Need a STRONG preset!

Hello, I just got my AVS machine, first time user; long time user of audio entrainment.
I hope to see significant improvements with visual stimulation as well, so far not feeling it.
I tried out one tribal one for 5 mins, nothing, but thats only 5 minutes.
I then did "create" for 20 minutes, didn't feel a thing, pretty dissapointed right now.
I need a preset that I will definately feel, either it being visualizations/creativity/or stimulation.
Please someone advise the strongest presets to use to feel the power of this baby!
Thanks in advance.

Hello and welcome to the forum.

It would help a great deal in answering your question if you could explain a little bit more by what you mean by the word 'STRONG'. Like are you comparing it to the dosage of a drug and you want the strongest drug you can find? If so, then it doesn't really work that way. At least the comparison wouldn't be the same. iDoser made sessions seem like drugs and that is marketing BS my friend.

Now on the other hand if you mean the most stimulating, then I would suggest A Starlit Night in the Mind Art category. By stimulating I mean that it ramps between ranges of high alpha and beta to create a great deal of visual illusions. That particular session also uses all of the lights at one time in most segments, thus it is the brightest too. In fact, many of the sessions in the Mind Art category are designed for their visual effects.

I also find that as far as 'Strong' goes the Sirius sessions in the KBS folder use a lot of high beta and some gamma and are very strong meaning fast flicker, very bright (with the right ColorSet).

However, let me suggest to you that the true pleasure of an AVS machine is found with use where you acquire the ability to recognize subtle colors and patterns. I have found with myself and many people that there is a crossover point (think of it like the cross eyed 'Mind's Eye dot stereogram illusions) where you have to adapt and learn to see them to a degree but once you do then a whole new 'dimension' opens up.

Having said all that, you must also realize that this is a consumer machine meant for broad appeal. That means that the factory sessions are more like flavors, and most are 'comfort food', that is they lean toward the relaxing and pleasant (although again the Mind Art category pushes this a bit). So much 'stronger' sessions are possible... if I knew what you meant by that.

So I guess the question would be, is it more intense music that you want? Is it faster, brighter flicker? Or you just want a magic button, drug-like experience without having to put any effort in? Since you have said you have experience with audio entrainment then give me an example of a session that you like.

The point is that I am willing to create a session that meets your criteria. We try to appeal to a broad base, but like everything this is our first 'offerings' and we will continue to adapt content as we get more feedback.

At the same time, try out a broader range of sessions to get a feel for the experience so that we can speak the same language.

Scotto

Hello, what I meant as far as "strong" goes is psychologically, not so much visual but state of mind change. I was hoping entrainment to frequencies would be like 10x stronger or so I heard, is the entrainment power really that much stronger with avs than audio alone? thats what I was looking for. I want to use this for my depression and anxiety issues and some halucinating would be cool a bit. Sorry for the confusion.

It would be hard to put an actual multiplication factor (10x) on the addition of visual stimulation, at least without knowing the particular modalities of your cognitive, physiological, psychological makeup. But let's put it this way, you are increasing the stimulation to 2 major sensory systems, auditory and visual. So it follows that you are getting a much greater neural response. A great deal of 'pattern' sensing neurons are concentrated in the visual centers and the effects of entrainment (frequency following response) are well documented with flashing light.

Now for a moment let's think that 'entrainment' is really pattern following as listening to a song and following the beat. When you hear the song for the first time you are able to easily and naturally pick up the rhythm. In fact, you do this subconsciously whether you realize it or not. If it is a catchy song it might alter your mood and you might even be humming it afterwards. You have the rough outline of the song..

Now listen to that song several more times and you really begin to understand it, memorize it, deconstruct it. You learn the changes, the lyrics, and often you will begin to hear details that you never heard before with each new listen. Up to a point... then the song may become stale... But you like that form of music, you like that artist whatever... so you find a new song that is in a similar style but a bit different.

That is overly simple but maybe the idea is there? Add a good music video to that song or a scene from a movie, commercial, whatever.. or have a strong memory of an event, a lover, a strong emotion and it digs in even deeper.

If you read more of my posts you will see that I strongly encourage people to participate along with the stimulus of our machines. We now have musical moods, tied to visual colors, tied to stimulating frequencies. Use these to your advantage. You like the ocean? Go to a mental beach scene with the help of an audio session. You like rain or space or futuristic scenes? Let the colors and patterns of the lights suggest images to you. Reds might be sunlight, green forest scenes, blue water, etc.. Don't wait for the images to happen (they will) but at first 'create' the images in your mind along with the session.

If you are depressed decide for this small amount of time each day when I use this machine I will work to not be depressed. I will fill my mind with as many positive images as I can. I like this song... this song makes me happy.... Fake it till you make it... Now, I know that depression is a medical condition and difficult to overcome and work with. Let's not pretend that it isn't. Or that anything I am saying will 'cure' it. But you want to find relief and try right? You bought this machine to help you, work with it.

Now depression and anxiety are on different areas of the spectrum. One is a lower brain wave state and the other is overly active brain state. It is common to move between these two. Seek the middle. That is the stable point. When you feel yourself move one way, look back toward the center.

