Printable View
My Proteus galsses are broken. I need to order new ones. I was a bit dissapointed in the red ones to be honest as I did not really get a kalaidesope of colour more staying in the red green silver mode. I prefer to be trying out the relaxation modes. Is there an improvement in the red green from say 2006 and am I better to go for green / blue instead?
Hi Moonchild,
No one else answered so I will jump in. Note: I do not have a Proteus (although this is seeming to become a necessity). Also, I am not a representative of the company...but I will give it a shot and hopefully someone with more info will correct me or add to it.
The current frames offered by Mindplace are the Ganzframes. The link is here http://www.mindplace.com/Ganzframes . I do not know if these are the glasses that came with your 2006 unit or not. I do know that they are very comfortable compared to the early Sirius frames I have. The light is better distributed and they don't dig into your nose. They are more stylish and like sunglasses.
As far as color, you might like the Ruby/Sapphire frames over the Ruby/Emerald. There doesn't appear to be a choice for Sapphire/Emerald.
In my experience with the Procyon which has Ruby/Emerald/Sapphire the Ruby and Emerald are very pronounced while the Sapphire is less intense. By itself it is perceived as dark and it takes the eyes a while to sense the blue amongst the darkness produced when the eyes are closed. The blue mixes well with other colors for subtle shades of violet and purple.
The Ruby is a very dominant color and this is reinforced by the 'red' filter effect of our eyelids. It is the source of brightness but could possibly be overwhelming. Certainly it takes strong precedence over the other colors in a mix.
The factory programs on the Proteus would have been designed for the Ruby/Emerald glasses and I assume that with the change of colors Sapphire would simply be substituted for Emerald in the programming. This may not always have the intended effect. (meaning the colors would be different, the pulsing and entrainment aspects would probably still hold)
Anyway, that is what I know. Please ask more questions and I will answer if I can.
Thank you Neuroasis.
That is very helpful. :cheers:
I thought that my use will be more predisposed to the blue green of the colour spectrum but realise that the programmes will have been instigated with the red emereld in mind.
I hope to get a Procyion in due course but for now have to use my Proteus. Of course the solution would be to have two pairs of glasses but circumstances will not allow that at present.:icon_rolleyes:
I am still swithering between a replacement red ./ green as they seem to have improved since 2006 and to hope to get some red / blue soon.
Thanks very much for your input.
I must say when I first got the glasses I was hoping that the colours would be incredible covering the whole spectrum so with tthat in mind if anyone can tell me what the Procion is like in this regard I would be very grateful.
From what I have observed in using and programming AVS machines there is much more going on than just the colors of the leds in the glasses. I have already mentioned it but the red filter effect of the eyelids takes all light somewhat in that direction. Go out in the bright sunlight and close your eyes and it will be obvious.
Now that is not to say that other colors don't have an effect. Green comes through nicely for me but blue is a much more subtle thing. I did determine the trick of looking downward to engage more of the blue cones in the eye and this brings out blues and purples a whole lot more.
I'm not sure if this is just me but I suppose I will rope some people in for some testing.
Having said that, I do see the full range of colors at one time or another. I did so in a smaller degree with white glasses on the Sirius and red glasses on the Muse Sharp. Especially in the red only glasses (which aren't nearly as bright as the Ganzframes) There is really no physiological reason to sense other colors as they are not present in the input besides the deviation from true red. Now that doesn't mean that the stimulation of the light source is not causing other color cones to fire.
What I am attempting to understand is the role that 'biophotons' play in the perception of colors. These are the after-images that we see after looking at a bright light source. These biophotons fade throughout the range of the full spectrum of color. Just look at a bright bulb for a seconds and then look away into blank space and you will see a floating ball of fading colors all the way up the spectrum from red to orange to yellow to green to blue to indigo to violet. This is a fascinating subject and in the future I have much more to say about it.
Why I bring it up is that this 'biophoton' effect could account for a lot of the inward color perception we experience during sessions.
I am working with ways to induce and exploit this mechanism to greatest effect.
So, basically, it seems that the brighter that you can stand the lights the better the colors you will ultimately perceive. I am attempting to learn to provide boosters then dropoff periods to enhance the color perception.
I would love to hear others thoughts and experiences with these ideas...
Very thought provoking.:banana:
I must admit I have often wondered if the inner landscapes and the ability to recognise colour were very much dependant on each individual brain. I think that must be the case. I was disappointed in the imagery although there were many times of course I found it fantastic but those times were few and far between..
I finally realised that I was probably confusing the imagery and patterns of sacred geometry and mandalas which have a way about them of leading the brain into trance and other realities. Those things are more to be found in self hypnoses I reckon.
I understand now, that it is the pulse of light which does this not the imagery.
I have seen some wonderful 3D imagery which would lead the brain very easly into trance but that is not what this machine is all about.
