kundalini awakening

Hi Craig,

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Originally Posted by CraigT

Hi Marisa,

NLP is a slightly different case. The mechanism is there, but the assumptions about how the mind works, and how it responds to word games is dubious ("Friend or Foe")

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"Modelling", as you know, is only one aspect of NLP and it is very useful in learning new skills. You know, monkey see - so ahhh that's how monkey do.

There is much more to the language aspect of NLP than can fairly be called "word games". I can see where it may appear as such, especially given some of the stupid books or video out there that give superficial instruction to basic manipulation and call it "NLP".

On the other hand, the brain is quite easy to trick (i.e. optical illusions, stage magic,etc.) and the mind is equally vulnerable to unwanted "programming". Since many of this unwanted programs can develop quite quickly (a phobia) it stands to reason that these programs can also be deleted quite quickly - it's a matter of technique.

You learned in your magick studies the power of the Will and the Word and we see its effects all the time. Someone can say a few words and we feel hurt, angry or inspired and proud. Think about all the "accidental" words that cause reaction. Hypnosis and NLP is a matter of directed word translated into a language the unconscious mind understands best.

The tool is only as adequate as the user. Just because I can't hammer a nail in straight doesn't mean the hammer sucks. :D

M.

Marisa, you misunderstand me.

NLP works just fine, because there is an intrinsic mechanism whereby the brain can change associations. What is dubious is the explanations given in the various schools of NLP-like practice. As one might ask of anyone appointing themselves guru, one needs to look at Bandler and ask how much is substance and how much is show. He is entirely clever - he found something the brain will do quite happily and put together a package to help you do it.

Precisely the same may be said of AVS. There are numerous viable mechanisms whereby AVS might be effective, but at present we don't know exactly which are or why. Each proponent of AVS is at liberty to advocate a particular technique or regime. Assuming they are not deliberately defrauding, then it will only be the n=lots trialling in the wild that will reveal whether this guys great idea has broader applicability.

To summarise - pretty much any method will work if the outcome is possible, it is just a matter of time and comfort that distinguishes the methods.

Cheers,
Craig

Marisa

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The problem I have in accepting this as fact is that this energy is not spoken of in any medical texts, nor have I ever seen any research that validates this energy.

The second problem I have is with "ancient knowledge". Ancients believed all kinds of things that have been found to have no merit ... so why should we believe this particular thing?

Having said that, some people swear by acupuncture and others by energy healing. In the end, if this is what someone wants to try and if they find benefit in it - I'm not sure how much it matters on whether it's real or not. On the other hand, it would be awful for someone with a life-threatening condition to rely on "ancient medicine" alone.

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I do understand the problem here. I myself and a few other scientists are working on giving the world the tangible proof it needs. We are on the cusp of great understanding when it comes to a new way of thinking about energy. The reason why I am trying to learn how to write research papers is so the world of academia will take me seriously when I present my findings.
I took me many years before i finally realized that i need to pay my dues and do more tangible experiments rather than mental ones. As of now I have multiple experiments and case studies on people that are giving me the results that I was hoping to see. Some of my experiments involve the devices offered here at mind place. unfortunately My funds are low at the moment I am still waiting for my tax return, until then those particular experiments will have to wait.

Some ancient knowledge has no merit I do agree. But a greater percentage does. I may not be able to give you proof that you would like to see. but it will happen. I may not be on the for-front of these discoveries sense there are many men and women further along in their research than I. Thats not whats important to me. Whats important is that it is happening and I have my hand in it.

I also agree about using ancient medicine alone that could be a terrible idea. I believe that using a combined approach can induce greater results than any one of the medical disciplines alone.

Here is a couple of books you might be interested in.
Vibrational Medicine by Richard Gerber, M.D.
Quantum Healing by Deepak Chopra, M.D.
The Biology of Belief by Bruce H. Lipton, PhD.
The Divine Matrix by Gregg Braden
The Hidden Messages in Water by Dr. Masaru Emoto

By the way I am curious what your credentials are.
Mine don't put me in the world respectable science as of yet. but like you said there are a many credentialed people that aren't worth the weight of the paper it is printed on and people who deserve it for there knowledge on there given subject.
I'm a nationally certified Massage Therapist and Bodyworker. Also I was told that there is a possible Doctorates Program For Massage and bodywork in Canada if you know anything about it I would be most grateful for any information you have

I would also like to thank you. I have posted many of my thoughts in multiple forums and this is the first place that anyone has replied with anything intelligent. you have made me take the time to think about how I am going to write what i am saying and get my point across clearly. this has been a learning experience indeed and I look forward for more.

thank you again

thewolfrey

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Originally Posted by thewolfrey

I do understand the problem here. I myself and a few other scientists are working on giving the world the tangible proof it needs. We are on the cusp of great understanding when it comes to a new way of thinking about energy. The reason why I am trying to learn how to write research papers is so the world of academia will take me seriously when I present my findings.

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Wonderful! I wish you great success in your endeavors.

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I took me many years before i finally realized that i need to pay my dues and do more tangible experiments rather than mental ones. As of now I have multiple experiments and case studies on people that are giving me the results that I was hoping to see. Some of my experiments involve the devices offered here at mind place. unfortunately My funds are low at the moment I am still waiting for my tax return, until then those particular experiments will have to wait.

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If you haven't already, you may want to consider looking into what makes a credible experiment according to the scientific community or peers that will review and hopefully publish the results. I know very little about this ... so I'm in no position to give advice. :dontknow:

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Some ancient knowledge has no merit I do agree. But a greater percentage does. I may not be able to give you proof that you would like to see. but it will happen. I may not be on the for-front of these discoveries sense there are many men and women further along in their research than I. That's not whats important to me. Whats important is that it is happening and I have my hand in it.

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How would you determine whether the "knowledge" has merit or not? Just curious.

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Here is a couple of books you might be interested in.
Vibrational Medicine by Richard Gerber, M.D.
Quantum Healing by Deepak Chopra, M.D.
The Biology of Belief by Bruce H. Lipton, PhD.
The Divine Matrix by Gregg Braden
The Hidden Messages in Water by Dr. Masaru Emoto

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I've read "Biology of Belief" - I learned some interesting things about cellular biology! I especially was quite surprised to learn that it was the membrane of the cell and not the nucleus that holds the "brain".

I read "Quantum Healing" a long time ago ... don't remember much of it. I find Deepak a bit too New Agey for me.

To add to your list: Body Electric by Robert Becker, M.D., and Gary Selden is a good read. "The Root of Chinese Qigong" by Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming is an excellent book on the subject and "Rhythms of the Brain" by Gyorgy Buzsaki (though this one is a really tough read).

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By the way I am curious what your credentials are.

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Certified Master Practitioner NLP (2000), Certified Master Practitioner Hypnotherapy (2003). Before I took my NLP training, I worked as a Private Investigator (specialized in fraud & internal theft) and Crime Prevention Instructor and was a member of a Criminal Profiling Group. The relevance here was that I was interested in deviant behavior which lead to my further studies on the brain etc. I've been "published" but mostly in the crime prevention field.

I've been working with Mindplace since 2003.

I belonged to the TGD (Thelemic Golden Dawn) for about 5 or 6 years and achieved the "grade" Adeptus Major. During my time with the TGD, I was "given license" to open and run my own TGD Sanctuary where I did Neophyte initiations and was the guiding principle for a group of Neophytes. I was also an officer in the Aleister Crowley Foundation. This is actually pretty meaningless unless one is into Magick. The "lineage" which is important to some, went back to Israel Regardie and Crowley. I only mention this because it shows that I did my time in formal magick training. Studied magick on my own for 15 years or so before my time with TGD.

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Mine don't put me in the world respectable science as of yet. but like you said there are a many credentialed people that aren't worth the weight of the paper it is printed on and people who deserve it for there knowledge on there given subject.

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Mine either. :) I guess its all relative on who is doing the judging. Me, I'm running a business and I just happen to be interested in matters of the mind. A degree would be nice (I do have quite a few uni courses behind me) but I do not pursue it because I do not find the courses I'd have to take all that interesting. I want to study what I'm interested in and formal education doesn't cover it.

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I'm a nationally certified Massage Therapist and Bodyworker. Also I was told that there is a possible Doctorates Program For Massage and bodywork in Canada if you know anything about it I would be most grateful for any information you have

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I'm not tied into that community and so I haven't got a clue as to what's available and what's not. You'd probably have better luck with Google. So what is Body work?

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I would also like to thank you. I have posted many of my thoughts in multiple forums and this is the first place that anyone has replied with anything intelligent. you have made me take the time to think about how I am going to write what i am saying and get my point across clearly. this has been a learning experience indeed and I look forward for more.

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That's really nice of you to say. Thanks. :D This is exactly the effect I want the forum to have.

thewolfrey[/quote]

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Originally Posted by CraigT

Marisa, you misunderstand me.

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Whoops. Thanks for clearning that up.

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NLP works just fine, because there is an intrinsic mechanism whereby the brain can change associations. What is dubious is the explanations given in the various schools of NLP-like practice. As one might ask of anyone appointing themselves guru, one needs to look at Bandler and ask how much is substance and how much is show. He is entirely clever - he found something the brain will do quite happily and put together a package to help you do it.

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True. What's cool about Bandler is his presentation. He's absolutely entertaining to watch and I've learned a lot from his books and DVDs. He definitely knows his stuff. There are only a handful of NLPers whose material I follow but that's a personal thing. I'm sure there are many, many who are exceptional. If someone has received their training from a Certified NLP Trainer, then that training should be good because the certification requirements are standardized. The Trainer's Training is different than Master Practitioner and a Master Practitioner is not a qualified NLP Trainer (we may have the knowledge of the NLP curriculum but we lack the training skills and experience which really make a big difference.

