can anybody suggest me a kundalini awakening session for proteus or if not then a binaural sound file?
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can anybody suggest me a kundalini awakening session for proteus or if not then a binaural sound file?
If by Kundalini Awakening, you mean total conscious awareness, then anywhere from low theta to alpha, even spikes of SMR, could work. The Schumann frequencies would be excellent candidates.
Theta is your hypnagogic awareness - dream forms, confusing illusion and reality. Alpha is true detached conscious awareness. SMR crosses into low beta and might raise your consciousness enough to be get a bit of objectivity and to remember bits of the theta state more clearly.
These are the frequencies that are attributed to these sort of things. Entrainment can help increase brainwave activity in the chosen frequency band. Entrainment works - most people's brains will entrain within 6 minutes. What you do whilst entrained is up to you, whether you want to contemplate health, wealth and happiness, or see what your subconscious dishes up for your inspection, alpha/theta is the place to play.
There's so many accounts of Kundalini experiences that just don't make any sense. I hope you are well prepared for success.
Craig
dear sir, by kundalini awakening i mean spiritual evolution which eventually give you full cosmic awareness what is known as superconsciousness or samadhi in sanskrit,can you suggest any session for that?
Then yes, the alpha/theta range, and you will have to find your own frequencies by trial - we are each unique, is the safest strategy.
The gamma range is said to be associated with higher spiritual states, however in my opinion it is more associated with human consciousness than superconsciousness. I believe that in highly gamma stimulated states our imagination becomes much stronger and more vivid, allowing our subconscious to serve up all manner of things that we then attach great importance to.
In alpha/theta the review of life's work can be conducted in an orderly fashion, until the pattern and purpose of the life becomes clear. At that stage the next step for you supposedly becomes obvious.
I have no idea what significance this may have, but I will mention that of the three schizophrenics I have personally known well, two attributed their initial episode to failed kundalini exercises.
Cheers,
Craig
>> can anybody suggest me a kundalini awakening session for proteus or if not then a binaural sound file? <<
The Kundalini state is not triggered by a singular effect or by a harmonic resonance frequency, or multiple frequencies for that matter. It is a dynamic state that requires a number of elements including physical, mental, and spiritual, that when aligned brings the individual into a higher energy-awareness state. There is no magic formula or recipe. With that in mind you also need understand that there are levels of "awakening" from a shallow awareness of the Kundalini state to the deepest and most violent form commonly referred to as Rebel Kundalini. It has been documented in a number of sources that improper or poorly developed minds attempting such a state have met with various levels of insanity. Books you may wish to read to prepare yourself include such authors as Osho. If awakening the Kudalini state were easy, anyone could do it. Such is not the case. Nor is it a magic bullet that will resolve all of your life's issues.
It took me 18 years of methodical meditation, study of the eastern bio-energy fields (Chakras and acupuncture meridians), and the event was accidental and intensely violent all the same. This is very much an opening into, instead of a pushing or pulling the awareness through, the boarder that defines non-Kundalini vs. Kundalini state of awareness. I did not use a sound system to accomplish this.
That said, we can proceed.
If you understand all that I have posted above, you need to align your energy as defined in eastern terms of Zen meditation. You need to raise the energy from first through seventh chakras. The sound system should entrain from alpha down into theta over a period of 10 minutes for this step. Visualization techniques favored are around color that ranges from the reds at the beginning into the deep violets by the end of that time frame. The next 30 minutes should be Theta patterns randomly interspersed with Alpha frequencies not longer then 1 second. This should expose you to the state long enough for you to understand the mechanics of how the state exists. There will be a shift in the color into a new spectrum. Those that have been through true Kundalini know what this spectrum is and how it manifests across the awareness. Guessing will not help you, it will only un-focus you. The return is 15 minutes raising the frequency back up through and past alpha until you are at a normal lucid state. You cannot get "locked" in the Kundalini state, that is a fallacy. Only truly skilled and deeply trained minds can maintain the state for any length of time.
Richard Smith
Okay first of all this 'lengthy' sacred process of kundalin is all bs. Awakenning your kundalini is as easy as walking to the park. You just have to use proper ancient egyptian meditations and chanting god names heavily. The ones I used came from www.joyofsatan.org and worked very well.
I awakenned my kundalini after 3 weeks of meditating.
However...
This was a very big mistake. Because I suffered a great deal with heat exhaustion, fevers, night sweats, physchitzofrania, paranoia, depression, fear paralysis, pain, you name it. So you must never awaken kundalini unless you are very prepared for it mentally and physically and have already done allot of healing.
At the moment I am using session 33, 38 and 48 to build up my pre-frontal lobes so I can deal with the higher energy uptake. The pain is associated with past life, genetic and childhood trauma that lies dormant. The procyon system, as it is directly tied to the eyes, helps one to see the truth and thus move on. Kundalini does not open you up to awareness. It forces all the bad shit painfully to the surface for you to deal with, takes your vibration up incredibly high and allows you to channel much more source energy to meet your needs, its also a pre-requisite for using the rest of our brains, harnessing 'super natural' powers and being able to completely open yourself up to the etheric realms.
Awareness is the most important thing in all of existence, and it comes from procyon, brain entrainment and doing work with your crown chakra. Awareness is the most important thing, because once you are aware of what is holding you back and what you are doing to make your life harder, you can now work to release it. Procyon, isochronic tones and binaural beats are some of the most powerful forms of awareness increasing tools, they are the greatest asset you can ever invest in. When you don't have awareness you repeat mistakes, hence human nature.
Hi Veeaye,
I think you could have phrased this more respectfully. It's okay to disagree with someone on this forum but you are not allowed to attack their beliefs. So play nice.:poke:
In all fairness whether one's kundalini is awakened or not is a personal judgment about a state of mind and whether this process is easy or lengthy and difficult depends upon the individual and their belief system.Quote:
Awakenning your kundalini is as easy as walking to the park. You just have to use proper ancient egyptian meditations and chanting god names heavily. The ones I used came from www.joyofsatan.org and worked very well.
Your way is neither right or wrong but the same applies to Richard. After all, there are many ways to accomplish a goal - which [IMO] actually isn't awakening kundalini - because awakening kundalini is a process not a goal. This process leads to an end result which is ... .
The same has been said about the practice of Magick which is why grade systems were set up. If you do the process properly, profound psychological changes occur but over a longer period of time, which gives you time to adjust. A lot of what happens in this time involves introspection of one's self, including beliefs and core issues such as identity, ego and so forth. When you start getting to core issues, your u/c will create all kinds of symptoms to get you to stop and back off. It's a protection mechanism of sorts. Keep in mind the u/c does not have the capability of reasoning like the conscious mind and so when working on one's self, it's common to spring some sticky traps. The key is to have some tools or someone of knowledge to help you through the messy stuff.Quote:
I awakenned my kundalini after 3 weeks of meditating.
However...
This was a very big mistake. Because I suffered a great deal with heat exhaustion, fevers, night sweats, physchitzofrania, paranoia, depression, fear paralysis, pain, you name it. So you must never awaken kundalini unless you are very prepared for it mentally and physically and have already done allot of healing.
Umm I'm not sure I agree with you on this. In particular, program 48 has no entrainment value - it's just pure entertainment. The other two programs ... well, I guess it depends on what you mean by "higher energy uptake."Quote:
At the moment I am using session 33, 38 and 48 to build up my pre-frontal lobes so I can deal with the higher energy uptake.
One of the things that can happen when one uses AVS theta programs is that repressed memories may come to surface - which would explain the unlocking of the door on childhood trauma. It doesn't always happen but it can.Quote:
The pain is associated with past life, genetic and childhood trauma that lies dormant. The procyon system, as it is directly tied to the eyes, helps one to see the truth and thus move on.
Hmmm not really sure what to say here. :eusa_think: Craig ...Quote:
Kundalini does not open you up to awareness. It forces all the bad shit painfully to the surface for you to deal with, takes your vibration up incredibly high and allows you to channel much more source energy to meet your needs, its also a pre-requisite for using the rest of our brains, harnessing 'super natural' powers and being able to completely open yourself up to the etheric realms.
Well, I agree with you here - awareness is important. :icon_wink: Thanks for posting your thoughts on the subject. It could be interesting to see where this goes.Quote:
Awareness is the most important thing in all of existence, and it comes from procyon, brain entrainment and doing work with your crown chakra. Awareness is the most important thing, because once you are aware of what is holding you back and what you are doing to make your life harder, you can now work to release it. Procyon, isochronic tones and binaural beats are some of the most powerful forms of awareness increasing tools, they are the greatest asset you can ever invest in. When you don't have awareness you repeat mistakes, hence human nature.