I know that the red is the dominant colour for inducing imagery behind closed eyes but I still need to know whether someone such as myself........who wants to explore deep realms of say theta /delta waves...is better to have the red / blue as opposed top the standard red / green.
I welcome any help :)
Thanks for persisting and letting us know that we did not answer your question satisfactorily.
Here is a good thread where Marisa provides her assessment of the difference in glasses: http://mindplacesupport.com/forum/sh...=ruby+sapphire
She is a dealer so has tried them all. Basically she says red/green for best visuals and red/blue good for relaxation and meditation.
The thread links to a blog post where CraigT has a breakdown of the technology and major glasses. This post is from 2009.
http://craigtavs.wordpress.com/2009/...h-the-machine/
His final thoughts on frames:
"In case I?ve failed to make it entirely clear, the MindPlace GanzFrames, monocolour, bicolour or tricolour are my absolute favourites ? brightest, most comfortable and most even illumination."
In this thread: http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...read.php?t=948
CraigT says:
"Red/green is pretty much the Audiostrobe standard, and gives a good, bright general purpose display. I use red/blue a lot - I've set my Procyon to do red/blue AS - as I find it gives the best contrast and results in some very interesting after images."
Based on the theory I mentioned above I believe this would be true.
I am sorry that I am at a disadvantage of only having tested some of the frames and not all of them.
Hey Moonchild,
I figured out from research that I can set the Procyon to work as a red/blue unit at least for Audiostrobe. Also many of the Proteus programs have been converted to the Procyon. So I might be able to simulate the red/blue glasses (besides led position on the frames). I am looking into to it and if I get some reasonable results for comparison I will let you know.
(run on sentence alert!)
Also, it would seem to me that:
if your goal is deep entrainment in the lower ranges of theta and possibly delta
and
you find the lights a distraction
but
still want to use them as a reinforcing agent for entrainment
then
yes red/blue would be a good combination.
I say this because blue will certainly provide a nice subtle relaxing entrainment pulse.
Hello folks
Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I hope to get a Procion sometime in July but already I am worried about understanding the instructions.:icon_rolleyes:
What seems straighforward to you who obviously know what you are doing...is not so straightforward to the general public.
Since coming on here I have learnt so much about the different programs by the info given, which was not given in the basic instructions. I think for instance that most people want to know which modes are best for self help as this is a huge industry now. I know it says something but it could be expanded upon.
There seems also to be conflicting info about the Procion being able to tune into independant cds and this is misleading too.:dontknow:I read the other day in an advert for the Procion that it had that capacity but know from another thread that it does not and that is not very helpful :icon_rolleyes:
I feel in all honesty this is of huge importance as many people want to use the mind machines in tandem with their own self improvement tapes (I know I do!)
The glasses issue has been confusing but I am getting the hang of it now.:hello2:
I understand that the red / green is the best general combination..............
and that if the lights are too stimulating then I have the option of turning them down. I prefer the lights on full blast...... for for some reason I seem to need this in order to have any patterns at all. I have mentioned many times that with the red / green my colour spectrum is usually that.....with silver thrown in.
I had hoped I would have had a much greater spectrum of colours and again I ask is this a peculiarity of the individual brain?:eusa_think:
My work as healer often involves colour, as of course this is vibration and the effects of colour on the emotions is very well documented.:)
I do enjoy the stimulating programs but my preference is to explore the deeper realms of the mind and so I do think that blue and green would be more benificial.
I was wondering why the glasses that are supplied with the Procion are not able to be used with the Proteus?
I am sure there is a very good reason.:)
I feel that altering the mind is leading edge stuff and that it is also life changing if used properly. This is why I feel so passionately about the instructions being simpler so that ther machines are easier to use.
The ideal for me for instance would be to plug in some beautiful music which could synch with the lower brainwaves or that my self help mp3's would synch and lead me into the approprite level of entrainment along with beautiful soothing colours.
BTW I have been interested in this for many years. I used to own the very early light and sound machine (name evades me for now) and have also used bio-feedback machines for probably 30 years.
Thanks for your time :cheers:
All new things are confusing at first and this is a field for explorers. We must all learn from and teach each other.
Personally, I am very happy with the amount of documentation and resources that have been made available for Mindplace machines. Of course there is always room for improvement.
That is what this forum is for. It is a fantastic place to get more in depth information or find an answer to your specific question.
For using your own music, I think Mind Stereo from Transparent Corp is the easiest way to go. It is a music player that embeds brainwave entrainment and generates Audiostrobe signals. http://www.transparentcorp.com/products/mindstereo/ There is a trial version available.
Load your music, pick a session, hook up your Proteus to sync the light flashes and you are good to go!
Using 'record what you hear' on your Soundcard in Windows or something like Total Recorder you can record these streams and burn them to cd or make a file that is compatible with a portable player (encode mp3 at a very high bitrate like 320kbps as you could lose the AS signal)
There are still things I have to work out and test but that is what I suggest to get you started.