While books and such can help someone learn some relevant techniques and ideology of NLP, it's not the same as taking the training. It's probably because most people skip over the basics and move on to the interesting stuff. Kind of like skipping the anatomy class and moving on to surgery.

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Precisely the same may be said of AVS. There are numerous viable mechanisms whereby AVS might be effective, but at present we don't know exactly which are or why. Each proponent of AVS is at liberty to advocate a particular technique or regime. Assuming they are not deliberately defrauding, then it will only be the n=lots trialling in the wild that will reveal whether this guys great idea has broader applicability.

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It depends on who is doing the arguing for and against AVS. I followed the argument between Novella and Transparent Corp and there were good points scored on both sides. On the other hand, I've read the work of Budzynski, Hutchinson (sp) and find their evidence quite compelling. I've been a student of this particular discipline for going on 7 years and I've only scratched the surface in understanding this very complex subject. Some parts of it are not so complex and others (like the work of Gyorgy Buzsaki) I find very difficult to totally comprehend. It's like the book I'm reading on the neurology of hypnosis ... feel those neurons explode EEK.:eek: I'm just a simple girl after all.

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To summarise - pretty much any method will work if the outcome is possible, it is just a matter of time and comfort that distinguishes the methods.

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True dat!

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Originally Posted by Richard Smith

Let's back up for a minute. Where the others have defined their background clearly I have not and that may lend a greater light on the subject. I started meditation and martial arts in 1968. I?ve examined all forms of meditation from Hindu through Zen. I am versed in Wicca and shamanism and have worked with elders in all the above structures. I have also gone through not less then 20 books on the following religions: Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Druid, Wiccan, and shamanic and a few more remote religions such as Ogham. My profession for 25 years was as a Consulting Technical Computer specialist (I analyze things for underlying structures at, according to a college I attended, the doctoral level of complexity. The degree was outside of my financial reach.). I have posted credentials as a certified hypnotist and Reiki Master Trainer but I have also developed a healing methodology that is not symbolic like Reiki that provides a structure that can easily be replicated. My experience with Kundalini is first hand and I have helped a number of people through the event that have shown marked side effects before being opened to it. I simply eased the transition.

I am not fighting with anyone, I am simply stating my experience and how it applies.

>>3. The map is not the territory. <<

thewolfrey is right in a true NLP sense. Marissa simply seems focused on her map and territory.

>>I understand what you are saying. I've had paranoiac and delusive thought's to begin with. <<

veeaye has the right to fling himself into Kundalini and experience all the negative elements of not being properly prepared, I simply do not recommend it for the idle readers of the forum. And why go to that extreme? Is it ego that you can and survive it? What is the point if enlightenment is supposed to be joyous? Your result seems to have missed the point and correct result. I don?t mind if you climb the vertical cliff of intense struggle. But this is not a race. Where is the boundary between careless, reckless, and bold? I?d simply rather examine the map thoroughly and walk upslope to the top of the hill so I can save my energy for the true pleasure enlightenment can bring.

And what you posted is not crazy, I can understand the mechanics of what it is intended to do, but I don't have to because I am well beyond it.

Richard Smith CH

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I think divine awareness or enlightenment is a wonderful thing to persue, but it isn't my soul intention in all of this.

Throughout my whole life, i self sabotaged myself with fear, and I suffered allot and had regret. I had so many thing's I wanted to do but i kept failing.

After ten years this get's really frustrating.

I didn't want to spend m whole life doing affirmations, so I did kundalini to make it all come up - I wasn't completely aware of the effects but with my determination to succeed I will be done with it by the end of this year or sometime during the next. It takes most people around 7 years, btu I jam my brain with everything and push it until it evolves faster.

i want to live my life in accordance to my desires, when theres an oppertunity right before me, I want to see it. When there is potential to have a great friend or lover, I want to be able to meet them. I want to feel good enough to stay with my education and to even work. I want to be a normal functioning person but have this special awareness of everything in my world so that I can make better choices and reap better outcomes and this is why I'm doing kundalini.

Because most people are blinded by their ego to some degree, weather they know it or not, and I certainly know I was.

I think there are different levels of divine awareness and enlightenment and if you go too deep into it, you would see no need for physical experience. My intention is not that, it is to have the physical experience like everybody else; but to see thing's so much clearer so that I am strong, so that few thing's bother me, and so that I know exactly what to do and say to get what i want. And these are all side effects from having a risen kundalini. As far as I know, kundalini doesn't make you completely enlightenned, enlightenment is much more work. But it gives you the tools to really sucessfuly operate in a crazy world. If you are like me and you have constantly been sabotaged by fear, it's worth looking at. That being said, it's not something you want to force into being. Sometimes I regret doing it and wish I left it till later when my life was stable and I was more ready. The reason for this is that I am still in situations which I would say are the results of the thoughts I once thought, for example, I have a crazy neighbhour that tries to scare me into not calling the police because of his loud music. This sort of thing turns on the moral reflex, which is bad. Going through these challenges and having an awakenned kundalini and being determined to sort through everything while still trying to get on with your life puts you on overload. Lately because of the stress and extra entropy, ive been having minor car accidents and just randomly falling asleep at odd times of the day. I know I am going through too much, but now that I have awakenned my kundalini, I know that I have no choice.

I also noticed that I am very sensitive. This is strange because I thought kundalini would make me stronger. I guess there is this temporary sesntising stage. Thing's tend to stay in my head more so I do my best to keep away from drama, negative people, bad substances, TV and anything really that reminds me of anything negative. Though I can't always do that and dealing with dramatic friends is a real challenge. But I'm not going to lock myself up in a cave and meditate my whole life. I live in the real world. So i have to learn to cope on a new level, a deeper more aware level. I wouldn't go back though, knowing how many limiting beleifs and thoughts that are in the human body which obvsiously translate to having lower energy fields and more limitation in life - I don't want to live with those limiting beleifs. Most people aren't aware of them because we are really good at supressing. Kundalini will throw everything at you and see how well you deal with it, unless you already have. I feel like a volcano full of lava of issues. But I know eventually it will come to an end, I will be at peace and one with my inner soul. It's about getting yourself off auto-pilot completely, and becomming a more concsious and in control of your destiny, being. All way's work, but eventually (I beleive) every human being in every solar system will eventually find that they can only go so far before they must engage in this practice. It's ultimate evolution - I beleive.

Hi veeaye,

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Originally Posted by veeaye

I think divine awareness or enlightenment is a wonderful thing to pursue, but it isn't my soul intention in all of this.

Throughout my whole life, i self sabotaged myself with fear, and I suffered allot and had regret. I had so many thing's I wanted to do but i kept failing.

After ten years this gets really frustrating.

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So are you saying that by raising your kundalini that your fears and unwanted behaviors will go away or does this process involve learning some techniques on how to do this?

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I didn't want to spend m whole life doing affirmations, so I did kundalini to make it all come up - I wasn't completely aware of the effects but with my determination to succeed I will be done with it by the end of this year or sometime during the next. It takes most people around 7 years, btu I jam my brain with everything and push it until it evolves faster.

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Affirmations are only useful (IMHO) to reinforce change not to cause change. They usually don't work to cause change because there is a part of the person that doesn't believe the words of the affirmation. The mind is saying, "Ya but..." . It's not enough to know that we want change, we need to know how to make the change. Maybe raising the kundalini pushes you in the direction to seek that knowledge?

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i want to live my life in accordance to my desires, when there's an opportunity right before me, I want to see it. When there is potential to have a great friend or lover, I want to be able to meet them. I want to feel good enough to stay with my education and to even work. I want to be a normal functioning person but have this special awareness of everything in my world so that I can make better choices and reap better outcomes and this is why I'm doing kundalini.

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These certainly are good goals. Are you making some progress in this area?

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Because most people are blinded by their ego to some degree, weather they know it or not, and I certainly know I was.

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It's not something that one can over come just once and then never again. It sneaks up on you when you least expect it and then WHAM! :BangHead:

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As far as I know, kundalini doesn't make you completely enlightenned, enlightenment is much more work. But it gives you the tools to really successfully operate in a crazy world.

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What kind of tools? NLP, for example, gives you knowledge on how your mind works and understanding on why we do the crazy things we do. It also gives the person the capability to make the change - it fills in the "how to". I must be misunderstanding something because I'm thinking that all the raising the kundalini would do is help you become more aware. Perhaps the effects are cumulative, like the strength builds from all the ordeals you have to over come? Am I on the right track here?

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If you are like me and you have constantly been sabotaged by fear, it's worth looking at. That being said, it's not something you want to force into being. Sometimes I regret doing it and wish I left it till later when my life was stable and I was more ready. The reason for this is that I am still in situations which I would say are the results of the thoughts I once thought, for example, I have a crazy neighbour that tries to scare me into not calling the police because of his loud music. This sort of thing turns on the moral reflex, which is bad. Going through these challenges and having an awakened kundalini and being determined to sort through everything while still trying to get on with your life puts you on overload. Lately because of the stress and extra entropy, I've been having minor car accidents and just randomly falling asleep at odd times of the day. I know I am going through too much, but now that I have awakened my kundalini, I know that I have no choice.

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That's a lot of stuff to deal with at once. I'm particularly concerned about the falling asleep at odd times of the day. I'm also concerned about the constant stress level because stress can do awful things to your body. Lack of sleep and stress can lead you to too early a death. Maybe you could use some medical help to get things stabilized so that you can continue on your journey without having to fight the current so much?

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I also noticed that I am very sensitive. This is strange because I thought kundalini would make me stronger.

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The strength comes from recognizing your perseverance and accomplishments you have achieved so far. It comes from adopting a particular perspective on life (surviving and thriving). With strength comes determination. I think you have it, you are just not seeing it.