M.
Awww, Marisa, I thought you were handling it all just fine :)
First of all, I dearly wish Westerners would keep their snouts out of Eastern practices unless they are willing to integrate the culture of the native pactitioners.
The rising of the Kundalini Serpent is one expression of a process that most cultures have considered spiritually desirable. The most obvious Western equivalent is found in any system based on ascent of the Tree of Life (yup, complete with serpent!)
I have no idea what is in an Eastern practitioner's head when he thinks of Kundalini. I know that the Tree is symbolic, mapping (among other things) the refinement of the individual, culminating in the unity of understanding and wisdom.
A very strange thing happens when you commit a substantial chunk of your life to balancing understanding and wisdom. The Western Way is very good at understanding - we're good engineers. The Eastern Way is exceptional at wisdom.
Assuming the Abyss experience is comparable to the completion of the Kundalini, it will involve a lot of deep introspection. How can you claim to understand, if your own past is not resolved? How can you claim wisdom if you're acting without understanding? Formal systems provide an established path to follow.
There are no shortcuts. Kundalini won't happen out of context. Whatever it is that people make happen with almost no effort whatsoever is either fantasy, fiction or delusion. As I mentioned in an earlier post, of the three people I've known well who suffer schizophrenia, two attribute their initial episode to failed Kundalini exercises.
As this is an AVS site, I will mention that a very interesting range of quivers along the spine, and even out to the peripherals, can be induced with the right stimulus. I suspect this sensation could be confused with a very small snake ascending the spine, and while the sensation is far from unpleasant, it tends to happen in the low alpha and theta range, which is where I do my daily "balancing".
Cheers,
Craig
Ya but look what you contributed. See, I wouldn't have thought of this. :hello2:
because ... ? It's an interesting line of thought, please continue.Quote:
First of all, I dearly wish Westerners would keep their snouts out of Eastern practices unless they are willing to integrate the culture of the native practitioners.
I would like to add that the system of working with the Tree of Life and all associated symbolisms of "magick" can be used successfully by anyone wanting to gain some insight into their psyche and control over their own mind without them believing in a supreme being (god), religion or magic. Since the unconscious mind likes metaphor and symbolism working with a magickal system can be quite useful and insightful.Quote:
The rising of the Kundalini Serpent is one expression of a process that most cultures have considered spiritually desirable. The most obvious Western equivalent is found in any system based on ascent of the Tree of Life (yup, complete with serpent!)
Side bar: "Magick" means "An act of Will" ... which I can explain further if anyone is interested.
Well put. Good point also - we don't know what is in anyone's head when they think of many terms associated with spirituality and many other things.Quote:
I have no idea what is in an Eastern practitioner's head when he thinks of Kundalini. I know that the Tree is symbolic, mapping (among other things) the refinement of the individual, culminating in the unity of understanding and wisdom.
I AgreeQuote:
A very strange thing happens when you commit a substantial chunk of your life to balancing understanding and wisdom. The Western Way is very good at understanding - we're good engineers. The Eastern Way is exceptional at wisdom.
Ah the Abyss ... did a face plant there a few times. Not the most pleasant and comfortable of experiences. Don't forget that there are "ordeals" that tend to pop up on path work and those are like junior abyss experiences.Quote:
Assuming the Abyss experience is comparable to the completion of the Kundalini, it will involve a lot of deep introspection. How can you claim to understand, if your own past is not resolved? How can you claim wisdom if you're acting without understanding? Formal systems provide an established path to follow.
I think you bring up a very important point here - one that many do not give much thought to and that is the analysis of our beliefs around reality. The problem with magical thinking is that it does tend to lead one in an illusionary direction. Consider what an "etheric plane" may or may not be? Is it a physical place or is it a "mind place" [no pun intended]. Is the astral an outer or inner experience?Quote:
There are no shortcuts. Kundalini won't happen out of context. Whatever it is that people make happen with almost no effort whatsoever is either fantasy, fiction or delusion. As I mentioned in an earlier post, of the three people I've known well who suffer schizophrenia, two attribute their initial episode to failed Kundalini exercises.
Most of magick is an inner experience but don't discount it as unimportant because of that. The "inner planes" are rich with insight and opportunity for growth. It is the training ground for mental strength and personal power both which are useful in our lives on the physical (material) plane.
It is an AVS site but in this section "The Mind Place" - these conversations are most welcome and I encourage others to join in. As I've mentioned before - all view points are welcome just remember to be respectful in your posts because I want to keep this environment as one where these things can safely be discussed without anyone fearing attack or ridicule.Quote:
As this is an AVS site, I will mention that a very interesting range of quivers along the spine, and even out to the peripherals, can be induced with the right stimulus. I suspect this sensation could be confused with a very small snake ascending the spine, and while the sensation is far from unpleasant, it tends to happen in the low alpha and theta range, which is where I do my daily "balancing".
M.
hmmm... :eusa_think:
Marisa. I had awakenned my kundalini, after three weeks of meditation. Have you? I speak through experience.
Craig. You are right. I had no idea what I was doing when I did the energy and kundalini meditations. One should begin 15 minutes or so and slowly build up to an hour or two. I was doing them all day.
The pain is completely to do with the ego inflating. The ego feeds on the energy. When you open your chakras and awaken your kundalini, your soul takes in much energy from the sun and its surroundings. If you haven't figured out the blockages, its like feeding the shadow within until it tears you apart. And the shadow attracts and feeds on more negative energy so you attract more of those experiences.
The pre-warning on the jos didn't seem to outline the true severity of it. If I haven't been seeing a kinesiologist twice a week for two years, as well as doing EFT, mandalas, affirmations, entrainment, paraliminals, guided meditations, crystal therapy and bach flower essences. Im sure I wouldn't have lasted long.
I want to further build on that by letting you all know that we exchange energy within our environment on a regular basis. That is why I recommended chakra/soul cleansing daily and if you use crystals to clean them almost every day. Thought's are living electrical impulses and they can go from one form to another. Hence magick.
There's a difference between awakenning and rising your kundalini. if you prematurely awaken your kundalini it can be extremely difficult. It seems those people who claimed they have gotten schtizofrania from attempting kundalini, most likely awoken it, as it can be difficult to tell.
You have to awaken your kundalini, then when you are ready, to rise it. When you rise it, that is the wonderful feeling people talk of. I haven't risen mine. If you rise your kundalini prematurely like Gopi Krishna did, it is the most wonderful experience yet more painful than anything. If you are ready for it, it is blissful. The kundalini purifies the chakras, once they are purified and open enough, they can handle the kundalini, this whole process takes your vibration beyond 1,000 Omni Hertz. Most people reside in 900Hz and under. That is why people who have risen their kundalini and did the final touches of their cleansing and healing, live in bliss. And people like buddha appeared to have a 'golden' aura and were so wonderful to be around.
I feel this is important because everything is vibration and unless you are ready to accept subliminal/unconcsious/hyponotic suggestion vibrationally, your mind-body will reject everything you tell it. So it pays to clear blockages before you attempt to re-pattern the brain. That's just my opinion, but it works, because I had been doing affirmations a long time ago to no avail.
I no longer follow that belief system so my answer to your question would be irrelevant.
What appears to me to be more relevant is that you did something to yourself that unleashed a whole lot of anguish.
I'm not convinced that you would have avoided this outcome had you done things differently. I think it would have surfaced one way or another.Quote:
Craig. You are right. I had no idea what I was doing when I did the energy and kundalini meditations. One should begin 15 minutes or so and slowly build up to an hour or two. I was doing them all day.
Just out of curiosity - where are you getting your information? You mention Egyptian gods but it doesn't sound like anything from any of the systems of study I've come across (Hermetic, GD, TGD) but it does seem to contain bits and pieces from these schools. :eusa_think:Quote:
The pain is completely to do with the ego inflating. The ego feeds on the energy. When you open your chakras and awaken your kundalini, your soul takes in much energy from the sun and its surroundings. If you haven't figured out the blockages, its like feeding the shadow within until it tears you apart. And the shadow attracts and feeds on more negative energy so you attract more of those experiences.
So where are you at now? Looking back on your experience, you have stated that you would have done things differently?Quote:
The pre-warning on the jos didn't seem to outline the true severity of it. If I haven't been seeing a kinesiologist twice a week for two years, as well as doing EFT, mandalas, affirmations, entrainment, paraliminals, guided meditations, crystal therapy and bach flower essences. Im sure I wouldn't have lasted long.