Keep those questions coming and don't be discouraged.
Hello Neuroasis
Thanks so much for your understanding and your enthusiam is catching.:icon_wink:
I will look into that link and once I get my new glasses take it from there.
I am going to persevere until I get the hang of it :icon_twisted:
Alison
If true, I hope we can improve on the instructions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchild
That's the purpose of these forums. To expand on the information in the manuals. The manuals are for basic operation. 99% of people use the products stand-alone and have no need for advanced programming and other advanced techniques. It would be impossible to write a manual that covered all the aspects of advanced usage of the MP products, since their capabilities are huge. The products are designed to be simple to use, but also capable of advanced functions and programming. To get to the advanced stage takes some reading and learning. Similar to using a computer and then programming one.:eusa_dance:Quote:
Since coming on here I have learnt so much about the different programs by the info given, which was not given in the basic instructions. I think for instance that most people want to know which modes are best for self help as this is a huge industry now. I know it says something but it could be expanded upon.
Can you link those threads for me? I'd like to see what you're referring to.Quote:
There seems also to be conflicting info about the Procion being able to tune into independant cds and this is misleading too.:dontknow:I read the other day in an advert for the Procion that it had that capacity but know from another thread that it does not and that is not very helpful :icon_rolleyes:
For those that do, the product is quite capable in that area.Quote:
I feel in all honesty this is of huge importance as many people want to use the mind machines in tandem with their own self improvement tapes (I know I do!)
You are correct! :icon_wink: The Procyon Ganzframes are 3-color, the others are 2-color or 2-channel (L/R). The Procyon also has a different Ganzframe connector than the Proteus and Sirius.Quote:
I was wondering why the glasses that are supplied with the Procion are not able to be used with the Proteus?
I am sure there is a very good reason.:)
Would you be willing to help with instructions or a tutorial? It would be good to know which things in the manual need to be expanded on.Quote:
I feel that altering the mind is leading edge stuff and that it is also life changing if used properly. This is why I feel so passionately about the instructions being simpler so that ther machines are easier to use.
Sounds like AudioStrobe (AS). Many AS CDs are available for that very purpose. Of course with software like NeuroProgrammer from Transparent, one can create their own AS discs if one so desires.Quote:
The ideal for me for instance would be to plug in some beautiful music which could synch with the lower brainwaves or that my self help mp3's would synch and lead me into the approprite level of entrainment along with beautiful soothing colours.
I'd be interested to hear your suggestions.Quote:
I feel that the Proteus could be made more user friendly and so would be more appealing to more people. ;)
-Andy.
I believe Moonchild is referring to this line in the Procoyon product descriptions:
"We?ve also added a unique new capability: the ability to precisely synchronize audio material on compact disc or MP3 with a Procyon program. This feature, called SynchroMuse?, is like an advanced version of AudioStrobe?, but allows full color control?ideal for use with color-work, language learning, hypnotherapy, personal growth, music, etc."
http://www.mindplace.com/MindPlace-Procyon-AVS-System
I have read discussion threads on the board about this before. It is accurate but a little misleading. People assume plug and play so much these days.
What I would think would help people quite a bit is a 'feature matrix' for the Mindplace machines. All four products side by side with columns of features and a check mark if the product has this feature.
Each Mindplace product is unique unto itself. It is not like you are just getting a few upgraded features with the higher priced units.
Each machine does things that the others don't. A feature matrix would bring this out more clearly.
That's a great idea! I intend to get a Procion but still have my Proteus. ;)
I do not know the difference really apart from the tri colour etc sio that would be very helpful :hello2:
I'll work on that when I get a minute and post it up here.
-Andy.
You are a gem Andy!:eusa_clap:
You could not be more helpful.
Product Matrix completed. http://www.mindplacesupport.com/cont...eatures-Matrix
Thanks very much to Neuroasis for getting the ball rolling on this! :cheers:
Hi all,
Excuse my ignorance as I am quite a novice (this is my first post :eek:!), but there has been a great deal of talk about red/green/blue frames in this thread and in CraigT's wonderful summary - but am curious to know what the benefits are of the white ganzframes relative to these others?
Can I also confirm that these cannot be used with the Procyon?
PS. Great comparison Andy!
Thanks!
Great job on the Product Matrix Andy!
White frames were considered at one time to produce a better range of 'virtual' colors for sessions. They were a next step beyond the red frames that were initially available. Now with a unit like the Procyon or Proteus we can produce a huge range of colors. Still, some people may prefer white. Chime in if so!
The description on the Mindplace page about White Ganzframes says only Proteus and Sirius. To be honest, I don't know why.. Andy?
Due to the connector on the Rev1 and Rev2 Procyon, an adapter is needed to operate 2-channel lightframes on the Procyon. One of the big selling features of the Procyon is the 3-color capability, so typically most people aren't looking to operate 2-channel lightframes on that device. That being said, it is completely possible to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by neuroasis