You may be increasingly sensitive as a result of the effects of the stress causing biochemical havoc in your body. Stress lowers your serotonin level, which affects your mood, sleep and ability to concentrate. Antidepressants will help bring your biochemistry back to normal while you work on the other aspects of moving forward. Alpha sessions on the AVS may help raise your serotonin level but I don't know if it would be enough to make a lasting change. Maybe - maybe you need additional tools.

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I guess there is this temporary sensitising stage. Thing's tend to stay in my head more so I do my best to keep away from drama, negative people, bad substances, TV and anything really that reminds me of anything negative. Though I can't always do that and dealing with dramatic friends is a real challenge. But I'm not going to lock myself up in a cave and meditate my whole life. I live in the real world. So i have to learn to cope on a new level, a deeper more aware level. I wouldn't go back though, knowing how many limiting beliefs and thoughts that are in the human body which obviously translate to having lower energy fields and more limitation in life - I don't want to live with those limiting beliefs. Most people aren't aware of them because we are really good at suppressing. Kundalini will throw everything at you and see how well you deal with it, unless you already have. I feel like a volcano full of lava of issues. But I know eventually it will come to an end, I will be at peace and one with my inner soul. It's about getting yourself off auto-pilot completely, and becoming a more conscious and in control of your destiny, being. All way's work, but eventually (I believe) every human being in every solar system will eventually find that they can only go so far before they must engage in this practice. It's ultimate evolution - I beleive.

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I agree with what you are saying. It is worth while to open the door and do the work necessary so that you can live in peace and happiness. Part of the work is finding the tools you need to balance mind and body.

You are much stronger than you give yourself credit for. You have survived some pretty serious ordeals. I hope you find a solution to the idiot with the loud music. :violent1:

M.

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So are you saying that by raising your kundalini that your fears and unwanted behaviors will go away or does this process involve learning some techniques on how to do this?

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I think kundalini is the most effective unsupressing tool, and the beautiful thing is, like most knowledge and wisdom, it lies within us, waiting to be awakenned. When I awakenned my kundalini I became aware of so many events from my childhood that I had concsiously forgotten let alone knew that I had not dealt with and that hindered my success. If I never awakenned it, I am sure I would have never uncovered the serious stuff because it was far too much for me to ever come to terms with. I know I still could have worked through thing's, but many thing's would have lied hidden.

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Affirmations are only useful (IMHO) to reinforce change not to cause change. They usually don't work to cause change because there is a part of the person that doesn't believe the words of the affirmation. The mind is saying, "Ya but..." . It's not enough to know that we want change, we need to know how to make the change. Maybe raising the kundalini pushes you in the direction to seek that knowledge?

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Thank you for that. That is really useful to know. Affirmations helped a little to get me into a subject, but mostly thing's that hit the sub-concsious worked much better, like energy work, paraliminals, NLP and mandala therapy.

YES kundalini so does push you in the direction of what you need. I'll give you an example, I was in the supermarket... and something in me went crazy and made me buy all these dark grapes. Another time I was possessed to buy a particular type of fish, squeeze lemon on it and coriander, put it in alfoil and under the grill, eat with rice, green beans and brocoli. I never heard of this and never did it, it was all intuition, but it was deeply satisfying and delicious. I later realsied that these foods are all brain foods. My intuition tells me often what to buy and where to go, it's this inner impulse that just takes you there. It's in it's beginning stages now, btu when I tap in and ask, it comes out and tells me and about 85% of the time it's right. I'm hoping to get that to 100%.

I beleive we all have that capability within us, it's just our layers of false beleifs and assumptions that take us away from intuition. I used to follow my logic allot, but it often failed me - and when I tried to follow intuition, I just ended up following fear not realising that fear IS the illusion.

Obviously it's been much easier for me to find thing's such as procyon, and I knew intuitively when to use it, but I didn't know which programmes to use and how often, so I found out using bio-feedback performed by my kinesiologist. That's why my healing has been able to be so accelerated.

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These certainly are good goals. Are you making some progress in this area?

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Extreme progress. I feel like kundalini, even though it's the greatest suffering, is the greatest gift one can have. The truth hurts at once, then it is bliss. When we know how to control our lives and our destiny, that's when we can really live it up. I've seen many improvements, I know how to handle people better and better, im more understanding, I have moments where I break down, but then re-establish myself in higher levels, and if this is what it takes for me to not be entrapped by the ego and go through those vicious life cycles, then so be it, it is well worth it. I do feel strongly that if I keep at this one day I will live a life of freedom. freedom from the ego, freedom to be do or have whatever i want and live in bliss. That is the promise of the kundalini, and it's nto as far fetched as people think it is, it's our divine birthright. We all know that.

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It's not something that one can over come just once and then never again. It sneaks up on you when you least expect it and then WHAM! :BangHead:

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You're right, I think I must have worked through around 400 fears in two years. As you can see, I've been working hard. Fears have different levels, you can have many fears of rejection, many fears of abondonment, or fears of success, or even resentment. These can emenate from past lives, genetic, childhood, etc. It's huge, really. Most people don't completely get rid of their fears. They just get rid of the strong ones, but the same fears still exist in weaker forms and often they are unaware of them because they are so small they can be well supressed. The magnificence and danger of the kundalini, is because it opens you up to take in allot of energy, and this energy feeds the beleifs you currently have, so even the smallest fear becomes big. That's why people have such a hard time on it. Kundalini is a deep cleansing, it forces you to face your 'shadows' so to speak, and then clear them out. It's relentless and tiring but I know I am moving forward and beyond this, are divine capabilities and many amazing lifetimes of wisdom, knowledge, bliss and love.

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What kind of tools? NLP, for example, gives you knowledge on how your mind works and understanding on why we do the crazy things we do. It also gives the person the capability to make the change - it fills in the "how to". I must be misunderstanding something because I'm thinking that all the raising the kundalini would do is help you become more aware. Perhaps the effects are cumulative, like the strength builds from all the ordeals you have to over come? Am I on the right track here?

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Oh NLP is AMAZING, most of my healing has been NLP, I've been using NLP to help eradicate the fears and rubbish mental processes which have arisen from the kundalini. What I realised is that I had so many fears and so many negative associations in my mind, that it would have been literely impossible for me NOT to commit suicide. My mind was completely screwed up. NLP is responsible for 85% of my healing. I mostly do special linguistics, which is with eye modes, beleif modes, breathing and saying words to embed them in various parts of the brain - thsi is very effective, but only with the guidance of a qualified kinesiolgoist for they can find what specific therapies you need at any given time through use of the bio-feedback system. I've also done the timeline quite a few times, this has helped me steer onto the right direction and I used it to convince my mind that everything is going well when I feared the most - mostly just regurgitated stuff from the past. Boy when I heard the words "you create your own reality" and then took the initiative to heal... boy was I in for a suprise! I've also done the timeline in reference to a future life and pre-planning. This might sound crazy but what kundalini does is it gives you past life memory and allows you greater awareness and control over possible future realities, including future lives. Through accessing the bio-feedback, I asked some questions as my intuition was alerted. I found that kundalini is a process of integration of higher self into the body. Which means you become a 'whole' being, opperating from the perspective of your soul, not your current physical identity. This brings upon more awareness of yourself from an even deeper level and naturally most people have out of body experiences as have I. I have met and spoken to my guides. Face to face on the astral plane. This isn't delusion as I can clearly feel the difference from an astral projection than a dream, like you would a dream from being awake. Kundalini makes you awake, it puts the truth in front of your eyes and this will hurt, because you have supressed stuff from very long ago. But if you want the vibration to be able to access your soul memory and therefore your higher intelligence, you will have to deal with past life stuff, which can also be very difficult at first then enlightenning. But heres the catch, not everyone experiences this. I've also had genetic past life memory (thats right the memories are in the cells) and, my kinesiologist has the ability to connect herself to people and have their memories. She has described things clearly from my past, as well as past lives. I don't have that ability yet, and I don't seek it so I suppose that's why it hasn't come to me. Kundalini allows us for greater possibilities. Possibilities which require a very high vibration soul. Kundalini gives us the promise of using ALL of our brains and even more. (yes it is more than possible to use for example 120% of your braisn or more!).

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That's a lot of stuff to deal with at once. I'm particularly concerned about the falling asleep at odd times of the day. I'm also concerned about the constant stress level because stress can do awful things to your body. Lack of sleep and stress can lead you to too early a death. Maybe you could use some medical help to get things stabilized so that you can continue on your journey without having to fight the current so much?

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It's a nightmare, but the whole point of living is to grow. It is an obsession for me, I'll admit it. But it's the best obession I've had and the best oen I will ever have and it will take me to amazing places. Any highly successful artist or athlete is obsessed with what they do. If you want to be the best, love it and taste it with all your being, give it all your attention and then it must be yours. As far as the stress is concerned, name one person with kundalini who doesn't have it - that's just a given. I can't use medical help - I react to any kind of anti-depressant / anti anxiety, but I do use st johns wort which is a natural alternative.

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The strength comes from recognizing your perseverance and accomplishments you have achieved so far. It comes from adopting a particular perspective on life (surviving and thriving). With strength comes determination. I think you have it, you are just not seeing it.

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It's funny you should mention that because I actually realised that I do have more stength than I thought. But the problem was is that I had this deepsetting fear of being judged, so all of my actions and words were guided by this background fear of being judged. I finally came to the conclusion today that I would do whatever the hell I want and would not care what anyone thinks or says. This takes allot of re-asserting yourself as the sub-concsious mind seems to be designed to want to please others. The pain and suffering comes from not loving yourself and others unconditionally, once you take on that firm beleif of unconditional love and acceptance, almost all suffering is gone. But this is a process. Many people claim that they love and accept unconditionally, but actually doing that is one of the most near impossible tasks of being human.