The million dollar question is: Once you raise your energy, awaken your kundalini and all that -- what exactly does that get you? Does it get you the illusion of power because you think you can do all these things or does it get you to a place of emotional strength and mental clarity? Does it allow you to achieve happiness and peace (long term or for a little while). Does it provide you with useful skills and knowledge that allow you to function successfully in the physical world? Does it open you to consider other explanations to phenomina?
If so, then please explain how your studies have helped you achieve this. I'm not asking to challenge you or your belief system. I am asking because if you are studying something that is that successful, then others would benefit from this learning.
Perhaps you could make the explanation less esoteric - maybe translate it into terms that the lay person could understand. For example, it isn't enough to say that "ego feeds on energy" because while this statement makes sense to you this statement does not make sense to the lay person (or anyone who isn't involved in the same line of study as you).
M.
Hi Marisa,
You obviously missed the link to the source a few posts back.
'Nuf said.
Cheers,
Craig
Just went there and had a look around. Okay, that's a new take on stuff I've seen before. The author of the site seems quite angry and seems to have a bit of a chip on his shoulder about our Jewish friends. It's too bad, I think the "angry" writing detracts from some otherwise valid points.
In the end, it appears to be another take on a familiar theme - my god is more worthy than your god. My religion is the only true religion ...my way is the only right way ... sigh ... .
Hey, I believe the Randi Foundation still has it's million dollar payout to anyone who can prove they have psychic powers ... just sayin'
M. :cool:
I am basically talking about what I have felt and experienced. Many people including me, can physically feel energy and feel their chakras pumping energy through their astral body. So what I said about energy is literely true. Through meditation you unlock the parts of the mind which give you access to it. You can also unlock astral smell, sight and sound. The difference is, that your moving your registry up, the human ear for example can hear up to 20,000hz but when you unlock your astral hearing it goes much higher, same with other senses.
How does this benefit you? I'm not really sure. I assume that it enables you to be a director of your fate and gives you access to profound intuition and 'knowing' so you can make better choices. I've learned that about 99% of what we experience including what we were born into, has to do with our choices and our thinking. if you purify your system through kundalini, you make better choices. As well as burning the soul up higher, it also has an effect on the brain.
By the end of it you have a background feeling of blissful knowing. You know how you can be happy whilst having a background feeling of sad or depression? Well kundalini is what helps us become true players. true players in the sense that we have a deep grounding of the illusion of life, and whilst taking part in our part, we don't get overly attached to any outcome and remain in a permanent peaceful and happy state. That is in the later transformational stages of the process.
If you take out as much as the ego first then awaken your kundalini it can be more of a pleasant experience, but for everybody, rising the kundalini is a bit painful, it's like a re-birth. Take my kinesiologist for example, because she channelled my energy through her, she got a kundalini awakenning and within two years she had completely risen hers. She went through the heat exhaustion phases, but didn't suffer like I did because she dealt with most of her ego before she did it. But when she rose it, she had to take a few day's off. If you want to understand the biology of kundalini. www.biologyofkundalini.com Gopi Krishna also writes extensively about his kundalini experience if you want to google him.
How does this benefit people? Tremendiously. Your energy acts on your environment, self and others, so in terms of manifestational and emotional, kundalini can make you a very wise, powerful and understanding person. By powerful I mean someone who can manifest what he wants quicker and has much more bio-electricity.
Now Im not saying im some powerful and wise master as yet, but I am saying that it forced me to change and look at myself, it eradicates emotional problems and the painbody by pushing them up to the surface to be dealt with - things I never even knew I had, became revealed to me so I could deal with them.
As far as childhood memories are concerned, most of them have already come up - things that I never even knew bothered me. AVS and other forms of brain entrainment dont do allot in terms of pushing stuff up compared to kundalini, that's what I mean about the suffering. Memories and beleifs have just as much as an effect as blockages and also are felt and pushed up to be dealt with. The difference is that blockages are more intense negative experiences which get locked up in the body, mental stuff are negative beleifs formed from past experiences which lie in the mind.
How one deals with the blockages is entirely up to them. But I find im guided allot by intuition. People also experience strange thing's on kundalini. I've had memories of past and future lives, although the future lives memories are fading and I can't seem to be able to see what lies ahead of me anymore. I've also communicated with my son from my last lifetime and held hands with my husband whilst having a semi out of body experience (being in the astral while in the body - ive had many OBE as well). I was shocked when I first got memories of my last life as a woman named Edna Rymes. That is why I talk allot about past lives because my last life I remember it like it were my childhood and many of my hangups seemed to have originated from there.
The energy stuff is real but not easily recognised because it doesn't fit into the standard of what people expect to hear or can easily recognise, but it is as real as flesh and bone, even physics is beginning to prove that. It's delightful to talk to you Marissa even you seemed to be a little hard on me on this subject to begin with.
I thought the same thing as well when I went there. But then I asked myself... is my life working for me? So I decided to give it a go. A pretty big thing to try I know, but I was desperate and if what she said was true then I could be in for a very good life. But I was very afraid to begin with. And at the start, I was very angry too!
Well turned out much of what she said is true - and ive had some pretty phenominal experiences to back that up. But she isn't 100% right on everything. Nobody is 100% right and nobody knows it all, but you can take from something what you want. I personally feel religions were just created by very aware people who thought that their same set of beleifs could be shared and benefit the world - most likely under a false pretense and lack of trusting in the natural process of evolution. I sense that all religions will eventually be wiped out and replaced by shared insight. I could have done those meditations without dedicating, but I decided to do it because of the extra love and protection I get. I won't let one persons opinions dictate how I perceive being's who are far wiser and more benelovent than I can even imagine. No singular person can be a true representative of the unseeable. But she did a damn good job of getting the point out there, and even if you don't dedicate, you will benefit immensively by reading her site.
I don't think that you have to have that beleif system to do those meditations, they seem to stem from ancient egypt with some modern twists - they are very effective however and nothing like the common meditations you hear about in this day and age. But if you want to dedicate it can be most beneficial, the dieties are extremely loving, wise, helpful and evolved beings. Some of those beings, have been channeled by everyday people under the guise of egyptian gods. - they want to help regardless what you beleive in. For example there is a lady who channels Isis, she created the Isis Mystery School some time in 2001-2002. 2000 is when dieties like Astaroth who is said to be Isis, have been freed. It's beyond co-incidents that suddenly these meditations have appeared and people are channeling them and making big money - shortly after the goetic demons have been freed. You can look into that if your curious, this is just something to consider.
Veeaye,
As the unit "Omni Hertz appears to exist only in your post, could you please provide a definition, particulary its relationship to the common "Hertz.
Thanks.
Craig
I would have to say that it's more of a perceived truth than a literal one. A literal truth would have to be backed with some evidence and testimony is not evidence.
The problem here is that the human mind is notorious for its ability to see, hear and experience things of its own creation. So things like god, ghosts, demons, crystal energy, past lives and so forth fall under the category of "belief" and belief is not synonymous with truth.
This doesn't take away from your experiences. I think they are useful.
While I believe that various methods can be very useful in unlocking parts of the mind and I'll give you that we are able to hone our senses somewhat ... but "astral hearing" ... how would that be useful?Quote:
Through meditation you unlock the parts of the mind which give you access to it. You can also unlock astral smell, sight and sound. The difference is, that your moving your registry up, the human ear for example can hear up to 20,000hz but when you unlock your astral hearing it goes much higher, same with other senses.
Critical thinking skills are much more useful than intuition. At least with critical thinking skills one has mind enough to question the questionable. When one relies on intuition one is prone to making mistakes because we can easily form the wrong conclusion about a feeling. Intuition can alert you that something is amiss but many make mistakes when determining what that "something" is. Critical thinking skills, on the other hand, allow you to analyze and make sense of what is going on.Quote:
How does this benefit you? I'm not really sure. I assume that it enables you to be a director of your fate and gives you access to profound intuition and 'knowing' so you can make better choices.
I agree with the first part. The second part, I would have to say that your system of kundalini raising is one of many methods to achieve the same goal. Lots of ordinary things affect the brain.Quote:
I've learned that about 99% of what we experience including what we were born into, has to do with our choices and our thinking. if you purify your system through kundalini, you make better choices. As well as burning the soul up higher, it also has an effect on the brain.
OkayQuote:
By the end of it you have a background feeling of blissful knowing. You know how you can be happy whilst having a background feeling of sad or depression? Well kundalini is what helps us become true players. true players in the sense that we have a deep grounding of the illusion of life, and whilst taking part in our part, we don't get overly attached to any outcome and remain in a permanent peaceful and happy state. That is in the later transformational stages of the process.