Where these machines are most helpful is for us to find a quiet comfortable space that we can build on. It starts with self experimentation and being open to doing a bit of positive work.

The 'strong' is in you. I suggest to try some of the sessions that have strong alpha frequencies- mid to upper. Try Patternity and the sessions in the Rejuvenate folder to start.. Did you like A Starlit Night.. those higher frequencies might have made you a bit anxious? Tell us your results and we can help make suggestions.

Note: not diagnoses, not treatment, but suggestions of things to try. Others please pipe in too.

Sorry for the long and wordy post. I try to get ideas specific to you but also applicable in general.

Scotto

A starlight didnt do anything for me which is odd as I usually respond well to entrainment tracks. I was trying to figure out the whole time if it was doing beta or alpha, seemed fast pace but I wasnt getting any more alert. The lights were just a bit annoying and werent doing anything for me. I did like 13/15 minutes and quit, didnt feel anything. I have a few mp3 entrainment tracks, how can I get it converted to audiostrobe / spectrastrobe?

Ok, so mark that one off your list for now. 'I didn't feel anything' is first of all impossible.... as you felt something. You felt unsatisfied. It didn't give you the experience you wanted at the moment. Start a process of being exact in your definitions. That will help you find what you do like.

If you were trying to figure out what the frequencies were then you were very alert... more alert than you wanted to be. You were calculating, comparing.. just guessing from what you are saying. So you want to be more alert than that?

So try another one... try Patternity for visuals... I say these because I made them and have gotten very good feedback about them from people that know me and people that don't (by others that played the preset for someone)

Try to judge what you like and what you don't like. Figure out why. Read this thread on alterness sessions. The user reported positive results with this technique.

Do you know the frequencies of the audio that you have?

Also be aware that there is another category of sessions that will appear in due course. As what might best be called a "psychonaut", many of my sessions are, shall we say, an acquired taste. The sessions of mine that have been included on the SD such as Create conform closely to the "best practice", established by Transparent Corp, after the most extensive accumulation of viable data I am aware of. The other couple of mine on the SD, Vapor Chill and Submerge, though heavily beat oriented, rely on the beat only to reinforce the intent of the session, with the other sounds intended to sufficiently complex and/or repetitive as to engage the analytical aspect of mind, opening the way for less inhibited thought. The intent is decided by you, before and during the onset of the session, and you will enter the session having a clear conception of what would constitute a meaningful or useful result.

After many years as a technician/engineer maintaining a multitude of technologies, there is nothing that is less effective in getting a prompt than "It doesn't work". In the case of AVS/BWE sessions, the brain is our individuality - once size does not come close to fitting all. If you desire more persuasive stimulus than typical, then you are going to have to look outside the comfy bit of the bell curve and be willing to listen to a lot of material, a lot of times over, while discovering what your brain does when you feed it different patterns of sound and light.

These are rants I've always wanted to make, but there have always been limitations imposed by the commercial technology - Kasina imposes no reasonable limits on creativity, and will grow in features and capability with firmware updates over the course of its life. Wait till you see it open-eye - I've only used one of the prototypes and I'm not sure where that decision is going, but what I've seen rocks!!!

Be patient. Have fun. Be surprised when what you desire comes about as soon as you stop trying for it.

Cheers,
Craig

Keep in mind that the strongest form of auditory entrainment is a click- a sound that abruptly starts and stops. The same goes for photic stimulation. The problem is that clicks are unpleasant to listen to, almost impossible for long periods. They also produce harmonics in the brain, meaning a stimulus at 10Hz will also show increased activity at 20, 30, 40, and maybe even a subharmonic of 5Hz. While this may be desirable for sessions designed to produce excitement and energy, it is not effective tor relaxation sessions where the aim is to lower brainwaves into alpha or theta. For these cases a sine wave is used, not as strong, but effective for the purpose.

Also background sounds and music can compete with the entrainment. Strait tones and light are going to produce the strongest response. But again, these are not a lot of fun to listen to. The effect can be minimized by using Transparent's patented technology that actually embeds entrainment modulations into the sound track itself. If you are looking into a "strong" session, use isochronic beats and light only, with maybe some brown noise to smooth it out a bit. Use square, or optimized square waveforms when doing beta sessions, and set the volume /brightness as high as comfortable.

I have some Idoser MP3 files, ive had sucess with idoser files like the mary jane one and pain killer ones. I do not know the specific frequencies unfortunately.
Is there a program to convert to AVS?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by neuroasis

Ok, so mark that one off your list for now. 'I didn't feel anything' is first of all impossible.... as you felt something. You felt unsatisfied. It didn't give you the experience you wanted at the moment. Start a process of being exact in your definitions. That will help you find what you do like.

If you were trying to figure out what the frequencies were then you were very alert... more alert than you wanted to be. You were calculating, comparing.. just guessing from what you are saying. So you want to be more alert than that?