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You may be increasingly sensitive as a result of the effects of the stress causing biochemical havoc in your body. Stress lowers your serotonin level, which affects your mood, sleep and ability to concentrate. Antidepressants will help bring your biochemistry back to normal while you work on the other aspects of moving forward. Alpha sessions on the AVS may help raise your serotonin level but I don't know if it would be enough to make a lasting change. Maybe - maybe you need additional tools.

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I think the reason why I'm sensitive is because I now perceive from more of a soul-level. This means that emotions and words hurt more for me and I am much more sensitive to negative energy. It just takes getting used to and adaption to be able to live harmoniously as someone who is deeply connected to spirit. That seems to be a dangerious thing in this time and place, whereas many thousands of years in the past people were adorned by free flowing positive energy, love, ritual and acceptance. Also what you said about the bio-chemistry is entriely true as well. Both go hand in hand, the 'spirit' has mroe of a biological influence on people than they know.

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I agree with what you are saying. It is worth while to open the door and do the work necessary so that you can live in peace and happiness. Part of the work is finding the tools you need to balance mind and body.

You are much stronger than you give yourself credit for. You have survived some pretty serious ordeals. I hope you find a solution to the idiot with the loud music. :violent1:

M.

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It is a challenge, but I know that as soon as I am in a position to make more money, I can move outta here. There are options which will present themselves a little later. I just need to be patient and have faith. Marissa thank you so much for your reply, your words were consistent, wise and helpful. I really love hearing from you, thank you for taking the time to reply to my posts.

Vahid.

PS. I recommend people go online and search 'kundaini awakenning' and read through other peoples accounts, it is very challenging but the growth and wisdom and realisation that comes from it is well worth all of it - If you consider how insignificant our present lives are in contrast to the many thousands of lives we have lived and will live. I beleive buddha and many asscended masters had access to their great knowledge thanks to their kundalini. Theres no greater way of acessing divine wisdom and knowledge and being fully connected to source. And kundalini takes your energy up by the thousands so people who have kundalini make great healers. Which reminds me of an experience where i did some reiki, and I fell into a trance and my hand started doing all these obsurd things - without my purposeful direction, but the people I did it to felt amazing afterwards... but I won't get into that now.. that would be just too much lol.:headbang:

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Originally Posted by veeaye

You're right, I think I must have worked through around 400 fears in two years. As you can see, I've been working hard. Fears have different levels, you can have many fears of rejection, many fears of abandonment, or fears of success, or even resentment. These can emanate from past lives, genetic, childhood, etc. It's huge, really. Most people don't completely get rid of their fears. They just get rid of the strong ones, but the same fears still exist in weaker forms and often they are unaware of them because they are so small they can be well suppressed.

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What I wonder is whether there are that many fears or if the basic fear is just manifesting in different ways. It could be that there is a basic fear underneath all of the bunches of little fears and if you pick off the little ones and not go after the major one, they'll just re-emerge. Kind of reminds me of people who chop down a tree in their yard and don't go after the roots. A short time later you see all these little trees springing up from the roots.

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It's funny you should mention that because I actually realised that I do have more strength than I thought. But the problem was is that I had this deep-setting fear of being judged, so all of my actions and words were guided by this background fear of being judged. I finally came to the conclusion today that I would do whatever the hell I want and would not care what anyone thinks or says. This takes allot of re-asserting yourself as the subconscious mind seems to be designed to want to please others.

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On the one hand, you will be judged and it appears that you have accepted that and decided that the best alternative is to accept it and move on.

On the other hand, that little fear of being judged is one of those little trees springing up on the grass. There is a root to that fear which may have to do with not feeling secure about who you are. It may also have to do with a desire to be accepted. In a sense we all have these fears on some level because we all want to be liked and accepted. I like that you decided to confront the fear and put your thoughts out there anyway. That took guts.

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The pain and suffering comes from not loving yourself and others unconditionally, once you take on that firm belief of unconditional love and acceptance, almost all suffering is gone. But this is a process. Many people claim that they love and accept unconditionally, but actually doing that is one of the most near impossible tasks of being human.

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Acceptance of others the way they are ... that's good. Unconditional love for self and others ... nooooooo. There are times when you shouldn't love yourself, you should kick yourself in the butt and smarten up. :icon_pidu: :whip2:

As you can see I really hate that term "unconditional love" especially when it applies to people and I'll tell you why. Unconditional love is unhealthy. I think there are conditions where someone needs to rethink the love thing and get out of dodge. I think "conditional" love is more mentally and emotionally healthy. With conditional love, you are giving the message that I will love you until you are toxic to me. Then I will cease loving you, I will leave you. Now ** that** is healthy love.

I also think that "unconditional love" cheapens the feeling of love. Love is a special gift that you give someone. It shouldn't be unconditional because that leaves it open to be taken for granted and/or abused.

Just my opinion. :cool:

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I think the reason why I'm sensitive is because I now perceive from more of a soul-level. This means that emotions and words hurt more for me and I am much more sensitive to negative energy. It just takes getting used to and adaption to be able to live harmoniously as someone who is deeply connected to spirit. That seems to be a dangerous thing in this time and place, whereas many thousands of years in the past people were adorned by free flowing positive energy, love, ritual and acceptance. Also what you said about the bio-chemistry is entirely true as well. Both go hand in hand, the 'spirit' has more of a biological influence on people than they know.

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Well I think the main thing is that you are working on yourself and are finding progress in your work. I can't say much about your methods because they are not in line with my belief system - and this doesn't look like one of those "debate" messages so I'm not going to go there. It certainly is interesting to read about what someone is doing and what works and doesn't work.

So does this involve examining beliefs and looking for ones that are not in your best interest?

P.S. Thank you for the kind words. Since our beliefs are different, it's a bit of a challenge to get off my soap box and see what's happening on yours.

Didn't you say that you were not into New Age stuff? What do you classify as New Age. Just curious.

M.

M.

I'd like to apologise to and thank everyone who contributed to this discussion.

I've realised that there has been one group who have responded from the perspective of having "got there" "relatively comfortably", or at least without long term trauma. We're here gloating about how easy it is if you follow instructions. That's great for us to know now! How many times did we screw up before we decided to do it right?

To be clear - I don't mean "didn't do it my way", I mean didn't choose a way and stick to it rigorously for long enough to understand where it was going.

Some pieces of the puzzle have fallen into place. If there's anything I can do to ease the passage for another human being, it is my obligation to give freely and without prejudice or judgement. That is an element of the Oath of the Abyss that has only become evident when the circumstances in life make it meaningful.

Cheers,
Craig

Hi Craig,

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Originally Posted by CraigT

I've realised that there has been one group who have responded from the perspective of having "got there" "relatively comfortably", or at least without long term trauma. We're here gloating about how easy it is if you follow instructions. That's great for us to know now! How many times did we screw up before we decided to do it right?

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Instructions? Damn did I miss that day those were handed out? :BangHead:

I think if it were easy, I wonder how much would really be learned from the experience(s).

Is the Kundalini awakening essentially the same thing that we did with the tree?

M.

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What I wonder is whether there are that many fears or if the basic fear is just manifesting in different ways. It could be that there is a basic fear underneath all of the bunches of little fears and if you pick off the little ones and not go after the major one, they'll just re-emerge. Kind of reminds me of people who chop down a tree in their yard and don't go after the roots. A short time later you see all these little trees springing up from the roots.

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That's a really interesting observation. I'm beginning to think that the only way to get rid of the small fears is just to focus on self esteem.

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On the one hand, you will be judged and it appears that you have accepted that and decided that the best alternative is to accept it and move on.

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That's true, you are completely right. Acceptance is key.

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On the other hand, that little fear of being judged is one of those little trees springing up on the grass. There is a root to that fear which may have to do with not feeling secure about who you are. It may also have to do with a desire to be accepted. In a sense we all have these fears on some level because we all want to be liked and accepted. I like that you decided to confront the fear and put your thoughts out there anyway. That took guts.

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I'm sick of living life by fear. Yes we live in a society that is opiniative and judgemental but why should we let that limit ourselves? As long as what we do is legal or relatively legal, i don't see the dillemma.

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Acceptance of others the way they are ... that's good. Unconditional love for self and others ... nooooooo. There are times when you shouldn't love yourself, you should kick yourself in the butt and smarten up. :icon_pidu: :whip2:

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You are totally right, and I can't beleive I didn't see that before. You totally oppenned my eyes on this subject. Conditional love.. but to what extent? I think the conditions that you will love only if there is no real toxicity in the relationship is intelligent, but whatabout people who generally don't please you? Maybe your right, maybe there is a place to loathe yourself a little, so you make better choices in the future. I know that if I didn't feel a bit insecure for example, I wouldn't be so determined to improve my appearance and other facets of me. Maybe having too much acceptance is not a good thing, perhaps you are right and there needs to be a balance. wow.

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As you can see I really hate that term "unconditional love" especially when it applies to people and I'll tell you why. Unconditional love is unhealthy. I think there are conditions where someone needs to rethink the love thing and get out of dodge. I think "conditional" love is more mentally and emotionally healthy. With conditional love, you are giving the message that I will love you until you are toxic to me. Then I will cease loving you, I will leave you. Now ** that** is healthy love.

I also think that "unconditional love" cheapens the feeling of love. Love is a special gift that you give someone. It shouldn't be unconditional because that leaves it open to be taken for granted and/or abused.

Just my opinion. :cool:

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Wow you have really oppenned my eyes to thing's which were right before me, but I didn't see them. Unconditional love = self sacrifice = too much pain and suffering because of others. Hmmm is that wise, intelligent or progressive for evolution? Very clever observation.

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Well I think the main thing is that you are working on yourself and are finding progress in your work. I can't say much about your methods because they are not in line with my belief system - and this doesn't look like one of those "debate" messages so I'm not going to go there. It certainly is interesting to read about what someone is doing and what works and doesn't work.