With all due respect for your journey, the study of kundalini is not in my realm of interest. For myself, I've found much better results through studying the mind (NLP, Hypnosis, behavior). Some people do prefer ritual - I'm not one of those people.Quote:
If you take out as much as the ego first then awaken your kundalini it can be more of a pleasant experience, but for everybody, rising the kundalini is a bit painful, it's like a re-birth. Take my kinesiologist for example, because she channelled my energy through her, she got a kundalini awakenning and within two years she had completely risen hers. She went through the heat exhaustion phases, but didn't suffer like I did because she dealt with most of her ego before she did it. But when she rose it, she had to take a few day's off. If you want to understand the biology of kundalini. www.biologyofkundalini.com Gopi Krishna also writes extensively about his kundalini experience if you want to google him.
Hmmm I think the proper use of knowledge and understanding are what makes one wise. I suppose though if the process you speak of has led you to a place that causes this to happen ... it just seems like the scenic route.Quote:
How does this benefit people? Tremendously. Your energy acts on your environment, self and others, so in terms of manifestational and emotional, kundalini can make you a very wise, powerful and understanding person. By powerful I mean someone who can manifest what he wants quicker and has much more bio-electricity.
That is a positive outcome.Quote:
Now Im not saying im some powerful and wise master as yet, but I am saying that it forced me to change and look at myself, it eradicates emotional problems and the painbody by pushing them up to the surface to be dealt with - things I never even knew I had, became revealed to me so I could deal with them.
So you have found peace with your past?Quote:
As far as childhood memories are concerned, most of them have already come up - things that I never even knew bothered me. AVS and other forms of brain entrainment dont do allot in terms of pushing stuff up compared to kundalini, that's what I mean about the suffering. Memories and beleifs have just as much as an effect as blockages and also are felt and pushed up to be dealt with. The difference is that blockages are more intense negative experiences which get locked up in the body, mental stuff are negative beleifs formed from past experiences which lie in the mind.
To accept that the future is predetermined would be to also accept that you do not have free will. I think that the beauty of life is the chances we take and the choices we make in life. What is the point of actually living a life though if it is already determined how it will play out. I do not like the idea that something else has power over me and that I am not the one in full control of my destiny.Quote:
I've had memories of past and future lives, although the future lives memories are fading and I can't seem to be able to see what lies ahead of me anymore.
As for past lives ... if they do exist, I do not think they are relevant to this life because they are past ... over. What is important is this life - the here and now - not the future, not the past ... now.
Not sure what to say here. I want to be respectful of your experiences but I do not agree upon their origin or cause.Quote:
I've also communicated with my son from my last lifetime and held hands with my husband whilst having a semi out of body experience (being in the astral while in the body - ive had many OBE as well). I was shocked when I first got memories of my last life as a woman named Edna Rymes. That is why I talk allot about past lives because my last life I remember it like it were my childhood and many of my hangups seemed to have originated from there.
Oh you start talking "the secret" on me and I'll send you lightening bolts to the head ... hmmm which would definitely raise your energy level ... don't you think? :icon_wink:Quote:
The energy stuff is real but not easily recognised because it doesn't fit into the standard of what people expect to hear or can easily recognise, but it is as real as flesh and bone, even physics is beginning to prove that.
The reason it is not recognized by science is because they (scientists) can not find any supporting proof of the existence of these things and they have looked and continue to look ... nada.
It's real on the inner plane (in the mind). It is not real on the out plane (here) as cool as it would be if it was.
Hard on you? Maybe a bit ... but it does make for interesting debates/discussions. :eusa_dance: :icon_twisted:Quote:
It's delightful to talk to you Marissa even you seemed to be a little hard on me on this subject to begin with.
M.
Let me back up. This thread is so old I had to reread what was posted to see where all of this came from. To clarify: You can enter into Kundalini using any number of religious disciplines but there is a risk to doing that without proper training. I was simply warning you about potential side effects.
As I said in my original post:
>>It has been documented in a number of sources that improper or poorly developed minds attempting such a state have met with various levels of insanity. << Ref: Kundalini, Evolution and Enlightenment Edited by John White ISBN: 0-385-14095-9
You have clearly validated the above by what you posted. Because of your poor preparation you have reaped the results through all the negative effects that you state below. There are far easier transitions with proper structures applied, in effect, you triggered the event and are now forced to deal with the many side effects you have listed. Thanks for the verification of your rash action.
So the question is why did you bring all of this on yourself? I don't see this as anything someone randomly looking through this forum would want to bring on themselves, if anything they would rather want to avoid based on what you posted. You don't need to experience Awareness through Kundalini. From my experience you have badly garbled a variety of elements for the purpose of using meditation to create the truely negative result that you posted. At best you show the forum that you had better understand all the elements of what Kundalini will expose before you attempt it or they have the potential of experiencing the same results.
As I said in my original post, do your research or the results will not be what you want, or maybe the results were what you wanted.
Richard Smith
{ Does it get you the illusion of power because you think you can do all these things or does it get you to a place of emotional strength and mental clarity? Does it allow you to achieve happiness and peace (long term or for a little while). Does it provide you with useful skills and knowledge that allow you to function successfully in the physical world? Does it open you to consider other explanations to phenomina? }
all of the above. Actually when you align your energy, you become aware of situations where you could have gotten thing's which seemed impossible to get. You become aware that literely everything you want is around the corner you just couldn't see it before because the literal appearance of what lies in front of you coats that perception.
{So the question is why did you bring all of this on yourself? I don't see this as anything someone randomly looking through this forum would want to bring on themselves, if anything they would rather want to avoid based on what you posted. You don't need to experience Awareness through Kundalini. From my experience you have badly garbled a variety of elements for the purpose of using meditation to create the truely negative result that you posted. At best you show the forum that you had better understand all the elements of what Kundalini will expose before you attempt it or they have the potential of experiencing the same results. }
Agreed, there is no such thing as one way or the highway. Look I want you to understand something. It really is not important how far a person has gone or how intelligent they are. What is REALLY important is that you get into alignment with what life has caused you to become. The spirit within you, isn't beckonning you to reach a state of internal perfection. It wants you to get to a level where you can progressively attain your goals and dreams. For some people this is kundalini, for some people it is not. Since time is not a constant it literely has no relevance how fast you evolve (I realise this now). So if you feel comfortable not doing kundalini and it is working for you, there is a reason for that. My kundalini experience was forced action done out of desperation and delusion, I in no way benefitted from this experience for the first two years, but I have managed to reset my body-mind to a level where I can cope. I will benefit from this in the long term, but I am aware that since time is not a constant, all we have is the moment, and if we are doing something which is causing suffering for ourselves in this moment, we are defeating the very purpose of existence. However with something like kundalini you can't go back - same goes for all forms of increasing consciousness, kundalini is just one way to go about it - a very extreme, yet effective way.
Omni hertz is something a few professionals have agreed on. It is not widely spread or accepted. It's a new term. Vibration goes like this.. Hertz, Kilohertz, megahertz, gigahertz, terahertz, omnihertz... as far as im aware. But vibration can just as easily go beyond omni but theres no term to describe it. I assume it would be something like 2hz, 2khz, 2mhz, and so on... that's just an opinion though. Vibration can also go below 0 Hz.
I understand what you are saying. I've had paranoic and delusive thought's to begin with. That phase has passed. I can easily spot the difference.
There are vibratory sounds about, which are most pleasant, and also spirits can talk using their throat chakra.
Your right about critical thinking skills. The biggest mistake I made in my life was using fear as a guide. Critical thinking skills work really well. But I don't think critical thinking can guide you as well as intuition, as I am beginng to awaken my intuition and just 'know' what I need to eat and do to increase my growth. Sometimes thing's make sense or are logical, yet they reap terrible results - in my experience anyway.
You are right about what you said about proper use of knowledge and udnerstanding. It's more important to know how to use the energy. Than having lot's of it. In future I will place more emphasis on mental growth than energy meditation. I feel as though mental growth also increases the energy flow within the body. But energy is everything. I talk energy because our brains send energy signals to our muscles to make them move and energy signals to our organs to make them function in harmony. All of our thoughts are energy. We are energy. We can exist just as energy but cannot exist just as a body.
I have made peace with most of my past - amazingly. I have for the first time in my life experienced unconditional love for myself and others and hope that this feeling can increase, because with it, comes a sense of freedom and vitality. But I still have allot of work to do.
No the future is not pre-determined. I promise you that with every cell in my body. Because the day I declared that I will put myself first no matter what and that I denounded my former identity and the relationships I made therein in search of accepting my new identity. That is when everything changed for me and my future became unclear. Our future is changeing every second of the day. Choices? yeah choices play a part, but all choices stem from our way of thinking, and all thinkign stem from our beleifs, and we are guided into beleiving something based on how we feel about the subject.
