deep is Theta/Delta related ... especially if you feel groggy when you come out of the session.Quote:
Originally Posted by hseaver
M.
http://www.bethcoleman.net/gamma.html
This site explains the relations between Epsilon and the Gamma frequencies just thought it might make an informative read. Epsilon range of frequencies seems a very interesting combination to investigate useing the Procyon anyone want to play???!!
:D
Interesting discussion here guys (n gals).Quote:
Originally Posted by moff
One thing to remember is that perceived binaural beats are outside the normal hearing range of say 20Hz to 15-20kHz of the ear, so anything about 20Hz or above is simply heard as a tone or intervals as noted by Robert. So a binaural beat below 20Hz (from two pitches 20Hz apart) has been created by the brain, whereas a 100Hz difference between 100 and 200Hz is simply heard as an interval, or more correctly harmonic (200 = 2x 100) in this case where the tone is enhanced with some resonance.
Great reading refs here for my Amazon wish/reserve list! Almost time for yet another order. Waiting on four books now. :eek:
These "brainwave entrainment pulses" are equivalent to a monotonous drum beat, being in the low bass audio range. So Jeffrey is creating them from audio and they obviously have the same entrancing effect as any other such audible beat. Nothing to do with binaural beats. The guy is playing with audio, and his words, to make it 'sound' better. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by hseaver