So does this involve examining beliefs and looking for ones that are not in your best interest?

P.S. Thank you for the kind words. Since our beliefs are different, it's a bit of a challenge to get off my soap box and see what's happening on yours.

Didn't you say that you were not into New Age stuff? What do you classify as New Age. Just curious.

M.

M.

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I like it when you express yourself in a positive manner. What Im doing does work for me, maybe everybody is different. It appears that you adjust yourself and improve yourself often and that works. Everybody is different, no matter what you do, I realised we have to also come to conscious conclusions and not just purely work on an unconcsious level. I guess it's a process of trial and error for everyone.

New age stuff? I can't comment on that because I beleive there are new age sources of information out there which have no real use in the real world, but there are also some that arent. Most information is rubbish, but some of it is good and useful. I have sources from all over the internet, I have hundreds of websites in my favourates which are valuable sources of information. From everything from energy & magick, to feng shui, to law of attraction, to crystals. But Ive also come accross much filth and have disregarded them. It's easy to get caught on filth in the real world. That's why people come to conslusions such as 'there is no such thng as kundalini' because they get their information from false or amatuer sources and conlude it as fact. I beleive that if at first we dont succeed try again, because you can literely accomplish anything with a persistent attitude.

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Originally Posted by veeaye

That's a really interesting observation. I'm beginning to think that the only way to get rid of the small fears is just to focus on self esteem.

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What's behind the fear? What's the positive intent of the fear? The fear is a protection mechanism. Is the fear valid or is the fear out of date (something that may have been formed when you were a child and not capable, as you are now, of dealing with an issue).

Do you have a plan on how to focus on self esteem or would you like some suggestions?

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I'm sick of living life by fear. Yes we live in a society that is opinionative and judgemental but why should we let that limit ourselves? As long as what we do is legal or relatively legal, i don't see the dilemma.

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I started thinking about the concept of "judgement" and found it an interesting perspective. Judgement is only meaningful to the person who is doing the judging and how much we value that person's view.

A judgement is really just information (feedback) on someone else's perception of something. You are the judge of whether that information is useful to you or not. Remove the emotion from the judgement and look at it for exactly what it is --- information.

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You are totally right, and I can't believe I didn't see that before. You totally opened my eyes on this subject.

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:eusa_dance: That's my happy dance from being able to come up with something helpful. LOL it's a residual effect from my work on the Tree where I had to spend a month pondering on various concepts.

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Conditional love.. but to what extent? I think the conditions that you will love only if there is no real toxicity in the relationship is intelligent, but what about people who generally don't please you?

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The conditions are up to you. You are the one to decide what is toxic for you and what is not. It's going to be different for everyone.

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Maybe your right, maybe there is a place to loathe yourself a little, so you make better choices in the future.

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A little but not enough to immobilize you. Enough pain to avoid repeating the act and enough foresight to learn from the experience and move on.

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I know that if I didn't feel a bit insecure for example, I wouldn't be so determined to improve my appearance and other facets of me. Maybe having too much acceptance is not a good thing, perhaps you are right and there needs to be a balance. wow.

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Confidence is more attractive than physical beauty. You can take someone who is ordinary looking and if they act with confidence, they will be perceived as more attractive.

I think looking after your appearance has more to do with self-esteem (in a positive way) than with insecurity. It feels good when we know we look good.

Appearance is also a good tool to have. There is power in looking good. Sure it's superficial but that is the way this world works.

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Wow you have really opened my eyes to thing's which were right before me, but I didn't see them. Unconditional love = self sacrifice = too much pain and suffering because of others. Hmmm is that wise, intelligent or progressive for evolution? Very clever observation.

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Blush ... wait ... let me bask in this sunshine for a bit. :glasses9: Ah that felt good. Thanks.

Okay back to reality. That is the beauty of discussing things with others - different perceptions can sometimes trigger realizations. These 'ah ha" moments can spring from the oddest sources and sometimes accidentally.

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I like it when you express yourself in a positive manner. What I'm doing does work for me, maybe everybody is different. It appears that you adjust yourself and improve yourself often and that works.

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Well kudos to you for letting me know that my approach wasn't working for you. Kudos to me for being willing to adapt. :cheers:

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Everybody is different, no matter what you do, I realised we have to also come to conscious conclusions and not just purely work on an unconscious level. I guess it's a process of trial and error for everyone.

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That's a good one because the conscious is what provides instruction to the unconscious as to what to believe. The conscious is the "thinking" self, the reasoning self - the unconscious pretty much just takes orders and provides back up.

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New age stuff? I can't comment on that because I believe there are new age sources of information out there which have no real use in the real world, but there are also some that aren't. Most information is rubbish, but some of it is good and useful.

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I'm making an effort to work on my attitude towards New Age stuff. I find myself getting annoyed with it when I think it would be better to be amused or indifferent. I think I suffer from a bit of magickal snobbery which in itself is pretty funny because the atheist side of me says, "What, your (de)illusions are more valid then their (de)illusions?" Doh!

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I believe that if at first we don't succeed try again, because you can literary accomplish anything with a persistent attitude.

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Oh, I'd like to add to that. If you first don't succeed try again but change something because there is no point in repeating the same thing and get the same results over and over and over. :BangHead:

M.

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What's behind the fear? What's the positive intent of the fear? The fear is a protection mechanism. Is the fear valid or is the fear out of date (something that may have been formed when you were a child and not capable, as you are now, of dealing with an issue).

Do you have a plan on how to focus on self esteem or would you like some suggestions?

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I think got the self esteem covered. It's mostly just to do with childhood/early life experiences. The smallest thing's, or thing's which appear to be insignificant events seem to have an impact on the sub-concsious and effect your level of self esteem.

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I started thinking about the concept of "judgement" and found it an interesting perspective. Judgement is only meaningful to the person who is doing the judging and how much we value that person's view.

A judgement is really just information (feedback) on someone else's perception of something. You are the judge of whether that information is useful to you or not. Remove the emotion from the judgement and look at it for exactly what it is --- information.

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You're exactly right. So why do we fear being judged, when all it is, is someone elses opinion of us? Beat's me! The sub-concsious can be cruel at times. I have realised just today that if someone is feeling insecure they may view my contructive critisicm as being harsh. But when I truly feel it's being helpful and they are just taking it the wrong way, I don't allow myself to be afraid of them changeing how they feel about me. I suppose that's why people of varying degrees of self esteem tend not to mix so well.

I'll try to be less up front in the future but I learned some people who have lower self esteem require everything to be sugar coated and overly supportive to the extreme. I just told a friend that she needs to be more self assured than to look towards me for advice, and I felt a sense of anger and dissapointment from her - though she has a right to be because I used to look towards her for advice in the past, not that she was much helpful - I just thought it would be helpful to let her know that she shouldn't be overly dependant on another persons views - that's not wrong is it?

I guess we have to adjust, so we get the message accross whilst not coming on too strong, and if we do sound harsh, not to worry too much about their reaction. After all, we are doing our best.

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:eusa_dance: That's my happy dance from being able to come up with something helpful. LOL it's a residual effect from my work on the Tree where I had to spend a month pondering on various concepts.

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You are too funny.

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The conditions are up to you. You are the one to decide what is toxic for you and what is not. It's going to be different for everyone.

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Yes but too conditional and you won't get nuthin'.

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A little but not enough to immobilize you. Enough pain to avoid repeating the act and enough foresight to learn from the experience and move on.

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You're right, that perfect balance. Would that require the use of the ego? Or can just the personality have a brief episode of anger on it's own?

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Confidence is more attractive than physical beauty. You can take someone who is ordinary looking and if they act with confidence, they will be perceived as more attractive.

I think looking after your appearance has more to do with self-esteem (in a positive way) than with insecurity. It feels good when we know we look good.

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I think it's funny you say that because I have delved allot in plastic surgery. But I can't see myself touching it in the next life. I suppose that since im building up my self esteem now, it will benefit me far far in the future and when you have high self esteem, you don't usually go to such drastic measures unless you need to.

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Appearance is also a good tool to have. There is power in looking good. Sure it's superficial but that is the way this world works.

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Some people are superficial and will only want to be approached by someone they feel attractive and vice versa. However your right, confidence is alluring and attractive to everyone; it could probably even bypass their ego mechanisms.

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Blush ... wait ... let me bask in this sunshine for a bit. :glasses9: Ah that felt good. Thanks.

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You deserve it, you're really good at what you do and you have a sound knowledge on thing's. I don't blame you for being skeptical of the metaphysical - that's called being smart. Especially that most thing's of a metaphysical nature are pure b.s.

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Okay back to reality. That is the beauty of discussing things with others - different perceptions can sometimes trigger realizations. These 'ah ha" moments can spring from the oddest sources and sometimes accidentally.

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You're right, everything matters, everything makes its mark. I'm like a sponge in this point in my life, absorbing information.

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Well kudos to you for letting me know that my approach wasn't working for you. Kudos to me for being willing to adapt. :cheers:

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Yeah it works better when your nice, because it builds rapport, but being too 'out there' can sometimes make a person feel intimidated or disliked. That being said, I know it can be hard to get to the point without sounding offensive.

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That's a good one because the conscious is what provides instruction to the unconscious as to what to believe. The conscious is the "thinking" self, the reasoning self - the unconscious pretty much just takes orders and provides back up.

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In re-programming, they work beautifully together. I guess that's where inquiry, 'aha' and evaluating, comes in handy.

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I'm making an effort to work on my attitude towards New Age stuff. I find myself getting annoyed with it when I think it would be better to be amused or indifferent. I think I suffer from a bit of magickal snobbery which in itself is pretty funny because the atheist side of me says, "What, your (de)illusions are more valid then their (de)illusions?" Doh!