Screw science. Science has been around for what... less than 2,000 years? So your assuming that what humanity knows who are scientifcally babies compared to the age of this planet, is the ultimate truth?
Yes I appreciate your debate, in fact this thread seems to catch your interest allot. I'm challenging your beleifs and you have accepted many of the thing's I said, and because your curious and your a learner your going to discover some new things and then say to yourself.. "gees that crazy fool in my forum, actually really did know what he was saying even though he wrote it in a messy way. Though I don't agree with everything he says. Im glad he said a few things because the interest has caused me to discover this and this and now I am learnin this and having this new experience which is making my life different and more interesting and fundamentally openning myself up to some new things."
I also do a profound amount of NLP. Especially Special Linguistics. I don't do hyponisis but paraliminals have a similar effect.
After you do NLP on yourself, lie down in bed and dont move a muscle. Do this for anything from 15 minutes to 3 hours *however long your patience calls for). State in your mind or out loud "I am willing to receive love and the energy needed to obtain this quality throughout my entire body". Lie on your back, dont move a muscle unless you are getting too uncomfortable. This might sound crazy. But do it! This enables profound change on a deeper level. Even with Procyon, state this always. If your not open to change on a cellular level, it can be slow and futile.
I can relate to what you are saying. I belonged to a "occult" organization for many years and have had similar experiences. While I had a solid foundation, things were not always easy. I can fully understand how someone who is not prepared or who does not have the tools can go crazy. My NLP, Hypnosis and knowledge of psychology helped me a lot. This particular process I underwent involved the Qabalistic Tree and it took me two years to complete. I'd have to say, even now, that it was a valuable experience and when I finished I was a very different person than when I started. There is no way I could have predicted the outcome and you are correct, there is no way back.
One of the biggest changes was in my belief system. When I began the process, I believed in past lives, psychic powers, astral, demons, spirits and all that goes with it. When I completed the process I was essentially an atheist - and that - took a few more years to adjust to and become comfortable with. Knowing what I know now about the brain, behavior and the basis of these beliefs ... there's no way back. When I say I do not believe in these things, that does not mean that I am closed to the ideas ... it means that my experiences have led me to believe that these things do not exist outside of our minds. Of course if a big fat demon, angel or ... lands on my head and it passed my "reality" check - I'd think it was pretty cool. I would like there to be psychic powers and spirits .. it would make things interesting ... but if such things do exist, they have left no evidence in physical reality and I no longer think that belief qualifies as evidence.
P.S. That's cool that you got something beneficial out of your experience.
M.
wow very interesting indeed.
Hello I am new to this sight and very interested in the devices that are offered and even more interested in expanding the mind. I came to this thread because of its name, "Kundalini Awakening" and I seemed to have stumbled across some disagreements almost along the line of an argument. I don't personally believe that is conducive to learning or expanding the mind. I could be wrong and just misinterpreting your intentions within Said discussion. Witch is likely sense I am far from a perfect being. I am after all, only human.
With that said I would like to entrain you with a little knowledge I have received during my time as a student of the arcane, professional healer and energy worker.
I have noticed throughout history that one amazing similarity in witch ALL human life on this planet has been striving for is, Enlightenment. It does not matter where you come from, what color skin you have, or what language you speak in we all are trying to get to the same place. I believe most of you would agree.
1. Energy is real and all around us no matter what name you give it Chi, Ki, prana, mana, spirit, ether, gas, liquid, solid, plasma ECT.
2. Everyone has there very own, very personal way of experiencing said energy. And it seems that a greater percentage of the population is limited to the spectrum contained within our five 3 dimensional senses.
3. The map is not the territory. When you try to use words or pictures to describe your experiences it fails in comparison to the actual experience. Try to describe the color blue to a blind man.
4. There is only one mountain and at the last count there is 6.8 billion paths to the top. And that is not to count animals (non human), plants, minerals or possible sentient self determined life forms that reside outside of our solar system or dimension. I think to invoke the word infinite would not be to far fetched.
5. You are on you own personal path. Some paths ARE harder than others. So be kind when walking past someone who seems to be falling behind they may have chose a harder path or your GREAT challenges are yet to come.
6. tread lightly. For every pebble that falls has the potential to cause a land slide.
7. Remember that we are but a tiny part of an ever present infinite whole. so be kind to you fellow travelers. And don't be afraid to lend a loving and compassionate to those in need.
8. Everything happens for a reason. schizophrenia is the diagnosable term for someone who cant proses Divine awareness.
9. A fact is an opinion agreed upon by the majority.
I may have fell a little of track here I do apologize if I have. i get a little passionate some times and forget my point. after all I am only human.
Namaste
thewolfrey
Hi Wolfrey,
Welcome to the forum
I think disagreements are wonderful tools for mind expansion as long as the tone is kept respectful. An argument or disagreement is an expression of a different perspective. How dull the world would be if we all pointed in the same direction and agreed with each other. There would be little to learn because a good argument can inspire someone to examine their reasoning.
When I say "argument" I don't mean a name-calling, shouting match - that is a fight. An argument is a controversy - a different perspective and an effort to convince the other party that their perspective holds the most merit (that's the fun part of an argument). :icon_wink:
And so with all due respect to your thoughts on the subject ... I do feel it necessary to provide an alternative perspective.
I say we all strive for happiness and happiness means different things to different people.Quote:
I have noticed throughout history that one amazing similarity in witch ALL human life on this planet has been striving for is, Enlightenment. It does not matter where you come from, what color skin you have, or what language you speak in we all are trying to get to the same place. I believe most of you would agree.
In what way would you say that enlightenment is similar or different than wisdom?
Gas, liquid, plasma are all things that can be measured and worked with scientifically while prana, spirit, ether and Chi have yet to achieve this standing.Quote:
1. Energy is real and all around us no matter what name you give it Chi, Ki, prana, mana, spirit, ether, gas, liquid, solid, plasma ECT.
Energy as chi, spirit or ether is actually a belief not a science. One can work with these concepts metaphorically and achieve goals but they are ideas not things.
... and this is a problem because?Quote:
2. Everyone has there very own, very personal way of experiencing said energy. And it seems that a greater percentage of the population is limited to the spectrum contained within our five 3 dimensional senses.
I agree with this one. :eusa_dance:Quote:
3. The map is not the territory. When you try to use words or pictures to describe your experiences it fails in comparison to the actual experience. Try to describe the color blue to a blind man.
I agree here also. There are many ways to fry a fish ... though are all ways equal?Quote:
4. There is only one mountain and at the last count there is 6.8 billion paths to the top. And that is not to count animals (non human), plants, minerals or possible sentient self determined life forms that reside outside of our solar system or dimension. I think to invoke the word infinite would not be to far fetched.
I like this.Quote:
5. You are on you own personal path. Some paths ARE harder than others. So be kind when walking past someone who seems to be falling behind they may have chose a harder path or your GREAT challenges are yet to come.
I think kindness is understated and we certainly could use more of it in the world.
Hmmmmm:eusa_think:Quote:
6. tread lightly. For every pebble that falls has the potential to cause a land slide.
I agree.Quote:
7. Remember that we are but a tiny part of an ever present infinite whole. so be kind to you fellow travelers. And don't be afraid to lend a loving and compassionate to those in need.
Well, everything happens for a reason only if you put reason to everything that happens.Quote:
8. Everything happens for a reason. schizophrenia is the diagnosable term for someone who cant proses Divine awareness.
Okay on the schizophrenia diagnosis --- I find this wrong on so many levels and almost offensive. Ironically though, one of the symptoms of schizophrenia is magical thinking ...
Uh no ... it really isn't. A fact is something that has evidence to back its truthfulness. An opinion can be a fact but it can also be a belief (which is not synonymous with truth).Quote:
9. A fact is an opinion agreed upon by the majority.
An opinion only holds merit in the eyes of the beholder. A fact will always be provable and therefore true. Fact = truth.
LOLQuote:
I may have fell a little of track here I do apologize if I have. i get a little passionate some times and forget my point. after all I am only human.
On that note: My opinion is that Critical thinking is the key to enlightenment.
"Question everything" (A.Crowley)
M.
thank you so much for your reply I appreciate your level of understanding. (I am not sure how to do the quote box so forgive me) I would like to add to some of the things I said and answer some of your questions.
"In what way would you say that enlightenment is similar or different than wisdom?
I think that they are more synonymous within each other. As we go through life experiencing our every day events we hopefully learn from them and become wise or enlightened in some way. I also agree with the comment on happiness as well. That may be more true in our similarities.
"Energy as chi, spirit or ether is actually a belief not a science. One can work with these concepts metaphorically and achieve goals but they are ideas not things."