So try another one... try Patternity for visuals... I say these because I made them and have gotten very good feedback about them from people that know me and people that don't (by others that played the preset for someone)

Try to judge what you like and what you don't like. Figure out why. Read this thread on alterness sessions. The user reported positive results with this technique.

Do you know the frequencies of the audio that you have?

---

Hi,

iDoser isn't one of the more likely-to-work concepts (AVS isn't like drugs, the brain doesn't spew chemicals on demand, there are no switches at precise population-wide frequencies, and detailed mind states cannot be predictably induced (apart from unconsciousness, coma and death)). If you have iDoser sessions that work for you, don't mess with them - anything you do is unlikely to improve their effectiveness for you. The included sessions, and the information on the MindPlace and Transparent Corp sites provide more than enough to start modifying existing sessions and creating new sessions to suit You. It is also really surprising how well the basic sessions (all the ones with "ordinary" names, the ones where the names clearly suggest purpose) work when used over a period of time. How long? Depends on whether you get into the session or find yourself remaining in the critical state - if you have much of an opinion on the session it's probably not working below 10Hz and above, suggests you're not focused on what you're using SMR/beta for. Also depends on whether your perceived need for enhancement in a particular area is valid, realistic and addressable by modification of gross brainwave activity. Depends on your personal response to a particular set of stimuli. Listening to a variety of pieces quickly reveals what types and patterns of sound and light have the highest impact.

If you want an incredible list of frequencies, check out http://lunarsight.com/freq.htm . If you do decide to have a play with some of these frequencies, do stop back here to discuss (before, after or during) - there is so much wring with that frequency table it's beyond belief, but it does introduce some introducing ideas, including that or correspondence, which is an invaluable aid to reinforcing intent.

Cheers,
Craig

Cheers,
Craig

Alright! My turn to rant!

<snark>I really should have called a session M3GAmphetamine and then it would have worked</snark>

Really, ok so those sessions work for you... great. Doesn't not make them 100% BS.. loud binaural beats with very simple ramps is all they are (reportedly from an engine built on an uncredited licensing violation). The next version of the KBS editor will import GNaural presets. I suggest you Google the terms SBAGen, GNaural, and iDoser.. you will learn a lot of things for yourself. Sorry to be harsh, really.... pet peeve alert.

Check out more sessions on the Kasina until then...

placebo,
Scotto

I'm feeling a bit more charitable now that Friday the 13th has passed on this shore.. try the Sirius presets in the KBS folder... if you like iDoser you will probably like them. Or at least that would give an approximation of what iDoser would be like with light stimulation.

>>...Wait till you see it open-eye - I've only used one of the prototypes and I'm not sure where that decision is going, but what I've seen rocks!!!<<

Dear Craig,

Ref 'open eye' can you use appropriate Attention/Focus sessions to actually work while the open-eye glasses are operating? If so, this may help us focus on critical work and discourage distractions(?).

Am I right? And if so, when can we expect to get open-eye frames for the Kasina?! No doubt we may have to limit time spent in 'open-eye'. Obviously not suitable for shopping and such. :)

Richard
Hong Kong

Eye open in this case refers to glasses with diffusers that are meant to be used with your eyes open so you can fully experience the incredible range of colors and patterns the Kasina produces. Similar to the LaxMan goggles. We have a couple of prototypes that are being considered. The experience is really amazing.

Now the hemi-stim (or whatever Photosonix called it) clear see-through glasses are a different thing entirely. There has been discussion and prototypes of glasses that do this but nothing has been settled and there has not been movement lately. May or may not see the light of day (pun intended)

Hi Richard,

As Neuro says, open-eye generally refers to diffuse fields, modeled on the ganz feld effect. I have only used one of the Kasina open-eye prototypes - briliant.

The effect you're seeking is entirely valid. Transparent used to sell the see-thru glasses made by AvStim - they are available in blue or white led and have a number of LEDs arranged around the field of vision. You may recall me mentioning a trifield design, recognising the true left/centre/right arrangement of each eye. I am currently working on a see-thru version which would do the job just fine. Chances are it will be so simple it could be a DIY job.

Wandering around with SMR/beta flickering in the periphery seems to do no harm when engaged in appropriate tasks. I have enjoyed quiet walks with alpha or even theta flickering. Alpha/theta provide an interesting tool for designers or artists - a way to look at the world and the workpiece a little differently. See-thru delta has the potential to be useful in conjunction with open-eye focus (candle or point-on-the-wall) type meditation.

Cheers,
Craig

Thanks Scott and Craig,

Ahh... I see! Yes, I have played around with a diffuse field using a small (unused!) white handkerchief wrapped around the Procyon frames. Will try out on my Kasina too now my memory has been jogged.

But yes, real open eye is what I would love for online trading work that demands intense concentration. Should have opened a new thread perhaps, but very keen to hear how your experiments go Craig. I will buy one, or build one if you come up with goods. Use for mindfulness meditation as you describe is also a strong need for me.

I was playing SpectraStrobe session audio only on my speakers last night while online, and did seem to be helping to quieten me down. More work needed here.

Thanks for your clarification guys.