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I appreciate your view on new age 'stuff'. Because it shows that you are an intelligent person who is well grounded and doesn't take a limb on something you can't prove. But the experiences I have, as normal and real as they are to me. Are rarely felt and experienced by others, so there is no real way of proving it - like there would be no way of introducing colour to a blind man. You can say that I have a bit more 'colour' to my life. Only because I asked for it and beleived it could happen. For some people it never happen's. I guess I found the right sources of information. This doesn't mean that my life is tons more richer because of it. It just mean's that this is a subject I am interested in and 'know' is real, so therefore if it is real in my eyes - and I persue it, then it must manifest itself to me, which it has. I truly beleive there is much much more to life than we can see. We only see a small portion of it. How much of reality is perceptional?

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Oh, I'd like to add to that. If you first don't succeed try again but change something because there is no point in repeating the same thing and get the same results over and over and over. :BangHead:

M.

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Yupp.. I came up with this wonderful process where I wrote down mistakes I made in the past and how I could change those actions to result in better outcomes. By visualising that when I am, perhaps on procyon, Im sure could prevent myself from making those mistakes in the future, next lifetimes or even maybe programme my mind into beleiving that's what actually happenned - which is unlikely because when it comes to memories, my mind is extremely vivid in detail which is likely why I suffered more trauma than my siblings. I tend to have razor sharp photograph like memory.

Do you do visualisation techniques while on Procyon? It's amazing how many people don't know how fantastic procyon is. I think this sort of thing is a taste of the future and what's to come. It's one of the greatest devices for self improvement, brain development and integration.:eusa_clap:

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Originally Posted by CraigT

I'd like to apologise to and thank everyone who contributed to this discussion.

I've realised that there has been one group who have responded from the perspective of having "got there" "relatively comfortably", or at least without long term trauma. We're here gloating about how easy it is if you follow instructions. That's great for us to know now! How many times did we screw up before we decided to do it right?

To be clear - I don't mean "didn't do it my way", I mean didn't choose a way and stick to it rigorously for long enough to understand where it was going.

Some pieces of the puzzle have fallen into place. If there's anything I can do to ease the passage for another human being, it is my obligation to give freely and without prejudice or judgement. That is an element of the Oath of the Abyss that has only become evident when the circumstances in life make it meaningful.

Cheers,
Craig

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I definately think there are easier way's of going through the kundalini process. But I was unwilling to be patient and wait for results, so i overdid my meditations which brought more energy and attention to my ego. It's probably advantagious to work on releasing the ego before you delve into kundalini. I feel that the ego is the worlds greatest enemy and that we can still suffer the positive effects of negative emotion whilst having no ego, only it would be breif and constructive, rather than long and restrictive.

I also want to mention that over the last few day's I have gone through a pronounced change, or leap. Accompanied by extreme heat, inner tension and sickness. Much of my ego has 'burst' out of me. I had felt a shaking feeling as I woke up this morning. I feel a strong sense of releif from the ego. I'm going to go out on a limb here and claim that I have communicated with the god 'Dionysus', he is wanting to help me and work with me for a while. he is extremely loving, when I feel him around I feel his love piercing into me. I have met him on the astral. he looks very much like he was sculpted.

:hello2:

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Originally Posted by veeaye

You're exactly right. So why do we fear being judged, when all it is, is someone else's opinion of us?

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Because as emotional creatures, we are not always logical. The emotional aspect is that we desire to be liked and accepted. The logic comes in and tells us when or whether this desire is appropriate.

It becomes complicated when we have to navigate social or societal norms. It's a balance between expressing your individuality and behaving in an acceptable way (to society).

There is no right or wrong, it comes down to a decision about what outcome you want to achieve. If you express your individuality around conservative people, you will get a different outcome (likely rejection) than if you expressed your individuality around more liberal people.

Again - how you are judged depends upon who is judging you. And, sometimes someone else's opinion matters - especially if you want them to like you.

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The sub-conscious can be cruel at times.

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Not deliberately. :)

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I have realised just today that if someone is feeling insecure they may view my constructive criticism as being harsh. But when I truly feel it's being helpful and they are just taking it the wrong way, I don't allow myself to be afraid of them changing how they feel about me. I suppose that's why people of varying degrees of self esteem tend not to mix so well.

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It's true that people with low self-esteem are hyper sensitive and have a tendency to perceive things in a negative way. If you don't care if you piss them off, then you don't have to think carefully about your words, tone of voice etc. If you want to be helpful to them, then you may want to choose a different approach.

Let's face it, "constructive criticism" is rarely constructive to the person receiving the criticism. The only "constructive" perspective is your positive intent in helping the person. The criticism itself is ... well criticism (a critical judgment).

If your desired outcome is to be helpful, then you may want to choose a different route - for example - telling them how they would benefit from doing something differently rather than telling them what they are doing wrong. It's more indirect but it may be better received.

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I'll try to be less up front in the future but I learned some people who have lower self esteem require everything to be sugar coated and overly supportive to the extreme.

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It depends on who you are talking to. I don't think it's necessary to "sugar coat" your communication with insecure people. I think it's enough to just change the tone from negative to positive.

I've come across some people that you could say "hello" to and they'd take that as a insult. For those people, after a few tries, I usually just walk away because I figure that they are either just crazy or manipulative - either way, I don't want to deal with them so problem solved. ;)

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I just told a friend that she needs to be more self assured than to look towards me for advice, and I felt a sense of anger and disappointment from her - though she has a right to be because I used to look towards her for advice in the past, not that she was much helpful - I just thought it would be helpful to let her know that she shouldn't be overly dependant on another persons views - that's not wrong is it?

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Your intent was fine, she just may have misinterpreted the meaning. Next, you don't know if this is how she felt - you are essentially guessing and guessing at what part of the message she reacted to. If you want to know for sure - ask her.

What I've done in the past to help someone break the habit of depending on my advice is to ask them: "So what are you going to do about this?" or "So what are your options" or "What do you feel like doing?" Any of those questions puts the ball back into their court and also empowers them to think for themselves without them feeling "cut off" or "slighted". Maybe this kind of approach would work better with your friend?

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I guess we have to adjust, so we get the message across whilst not coming on too strong,

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Exactly

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and if we do sound harsh, not to worry too much about their reaction. After all, we are doing our best.

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Maybe ... maybe not. It doesn't matter if we are doing our best. What really matters is the outcome we receive. If you are okay with the outcome, then mission accomplished. If you are not happy with the outcome - you have other options (change it, learn from it, accept it).

Sometimes the real desired outcome is not what you thought it would be. For example: A person is around you who is heavily dependent on you for emotional support and you are starting to feel like they are sucking the energy out of you. So you are short with them - they get pissed off and go away. When you were short with them, you just wanted them to stop the behavior but unconsciously, you really wanted them to go away because you didn't want to deal with them any more. In that case, once you are aware of what your "true will" is telling you - you are in a better position to decide whether you want to repair any damage caused or just keep on walkin'.

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You are too funny.

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Ya, I'm a legend in my own mind. :D

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Yes but too conditional and you won't get nuthin'

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Oh you get sumthin' ... you get a fight. :boxing:

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You're right, that perfect balance. Would that require the use of the ego? Or can just the personality have a brief episode of anger on it's own?

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The ego motivates you. Anger could be the result of ego not getting what it wants. Anything that you think or do that has to do with self is going to involve ego. Some ego is good ... too much ego ... not so good.

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I think it's funny you say that because I have delved allot in plastic surgery. But I can't see myself touching it in the next life. I suppose that since I'm building up my self esteem now, it will benefit me far far in the future and when you have high self esteem, you don't usually go to such drastic measures unless you need to.

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There is nothing wrong with a bit of plastic surgery if you can afford it and if it makes you feel better about yourself. It's not a lot different than someone wearing make up or getting their hair dyed. I think the key is "moderation". Some people go to extremes and then it becomes a mental problem.

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Some people are superficial and will only want to be approached by someone they feel attractive and vice versa. However your right, confidence is alluring and attractive to everyone; it could probably even bypass their ego mechanisms.

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Ya, you may not want to choose those people as friends but you may have to deal with them at work etc.

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I appreciate your view on new age 'stuff'. Because it shows that you are an intelligent person who is well grounded and doesn't take a limb on something you can't prove. But the experiences I have, as normal and real as they are to me. Are rarely felt and experienced by others, so there is no real way of proving it - like there would be no way of introducing colour to a blind man. You can say that I have a bit more 'colour' to my life. Only because I asked for it and believed it could happen. For some people it never happens. I guess I found the right sources of information. This doesn't mean that my life is tons more richer because of it.

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Hey, it's where you are at. Whether you stay there or not ... only time will tell. ;) I've seen and experienced my fair share of strange only now, I look at things from a different perspective. It's not better or worse ... it's just different.

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It just means that this is a subject I am interested in and 'know' is real, so therefore if it is real in my eyes - and I pursue it, then it must manifest itself to me, which it has. I truly believe there is much much more to life than we can see. We only see a small portion of it. How much of reality is perceptional?

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I would have to say that 100% of **our** reality is perceptual ... that doesn't mean that 100% of reality is perceptual (only how we interpret it).

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I tend to have razor sharp photograph like memory.

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That can be useful for NLP change work. In case you haven't come across this before ... you can take the emotion out of a bad memory by changing the picture from color to black and white and by making the picture smaller. If you are good at visualization, you can do lots of change work with those pictures in a much easier way than by traditional methods.

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Do you do visualisation techniques while on Procyon?

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Not really anything beyond creating patterns in the lights.

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It's amazing how many people don't know how fantastic Procyon is. I think this sort of thing is a taste of the future and what's to come. It's one of the greatest devices for self improvement, brain development and integration.:eusa_clap:

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I agree.