The fun part I have with the research that I do is connecting the dots and finding where things fit in the bigger picture. Lets start with Chi. Our ancient eastern brothers and sisters through the art of touch noticed a flow of energy that moves through our bodies in a very distinct pattern. through multiple observations they located what we now know as meridian lines. these lines follow a very repeatable and accurate location throughout the whole body. You more then likely know what I am talking about. they are so sure that they exist that to practice any form of bodywork you are required to go to medical school even to practice the most basic form of shiatsu or reflexology not to mention acupuncture. Thanks to modern science and the ability to dissect the human body our scientist and doctors have found the anatomical equivalent of these lines.
There is a single all encompassing structure that wraps it self around every cell, every bone and muscle, and every organ in one continues loop it is called fascia. Without it the human body would be a kind of glob of soft tissue and calcium deposits with no shape or structure. If you where to take everything out of the body that wasn't fascia we could not only recognize you as a person. Also as who you are you friends and loved ones would still know who you are. Some of this fascia creates dense lines throughout the body these lines follow the same pattern as the meridian lines of old. Interestingly enough our nerves system blends into this fascial system so it can have access to our entire body. to keep everything alive and functioning.
Concerning Chi. the denser portions of fascia have less electrical resistance so the nerve impulse can reach its desired location more efficiently. Our eastern brother simply gave the name "Chi" to the electrical flow throughout our body. A real and scientificly mensurable energy source. all living things have this energy running through them without it there would be no life.
The art of Tai Chi teaches you how to move that energy throughout the body at will (if you find the right teacher).
Now on spirit. first we need to know what spirit is to understand its scientific validatidy . I like to put spirit and ether on the same pedestal it makes it easier to find and understand its substance.
Our wonderful people in the scientific comunity have painstakingly chopped matter down to its tiniest parts to try and find the how and why to existence and reality. In this search we have came across and interesting phonominon. Deep within matter it self there is an ever present (for lack of a better word) hum that resonates throughout all relms of reality. it is one frequency that connects every thing to every thing. The Tibetan name for it is Ohm. I know you have herd of it. you remember my statment. "Remember that we are but a tiny part of an ever present infinite whole." that infinite whole is the hum I speak of. that hum is the spirit and the ether all in one. without them there would be nothing. that hum is a lot like the fascia that runs throughout our bodies. it is the connective tissue that holds reality together.
On the topic of schizophrenia. I do apologize for the insult. Let me try to explain why I feel that way.
The common symptoms are why I feel that it is an inability to prosses divine awareness.
But first lets have a look at the science that studies the mind and consciousness, psychology. To begin with consciousness is an intangible substance that cannot be measured by any known means as of yet. As per you statement on energy and belief that would put this respectable science deep in the belief a opinion category. Yet unlike alchemy and magick (just to name a few) it has reached the same place that chemistry and physics has in most scientific circles. How? I don't have the slightest idea. but it has none-the-less.
anyways schizophrenia.
some of the symptoms are seeing, hearing, smelling, ECT. things that no one else can. as well as magickal thinking as you said before. I have studied mysticism for over half my life. I see, hear, feel, smell things that no one else can and any one who studies the Arcane Arts can a-test to the same symptoms.
Schizophrenia is the diagnosis when these so called hallucination and delusions interfere with your ability to function in "normal" reality(AKA inability to prosses divine awareness). In our ancient past these people where held in the highest regard as psychics, sages, medicine men and so on. Great kings and the like would not move forward with any plan before consulting these schizophrenics a they are called today.
I still hold these special few in the highest regard. I am also appalled by the fact that society medicates and institutionalizes these people instead of embracing there gifts and teaching them how to use them.
By the way one of my uncles is a diagnosed schizophrenic and heavily medicated. There are Many mental disorders that i think are gifts that we as a people are loosing because of the so called need to medicate and turn them "normal"
on fact and opinion. I would like you to convince a devout religious person that there "belief" is not a fact. no amount of evidence you have to prove or disprove anything will change what someone believes is true if they aren't willing to change there perspective. that doesn't mean that my statement is any less true or false. I just hope you better understand why i think in that way.
If it wasn't for critical thinking and questioning everything I would have never come to the conclusions I have reached.
the fun part I think with all this info is that my knowledge is all ways changing and growing I add and subtract to my data base every day. there have been a many of time I contradicted my self and not bean able to express why. I'd like to think that I am all ways changing like the sands of a beach.
When we stop learning we stop living.
With peace and love
thewolfrey
Wow! I couldn't even bring myself to get to the end of most of those sentences, but I got the overall sense of a challenge as to who has the greater authority to an opinion.
Subject to the explicit consent of the management of this site, the well respected MindPlace corporation, responsible for the insights behind products that have been a genuine response to requests from those seeking enhanced means of deducing truth from the myriad of fragments made available to any one of us, I would be delighted to play, and I can think of a dozen other contributors to these forums who could run circles around you in arguments about higher truths, and what's more, none of us actually agree on most things.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. They are not entitled to the unrefuted opportunity to announce themselves as the arbiter of truth and light.
A weak defense of the moral high ground is something especially repugnant to me.
Cheers,
Craig
Cheers,
Craig
I agree with everything you say here.
Marissa you do come on a bit strong and a little offensive, it makes my discussion with you not as enjoyable but then I understand you are doing what feels right to you and what makes you happy so that's okay. Plus you do have sound knowledge on procyon and the mind so i can't argue with that. But Im more into the energetic thing, that seems to be working for me more, though I like to combine the whole enchalada.
I heard about blockages, but when I oppenned myself up to be able to physically feel energy. I physically felt the blockages. When my healer would hold certain points, I would feel some of those begin to go and I would physically feel the energy flow and tightness be released. I can feel the changes physically as she tunes my chakras, etc. This stuff is real. But people do not accept it because their limited senses can't aknoledge it. Use more % of your brain, then re-avaluate your assumption, I say. What the hell do you think its all there for? We can do so much more than u think.
Let's back up for a minute. Where the others have defined their background clearly I have not and that may lend a greater light on the subject. I started meditation and martial arts in 1968. I’ve examined all forms of meditation from Hindu through Zen. I am versed in Wicca and shamanism and have worked with elders in all the above structures. I have also gone through not less then 20 books on the following religions: Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Druid, Wiccan, and shamanic and a few more remote religions such as Ogham. My profession for 25 years was as a Consulting Technical Computer specialist (I analyze things for underlying structures at, according to a college I attended, the doctoral level of complexity. The degree was outside of my financial reach.). I have posted credentials as a certified hypnotist and Reiki Master Trainer but I have also developed a healing methodology that is not symbolic like Reiki that provides a structure that can easily be replicated. My experience with Kundalini is first hand and I have helped a number of people through the event that have shown marked side effects before being opened to it. I simply eased the transition.
I am not fighting with anyone, I am simply stating my experience and how it applies.
>>3. The map is not the territory. <<
thewolfrey is right in a true NLP sense. Marissa simply seems focused on her map and territory.
>>I understand what you are saying. I've had paranoiac and delusive thought's to begin with. <<
veeaye has the right to fling himself into Kundalini and experience all the negative elements of not being properly prepared, I simply do not recommend it for the idle readers of the forum. And why go to that extreme? Is it ego that you can and survive it? What is the point if enlightenment is supposed to be joyous? Your result seems to have missed the point and correct result. I don’t mind if you climb the vertical cliff of intense struggle. But this is not a race. Where is the boundary between careless, reckless, and bold? I’d simply rather examine the map thoroughly and walk upslope to the top of the hill so I can save my energy for the true pleasure enlightenment can bring.
And what you posted is not crazy, I can understand the mechanics of what it is intended to do, but I don't have to because I am well beyond it.
Richard Smith CH
Hi Veeaye,
Thank you for your feedback. I do want you to continue posting and I do enjoy discussing things with you and everyone else.
I hope you can understand that my intention is not to be "right" on these matters, only to express a different perspective. Just because we do not agree on everything does not mean that we can't discuss our different opinions. I will however be more careful so that we may do this without my offending you.
I appreciate your telling me and I do apologise for any offense caused.
M.:headbang:
Aww gez, I'm sorry. :( When it comes to opinion I don't think anyone can be an authority. It's just a statement of thought.
I think it gets a little tricky when someone claimes a truth about something that is questionable. I think that this opens up the arena to debate. I welcome debate as long as we keep it respectful.
Aww c'mon and play. Run circles ... bring friends! :hello2:Quote:
Subject to the explicit consent of the management of this site, the well respected MindPlace corporation, responsible for the insights behind products that have been a genuine response to requests from those seeking enhanced means of deducing truth from the myriad of fragments made available to any one of us, I would be delighted to play, and I can think of a dozen other contributors to these forums who could run circles around you in arguments about higher truths, and what's more, none of us actually agree on most things.