M.

Congrats, Veeaye, on a spectacular turnaround of a situation that wasn't looking too flash! Your willingness to consider your experience in different lights brought you through.

Best you take some time to reflect on all of this and consolidate your own truth, along with that you acquire from your "angel". Don't let anyone try to discuss your truth or understanding to death.

LLL
Craig

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Originally Posted by veeaye

Okay first of all this 'lengthy' sacred process of kundalin is all bs. Awakenning your kundalini is as easy as walking to the park. You just have to use proper ancient egyptian meditations and chanting god names heavily. The ones I used came from www.joyofsatan.org and worked very well.

I awakenned my kundalini after 3 weeks of meditating.

However...

This was a very big mistake. Because I suffered a great deal with heat exhaustion, fevers, night sweats, physchitzofrania, paranoia, depression, fear paralysis, pain, you name it. So you must never awaken kundalini unless you are very prepared for it mentally and physically and have already done allot of healing.

At the moment I am using session 33, 38 and 48 to build up my pre-frontal lobes so I can deal with the higher energy uptake. The pain is associated with past life, genetic and childhood trauma that lies dormant. The procyon system, as it is directly tied to the eyes, helps one to see the truth and thus move on. Kundalini does not open you up to awareness. It forces all the bad shit painfully to the surface for you to deal with, takes your vibration up incredibly high and allows you to channel much more source energy to meet your needs, its also a pre-requisite for using the rest of our brains, harnessing 'super natural' powers and being able to completely open yourself up to the etheric realms.

Awareness is the most important thing in all of existence, and it comes from procyon, brain entrainment and doing work with your crown chakra. Awareness is the most important thing, because once you are aware of what is holding you back and what you are doing to make your life harder, you can now work to release it. Procyon, isochronic tones and binaural beats are some of the most powerful forms of awareness increasing tools, they are the greatest asset you can ever invest in. When you don't have awareness you repeat mistakes, hence human nature.

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what kind of meditations?
And are you a satanist or what :icon_rolleyes:

Yeah, I don't particularly think is a very good thread to be discussing kundalini... Things kind of took a 'left' turn here.... Far too many side issues to distract from the topic.

However, I do appreciate the helpful and reasonable stance that was taken here and the descriptions of the transformations that accompany the kundalini experience...

Still I hope that Andy will reconsider and not force this whole subject into this particular 'mess' of a thread.

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Originally Posted by neuroasis

Yeah, I don't particularly think is a very good thread to be discussing kundalini... Things kind of took a 'left' turn here.... Far too many side issues to distract from the topic.

However, I do appreciate the helpful and reasonable stance that was taken here and the descriptions of the transformations that accompany the kundalini experience...

Still I hope that Andy will reconsider and not force this whole subject into this particular 'mess' of a thread.

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I'm not sure why you can't add to this thread, especially if the conversation you have in mind is related to the subject of Kundalini? I think that if someone is interested in reading a variety of positions on the subject, having it all in one place (one thread) is good. Less confusing.

Perhaps I'm not understanding how you think the conversation took a left turn? In the end, if it's something you feel strongly about, then let's think of a way to resolve this so you can post comfortably. Perhaps the solution is to start a different thread - with a different title that makes your thread stand apart from this one. I'll check with Andy and maybe we can change the title of this thread? Your contributions here are valued and I don't want a small matter such as this to stand in your way. :)

The way I see it is that the thread is about an emotional experience that resulted from the process the person undertook as a result of their method of kundalini awakening. There are many different "traditions" that use a process related to this as a form of spiritual or personal growth - hence some of Craig's and my comments.

There are lots of potential outcomes of Altered States of Consciousness (ASC) and sometimes the outcome creates mental or emotional obstacles. The Theta state is great for this kind of work but theta is notorious for unlocking and bringing to the surface memories, feelings and confusion. I think it's helpful for someone to be aware that this can happen and also have a place to go to understand what is happening.


M.

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Originally Posted by makar

what kind of meditations?
And are you a satanist or what :icon_rolleyes:

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It doesn't matter if the person was a satanist or not. What matters is the experience on the subject. Think about this: Kitty heaven = mousy hell. It's all perception.

M.

My god.

All I can say is I am rather shocked.

I have come a long way with my healing that it is hard to believe some of the thing's I have written on my previous posts.

I do feel that after some time when you wash away the intensity of trauma your mind becomes clearer and more peaceful.

It's amazing and shocking how the unconscious mind can play chasey with your thought's.

In regards to Satanism. Really spirituality is a broad subject and can be put in many contexts. Spiritual Satanism is one path that you can take, especially if you have an aggressive outlook on life. But the ultimate goal is to release the conditioning and trauma and have a sensible approach to life. There are many avenues to this. From Krishna, to Buddhism, kinesiology, transcendental meditation, brain entrainment, etc.

I guess whatever gets you to where you need to be.

These day's I am very open to the views and opinions of others, without being vulnerable to misinformation. In the past I was affected by fear, fear of others, fear of myself, fear in general.

That would be the ultimate aim in life, to release ourselves from a state of pain and fear and needing, into a state of knowledge and love and sharing. Which all takes time.

I take a slightly different position in regards to grouping items having navigated through hundreds of online forums. Most forums seem to suffer from threads that go way off the original topic and people that are looking for a specific bit of information have to weed through pages of irrelevant responses to follow the conversation.

I think smaller threads and more of them that are well categorized and available by search are better. When things get too far off topic, then moderators move these side discussions to new threads.

That is just my opinion and really it means nothing.

This conversation took place with a specific set of people around a topic that introduced a lot of room for disagreement and debate... all unrelated to kundalini except for the fact that it was the original impetus for the conversation and gave a good look into some of the possible outcomes of the experience.

It was handled well by all parties ultimately don't get me wrong.

I see that veeaye is a very self-observant and sincere individual and on a spiritual path. What more can you ask of a person really?

The thing that is of concern was the distracting factor of the hot button topic of Satanism. Not the ideology per se as in Western mystery traditions 'left' and 'right' hand paths are but different journeys up the tree. However, the connotations present in most people's minds do not foster reasonable discussion. And it is not what we are talking about... kundalini is what we are talking about.

I have no interest to debate the merits or viewpoints of, nor disregard, any particular spiritual way. Kundalini Yoga and Tantric traditions have a long history completely removed from the Western ideas of deity. They manifest as practices or 'paths of action'.

We can see that when makar was directed to this thread from his newer post he(she?) immediately focused entirely on the Satanist thing. And in each subsequent response what are we talking about? Not kundalini.

It is worth mentioning that the meditation that was being discussed was actually a 'Merkabah' meditation that has its roots in Lurianic Jewish Kabbalah but was marketed by 'new age' gurus such as Drunvalo Melchizedek. So see even this has nothing in particular to do with Satanism or historic kundalini practice besides as a 'path of action'.

Personally, I prefer the sentiment set forth in the statement: 'The methods of science, the aim of religion'.

I think AVS machines stand firmly and helpfully within this context.

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Originally Posted by neuroasis

I take a slightly different position in regards to grouping items having navigated through hundreds of online forums. Most forums seem to suffer from threads that go way off the original topic and people that are looking for a specific bit of information have to weed through pages of irrelevant responses to follow the conversation.

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LOL Now we are definitely off-topic. The opinions of our members is important and I think that this should be discussed in a new thread. I'll ask Andy to set that up.

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That is just my opinion and really it means nothing.

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You are a member of this forum and your opinion is valid and worth considering.

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This conversation took place with a specific set of people around a topic that introduced a lot of room for disagreement and debate... all unrelated to kundalini except for the fact that it was the original impetus for the conversation and gave a good look into some of the possible outcomes of the experience.

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Debate - oh don't get me excited. :banana: I think a good traditional styled debate would be fun. I say "traditional" because there would be rules to keep it from degenerating into something less enlightening ... more like flames and BBQ. C'mon let's do it!

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It was handled well by all parties ultimately don't get me wrong.

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:)

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I see that veeaye is a very self-observant and sincere individual and on a spiritual path. What more can you ask of a person really?

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Veeaye's willingness to discuss his experience presented us with a unique opportunity to discuss a matter that is rarely discussed - the other side of mind work.

There is a lot of hype on "attaining higher levels of consciousness", enlightenment etc. and this all leads the candidate to believe that the process is simple and that change can occur without sweat and tears. Often people engage in these practices and achieve an altered state of consciousness and then crash when it doesn't hold or something else in the mind comes to surface and creates some problems.

It's not a topic specific to kundalini and so we could move this particular subject to another thread.

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The thing that is of concern was the distracting factor of the hot button topic of Satanism. Not the ideology per se as in Western mystery traditions 'left' and 'right' hand paths are but different journeys up the tree. However, the connotations present in most people's minds do not foster reasonable discussion. And it is not what we are talking about... kundalini is what we are talking about.

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Ya but that gave you the opportunity to clarify something that is often misunderstood.

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I have no interest to debate the merits or viewpoints of, nor disregard, any particular spiritual way. Kundalini Yoga and Tantric traditions have a long history completely removed from the Western ideas of deity. They manifest as practices or 'paths of action'.

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I don't know, having that discussion with an atheist (who has a background in related things) may be quite interesting. :eusa_think:

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We can see that when makar was directed to this thread from his newer post he(she?) immediately focused entirely on the Satanist thing. And in each subsequent response what are we talking about? Not kundalini.

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I saw it as an opportunity. Makar is looking for something and it doesn't matter what caught his/her eye, what matters is what comes of it. It's an opportunity for you or someone else to explain the difference between Satanism and Kundalini awakening. My knowledge on these two subjects is basic and any distinction between the two things doesn't really matter to me so I'm not the best person to do this ... however ... it seems to have triggered something in you so .... maybe you are the one to do something about this. :eusa_think:

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It is worth mentioning that the meditation that was being discussed was actually a 'Merkabah' meditation that has its roots in Lurianic Jewish Kabbalah but was marketed by 'new age' gurus such as Drunvalo Melchizedek. So see even this has nothing in particular to do with Satanism or historic kundalini practice besides as a 'path of action'.