What? I'm not god. Gez ... now you tell me. On a more serious level - good point.Quote:
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. They are not entitled to the unrefuted opportunity to announce themselves as the arbiter of truth and light.
I don't so much care if one thinks they know more than me - maybe they do. Things such a moral high-grounds ... they make me chuckle ...except when it's me that comes across that way .... in that case it's "Bad Marisa!!! ".Quote:
A weak defense of the moral high ground is something especially repugnant to me.
Craig - I really wish you would join in. I've had wonderful conversations with you over email and think that others would benefit from your experiences and thoughts. Please join in. What can I do to make you feel more comfortable to do this?
M.
There is a box that looks like it has writing on it. It's between the box with the picture and the "#" sign. If you highlight the area you want to quote and then press the "quote" box, you'll get quotes. You can also do it manually by typing [quote] at the beginning of the message you want quoted and [/quote] at the end.
Yes this is fun.Quote:
The fun part I have with the research that I do is connecting the dots and finding where things fit in the bigger picture.
The problem I have in accepting this as fact is that this energy is not spoken of in any medical texts, nor have I ever seen any research that validates this energy.Quote:
Lets start with Chi. Our ancient eastern brothers and sisters through the art of touch noticed a flow of energy that moves through our bodies in a very distinct pattern. through multiple observations they located what we now know as meridian lines. these lines follow a very repeatable and accurate location throughout the whole body.
The second problem I have is with "ancient knowledge". Ancients believed all kinds of things that have been found to have no merit ... so why should we believe this particular thing?
Having said that, some people swear by acupuncture and others by energy healing. In the end, if this is what someone wants to try and if they find benefit in it - I'm not sure how much it matters on whether it's real or not. On the other hand, it would be awful for someone with a life-threatening condition to rely on "ancient medicine" alone.
In Canada - medical school is not a requirement to practice alternative medicine. There are some medical doctors though that also practice natural medicine but the "natural medicine" isn't part of the medical school curriculum - as far as I know.Quote:
You more then likely know what I am talking about. they are so sure that they exist that to practice any form of bodywork you are required to go to medical school even to practice the most basic form of shiatsu or reflexology not to mention acupuncture. Thanks to modern science and the ability to dissect the human body our scientist and doctors have found the anatomical equivalent of these lines.
Interesting explanation - thank you. This is beyond my knowledge. I study the mind more so than the body.Quote:
There is a single all encompassing structure that wraps it self around every cell, every bone and muscle, and every organ in one continues loop it is called fascia. Without it the human body would be a kind of glob of soft tissue and calcium deposits with no shape or structure. If you where to take everything out of the body that wasn't fascia we could not only recognize you as a person. Also as who you are you friends and loved ones would still know who you are. Some of this fascia creates dense lines throughout the body these lines follow the same pattern as the meridian lines of old. Interestingly enough our nerves system blends into this fascial system so it can have access to our entire body. to keep everything alive and functioning.
Concerning Chi. the denser portions of fascia have less electrical resistance so the nerve impulse can reach its desired location more efficiently. Our eastern brother simply gave the name "Chi" to the electrical flow throughout our body. A real and scientificly mensurable energy source. all living things have this energy running through them without it there would be no life.
The art of Tai Chi teaches you how to move that energy throughout the body at will (if you find the right teacher).
Now on spirit. first we need to know what spirit is to understand its scientific validatidy . I like to put spirit and ether on the same pedestal it makes it easier to find and understand its substance.
Our wonderful people in the scientific comunity have painstakingly chopped matter down to its tiniest parts to try and find the how and why to existence and reality. In this search we have came across and interesting phonominon. Deep within matter it self there is an ever present (for lack of a better word) hum that resonates throughout all relms of reality. it is one frequency that connects every thing to every thing. The Tibetan name for it is Ohm. I know you have herd of it. you remember my statment. "Remember that we are but a tiny part of an ever present infinite whole." that infinite whole is the hum I speak of. that hum is the spirit and the ether all in one. without them there would be nothing. that hum is a lot like the fascia that runs throughout our bodies. it is the connective tissue that holds reality together.
That is an interesting point about the frequency associated with the chant of "Ohm". I recall reading something about this ... I think it falls in the Alpha range - though I can't think of the specific frequency off hand.
That's assuming that "divine awareness" exists beyond one's personal belief system.Quote:
On the topic of schizophrenia. I do apologize for the insult. Let me try to explain why I feel that way.
The common symptoms are why I feel that it is an inability to prosses divine awareness.
Consciousness can be measured with EEG. That is, if you are associating consciousness with brain function.Quote:
But first lets have a look at the science that studies the mind and consciousness, psychology. To begin with consciousness is an intangible substance that cannot be measured by any known means as of yet.
MRI, PET and EEG scans are all able to detect brain activation due to thinking. We are able to prove beyond a doubt that we can think. Our brain function is soley responsible for our ability to think. Remove the brain and there is no more consciousness or thought ... or life.Quote:
As per you statement on energy and belief that would put this respectable science deep in the belief a opinion category. Yet unlike alchemy and magick (just to name a few) it has reached the same place that chemistry and physics has in most scientific circles. How? I don't have the slightest idea. but it has none-the-less.
anyways schizophrenia.
We all engage in hallucination frequently. Think about how many times you've looked for something and couldn't find it ...only to find it later right under your nose. That's a negative hallucination. Auditory and visual hallucinations are also quite common. They become a problem when they become too frequent and interfere with one's ability to function in society. In other words, while it's normal to hallucinate some, it's not normal to hallucinate most of the time or for long periods of time. To hallucinate in a way that you lose touch with reality.Quote:
some of the symptoms are seeing, hearing, smelling, ECT. things that no one else can. as well as magickal thinking as you said before. I have studied mysticism for over half my life. I see, hear, feel, smell things that no one else can and any one who studies the Arcane Arts can a-test to the same symptoms.
Schizophrenia has different degrees of severity. Some people can not function without being a danger to themselves and others and so they need to take anti-psychotic drugs.Quote:
Schizophrenia is the diagnosis when these so called hallucination and delusions interfere with your ability to function in "normal" reality(AKA inability to prosses divine awareness). In our ancient past these people where held in the highest regard as psychics, sages, medicine men and so on. Great kings and the like would not move forward with any plan before consulting these schizophrenics a they are called today.
I still hold these special few in the highest regard. I am also appalled by the fact that society medicates and institutionalizes these people instead of embracing there gifts and teaching them how to use them.
By the way one of my uncles is a diagnosed schizophrenic and heavily medicated. There are Many mental disorders that i think are gifts that we as a people are loosing because of the so called need to medicate and turn them "normal"
I knew of one girl who had schizophrenia and her appliances would have conversations with her. Not a bit harmful thing. However, the schizophrenia would cause her also to go into cleaning frenzies where she would throw away furniture and house hold items, wash the cat food and paint everything white. Not healthy.
I didn't know her that well and I don't know if the drugs made her life much better. In some ways it did and in other ways it didn't but there weren't other alternatives because you can't have someone living in a house with no furniture and scrubbing cat food.
In some of the minor cases of schizophrenia, the person may not need medication but may need some supervision. They may not pay their bills, bath or take proper care of themselves.
Just because someone thinks their belief is a fact does not make it a fact. Beliefs are the most difficult things to change. Our unconscious mind is set up to validate and support our beliefs. Still ... it doesn't have anything to do with truth. We are capable of believing false things as well as true things. A belief is a personal conviction of truth not an actual factual truth. There is a difference.Quote:
on fact and opinion. I would like you to convince a devout religious person that there "belief" is not a fact. no amount of evidence you have to prove or disprove anything will change what someone believes is true if they aren't willing to change there perspective. that doesn't mean that my statement is any less true or false. I just hope you better understand why i think in that way.
I took a course on critical thinking in college and the fun thing about the art of argumentation (in critical thinking not fight arguments) is that the argument is all about being the most convincing and to be logically sound. You lose points in the argument if your statement can be shown to be "unsound" because of faulty reasoning. It doesn't mean whoever wins the argument speaks the truth - it just means that they were most convincing and used sound reasoning or didn't get caught using flawed reasoning.Quote:
If it wasn't for critical thinking and questioning everything I would have never come to the conclusions I have reached.
What it's done for me is make me look at what someone is saying and what support or reasoning they are using. Some statements look like they make sense when you read them or hear them but if you examined the statement, you may find flaws in logic.
I'm by no means an expert at this, nor are all of my statements logically sound. It's just a good exercise in thinking.
Me too! I think to have a truly open mind, you have to be willing to consider other perspectives. It doesn't mean you have to believe them but you have to be willing to give up your beliefs if they don't meet your challenge. That - is not an easy thing to do!! Been there ... likely will go there again.Quote:
the fun part I think with all this info is that my knowledge is all ways changing and growing I add and subtract to my data base every day. there have been a many of time I contradicted my self and not bean able to express why. I'd like to think that I am all ways changing like the sands of a beach.
Thank you for your conversation.
M.
Hi Marisa,
My position is that everything is in doubt. To the newborn babe, everything really is in doubt. As we grow, day-to-day things become less uncertain - it becomes possible to function in society. Once our obligations are met, we have time for our own pursuits. Some of us choose to spend time exploring the realms of "the spirit". It's interesting to see how "beliefs" have transitioned over the ages from an essential mythology to keep the darkness at bay and the community together, to the "points of difference" they are today.
A difficulty that arises for many is the expectation of finding authority, which leads to literal interpretation of the metaphor and symbolism that makes communicating the uncommunicable vaguely possible, which further leads to the making of statements in the expectation that they will be accepted a priori.
The realm of doubt diminishes with study and experience. Specialists in any field have far less doubt about how their specialisation works than anyone else - everybody else makes do with an approximation suited to their needs and capacity. It's all very well to have "beliefs", but the foundation on which they are based depends on how effectively the realm of doubt has been reduced in the area of discussion. The study of spirituality will lead a person to very strange places if it is not balanced with practical and academic knowledge of the sphere of interest as well. If anyone wishes to discuss "plasma" or "ether", I will be delighted to engage with an excellent lay understanding of the many meanings of the terms, the lack of which is evident in many opinions.
Earlier in this thread I asked for a clarification of "omni-Hertz" - surprisingly, Hertz continues to be flexibly interpreted - it is a defined unit created specifically so that there is a fixed reference for the measurement of repetitive events. "Omni" means "all". "All-Hertz" is a stunningly poor term for unfiltered broadband noise. "Omni" is not of the same type as "kilo", "tera", etc. and so cannot exist in such a series.
I would enjoy learning more about the paths others have taken to get to their present understanding. I have gone to great lengths to "show my workings" so that people can make an informed decision on what to do with what I say. I'm curious how so many people can claim the same sources and arrive at such different places.
A question I would put is this... Is a "discussion" possible between individuals with substantially different agendas and backgrounds to their views? Communication works best when a "master" is identified in any forum. Defense of a particular view in the face of higher quality information is a definite indication of non-mastery. A bunch of individuals of indeterminate expertise tossing ideas around with no clear means of discrimination is not my idea of a discussion.
Cheers,
Craig
Quick edit to add this link to a strangle little site where a strange little book on magick may be downloaded.
Mastery is recognised in accordance with the documented work the individual has done to satisfy the standard of others of similar grade. In academia it is the system of degrees, in the military it is rank, commerce/promotion, church/title, etc.
I worked with Adamas, I published his book. I matched his grade. I also published journals that document a significant aspect of the NZ occult scene 1997-2001 - the PDFs and printed copies can be found out in the wild - Circlecaster and The Ecliptic and the Fool.
Admittedly, that is a very small realm over which to claim mastery, but a realm none the less. Thelemic Law recognises that sovereignty, whilst simultaneously according the same sovereignty to any other individual who may declare that they have "found their way". The wonderful thing is that along the way I had the opportunity to exchange ideas with others who were working with similar goals, and to thereby avoid unproductive research and point others in directions I have found useful.
If there is not such an animal, then humanity is in far worse shape than even I give credit. I always remember a piece of graffiti on wall of the city approach to the Sydney Harbour Bridge (yes, back when it was THE city approach) - There Is No Keeper of The Key. I was under 12 at the time, and I have forever since been unwilling to accept that statement. There are many Keepers of The Key - everyone who has furthered knowledge and understanding of a particular field - but for just that moment that no-one has taken their lead and advanced. It's a baton race - lots of ways to pick up a baton, but it's much better when you pick one up and drop it off in the same race.
Cheers,
Craig
P.S. The graffiti was just along from "Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like bananas" - I had no idea just how much time I would find myself spending on the contemplation of the arrow of time.
I can see your point. While degrees & certifications are some form of measurement - the level of knowledge is certainly not equal unless there is a universal standard set. We've all come across professionals who have credentials up their butt and are still dumb as a stump and there are those who don't have a degree and should be awarded one because of their knowledge in the area. In trades, mastery is much easier to discern because their work is a reflection of their knowledge.
Perhaps with something like spirituality we can judge a person by the way they conduct themselves, level of maturity and wisdom. If their personal life is consistently a mess, then I would say that there is no mastery there. We all have bad days and trying periods - maybe it's how we conduct ourselves during those times. Hmmm you are certainly inspiring me to think deeper on this subject.
Perhaps, like you said, this is only relevant to the person whom this means something to and totally meaningless to someone else who is into something else. For example, someone who is a Reiki master - this doesn't mean anything to me because I don't study that discipline but to someone who is into Reiki - this is a big deal. Or my certification in NLP, to another NLPer this is something (yay me) but to many psychologists it's insignificant. I think it lies within the eyes of the beholder.Quote:
I worked with Adamas, I published his book. I matched his grade. I also published journals that document a significant aspect of the NZ occult scene 1997-2001 - the PDFs and printed copies can be found out in the wild - Circlecaster and The Ecliptic and the Fool.
That's a good point.Quote:
Admittedly, that is a very small realm over which to claim mastery, but a realm none the less. Thelemic Law recognises that sovereignty, whilst simultaneously according the same sovereignty to any other individual who may declare that they have "found their way". The wonderful thing is that along the way I had the opportunity to exchange ideas with others who were working with similar goals, and to thereby avoid unproductive research and point others in directions I have found useful.
If it's a person's personal belief system - I say fine .. live and let live but when it starts involving others and creating "truths" from made up crap ... arg! I think much of this has more to do with greed and ego than actual spirituality.Quote:
If there is not such an animal, then humanity is in far worse shape than even I give credit. I always remember a piece of graffiti on wall of the city approach to the Sydney Harbour Bridge (yes, back when it was THE city approach) - There Is No Keeper of The Key. I was under 12 at the time, and I have forever since been unwilling to accept that statement. There are many Keepers of The Key - everyone who has furthered knowledge and understanding of a particular field - but for just that moment that no-one has taken their lead and advanced. It's a baton race - lots of ways to pick up a baton, but it's much better when you pick one up and drop it off in the same race.
Not to mention the danger of pseudoscience often getting mistaken for real science .... ooo I feel a tangent coming on .... restrain yourself Marisa ....
Ya sure, get me thinking about it now. Thanks.Quote:
P.S. The graffiti was just along from "Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like bananas" - I had no idea just how much time I would find myself spending on the contemplation of the arrow of time.
M.
Hi Marisa,
The qualification factories of today have certainly diminished the value of undergraduate degrees - there's no shortage of batchelors and masters that aren't worth the paper they're printed on. I think "classical" academia is still to be found in the post-grad world - I've met a good few very strange Doctors and Professors, but never one I would consider "dumb as a stump".
Absolutely - "walking the walk" is the ultimate indicator, and not just when it's all going your way. The tough bits are the good bits where you can really put it all to the test.
The question of "what you're into" is an interesting one. There are some techniques and traditions that I can only recognise as play-acting - there is no discernable substance to their system or practices. Being master of a system that provides no legitimate mechanism whereby Will can be made manifest is pretty pointless. Out of their original cultural context I would say most energy practices fall into this category. NLP is a slightly different case. The mechanism is there, but the assumptions about how the mind works, and how it responds to word games is dubious ("Friend or Foe")
Pseudoscience - an ever opening vista! I can imagine a group of professors in the same field sitting over a few beers and laughing at the foolishness of one of their young colleagues, "You know he still thinks you can transpose lambda and mu in order to limit delta" - what is recognisable as folly depends on what you know. Rather than attempting to know everything in detail it is sufficient for a generalist to understand the basics so that when a detail doesn't seem to fit, an informed determination can be made as to whether it's just this piece that doesn't fit, or whether no such piece can fit. In pseudoscience there are many attempts to put together pieces that can never fit. (Before anyone goes nuts trying to work out if you can profitably transpose lambda and mu, the example is nonsense).
Ultimately I'm pretty pragmatic about the whole thing - if it's doing it for you, and the price is acceptable, just keep doing it. It's only if you think it might be a good idea to release your ideas into the world at large that you really need to ensure that your system is consistent with the nature of reality.
Cheers,
Craig