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See, that's interesting. I recall studying the Merkabah (Jewish Mystic version not new age) years ago. Thinking about the Merkabah meditations and Kundalini practice - can you see a common denominator in the two? The practices may be different but think about the outcome?

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Personally, I prefer the sentiment set forth in the statement: 'The methods of science, the aim of religion'.

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Wasn't that from our friend Crowley?

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I think AVS machines stand firmly and helpfully within this context.

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Agreed.

M.

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Originally Posted by Marisa

LOL Now we are definitely off-topic. The opinions of our members is important and I think that this should be discussed in a new thread. I'll ask Andy to set that up.

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Agreed. It is entirely up to Andy and yourself in the end but I do have opinions and skills in this area.

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Originally Posted by Marisa

You are a member of this forum and your opinion is valid and worth considering.

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Thank you. Openness to input is crucial to long term participation from all members. :icescream:

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Originally Posted by Marisa

Debate - oh don't get me excited. :banana: I think a good traditional styled debate would be fun. I say "traditional" because there would be rules to keep it from degenerating into something less enlightening ... more like flames and BBQ. C'mon let's do it!

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Debate is fine but in a strict sense the parties must be well-matched, have a common vocabulary, a framework for discussion, and a published set of rules to abide by. Otherwise I have found that it quickly devolves and really it is just an intellectual exercise often disguising thinly masked grandstanding. :director:

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Originally Posted by Marisa

Veeaye's willingness to discuss his experience presented us with a unique opportunity to discuss a matter that is rarely discussed - the other side of mind work.

There is a lot of hype on "attaining higher levels of consciousness", enlightenment etc. and this all leads the candidate to believe that the process is simple and that change can occur without sweat and tears. Often people engage in these practices and achieve an altered state of consciousness and then crash when it doesn't hold or something else in the mind comes to surface and creates some problems.

It's not a topic specific to kundalini and so we could move this particular subject to another thread.

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Yes, excellent observation and approach. This thread has a lot to offer in that regard. And you are correct, nothing comes without effort and hurdles. The realms of the subconscious are treacherous and few finish what they start. :read:

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Originally Posted by Marisa

I saw it as an opportunity. Makar is looking for something and it doesn't matter what caught his/her eye, what matters is what comes of it. It's an opportunity for you or someone else to explain the difference between Satanism and Kundalini awakening. My knowledge on these two subjects is basic and any distinction between the two things doesn't really matter to me so I'm not the best person to do this ... however ... it seems to have triggered something in you so .... maybe you are the one to do something about this. :eusa_think:

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Maybe so. It is just that kundalini energy is a difficult concept on its own. When you take the imagery of the fire serpent and sexual energy and the risk of physical and emotional disturbances....
then mix in radically unrelated concepts (from a historical standpoint) such as Satanism (and by that do we mean LaVey, Aquino, Nightside, Shadow Work, Qliphothic or just anything that is not Christian?)...
you are creating a powder keg :cussing:


Here's the thing... I have no bones to pick nor I do I feel the need to proselytize.

I am well-versed and can field questions in the Western Mystery Traditions and Esoteric Eastern practices. I also have knowledge in NLP, Hypnosis (stage and clinical), most branches of Psychology with an emphasis on Jungian (besides modern pharmacology based), Popular Science, Ethnobotanicals, Archaeology, Technology, and Physiology.

My knowledge on these subjects has been filtered through a Western mindset as English is my native language. My library is immense and I draw from both academic and mystical sources.

In the course of discussion these fields all play a role in the formation of ideas. However, as stated I am not keen on pushing a particular point of view nor do I have one billionth of the knowledge of some people or which I hope to someday achieve.

I want to learn as well as teach.

But if someone has a question or I can contribute in some way then I am more than willing.

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Originally Posted by neuroasis

Maybe so. It is just that kundalini energy is a difficult concept on its own. When you take the imagery of the fire serpent and sexual energy and the risk of physical and emotional disturbances....
then mix in radically unrelated concepts (from a historical standpoint) such as Satanism (and by that do we mean LaVey, Aquino, Nightside, Shadow Work, Qliphothic or just anything that is not Christian?)...
you are creating a powder keg :cussing:

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Perhaps the exercise itself is not related to what creates the problem. I think the problem stems from the emotional state of the person undertaking the exercise, including the reason they are doing this in the first place as well as their expectations on the outcome.

.... comments ... anyone .... Bueller ...?


M.

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Originally Posted by veeaye

My god.

All I can say is I am rather shocked.

I have come a long way with my healing that it is hard to believe some of the thing's I have written on my previous posts.

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It sounds like you have come a long way since.

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I do feel that after some time when you wash away the intensity of trauma your mind becomes clearer and more peaceful.

It's amazing and shocking how the unconscious mind can play chasey with your thought's.

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Unconscious and conscious. Your conscious mind tells the u/c what to believe.

Beliefs are a very powerful thing and I think the thing that is often misunderstood is the point that - just because we believe it, doesn't mean it's real or true.

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In regards to Satanism. Really spirituality is a broad subject and can be put in many contexts. Spiritual Satanism is one path that you can take, especially if you have an aggressive outlook on life. But the ultimate goal is to release the conditioning and trauma and have a sensible approach to life. There are many avenues to this. From Krishna, to Buddhism, kinesiology, transcendental meditation, brain entrainment, etc.

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I like the way you put this. Good point made.

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These day's I am very open to the views and opinions of others, without being vulnerable to misinformation. In the past I was affected by fear, fear of others, fear of myself, fear in general.

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Just to play devil's advocate here (pun maybe intended). :icon_wink: How do you discern information from misinformation?

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That would be the ultimate aim in life, to release ourselves from a state of pain and fear and needing, into a state of knowledge and love and sharing. Which all takes time.

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True. I think the Buddhists have some good ideas on how to do this (in case anyone is wondering).

Thanks for checking in and once again sharing your thoughts about your journey. That takes courage. :headbang:

M.

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Originally Posted by neuroasis

Here's the thing... I have no bones to pick nor I do I feel the need to proselytize.

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I think you are capable of sharing knowledge and opinion without doing this.:icon_wink:

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I am well-versed and can field questions in the Western Mystery Traditions and Esoteric Eastern practices. I also have knowledge in NLP, Hypnosis (stage and clinical), most branches of Psychology with an emphasis on Jungian (besides modern pharmacology based), Popular Science, Ethnobotanicals, Archaeology, Technology, and Physiology.

My knowledge on these subjects has been filtered through a Western mindset as English is my native language. My library is immense and I draw from both academic and mystical sources.

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Oh now you're just scaring us. :) Ha ha poke poke Seriously, I'm glad to have such a good resource on board. :cheers:

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In the course of discussion these fields all play a role in the formation of ideas. However, as stated I am not keen on pushing a particular point of view ...

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I think you are capable of providing information and opinion without being pushy ... :icon_wink:

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nor do I have one billionth of the knowledge of some people or which I hope to someday achieve.

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Okay, so you are not always going to be right. Noted. It's a good sign of your intelligence. :)

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I want to learn as well as teach.

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And the best way to do both of these things is to engage.

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But if someone has a question or I can contribute in some way then I am more than willing.

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Okay, I'm asking you to share your thoughts and knowledge and I think you can contribute by starting some threads of discussion on some of your interests. Share what you know - inspire the questions, comments and discussion.

It's difficult for someone to ask a question when they don't know what they don't know. :hiding:

M.

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Originally Posted by Marisa

Just to play devil's advocate here (pun maybe intended). :icon_wink: How do you discern information from misinformation?

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Good Point. Now you got me thinking....

I guess there is no real way of knowing. I just tend to agree to points that fit into my view of reality based on the knowledge I have acquired, but I guess that also makes me a somewhat faulty human being. It's the best I can do.

I'm really wanting to go through this whole thread again, but it feels like a novel has been written and it feels like too much of an investment to read all the long posts.

One day...

Thanks for your insights Marissa.

Oh and one more thing. I found this amazing affirmations music CD on the internet because I was sick of having modern RnB and pop lyrics recyling in my mind creating an entanglement of randomness and confusion in the u/c.

Quite amazing.

http://www.laderoutemusic.com/Soul_Affirmation_CD.html


And this question just came to mind...
leading onto something else...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marisa

Your conscious mind tells the u/c what to believe.

---

How much control do you think we really have over our unconscious?

How can your conscious mind tell your unconscious mind what to believe when you already have all this crap inside that refuses to beleive?

Like for example when something comes to the surface in me, I know I have no control over it, I can try to suppress it (which I don't do too well), but I can't delete it or ignore it, it comes up and needs to be healed as soon as possible, for the feeling and deep belief to be changed.

Or does it work differently for most people? Do they just manage those internal parts more easily? Do you think it's just harder for people who have experienced a higher amount of abuse? Or that it also has allot to do with the kundalini? I personally beleive so, but I want to hear your opinion.

I found personally healing and managing the u/c problems was about tuning every part of me energetically and mentally to love & acceptance.

And back to the kundalini... I wanted to add... I believe it is a spontaneous process which happens in human beings naturally when they are ready and that many are not even aware of, when occurring. Perhaps I am just more aware of it because I have developed a greater sensitivity to energy from power meditating. (Which makes me wonder how limitless we could be in our mind, body and soul...)

I wonder weather or not we should describe kundalini or even put words to it, because then we can label it and add symptoms to it and create another set of stories to our already cluttered and complicated lives. Or can it be of benefit to open ourselves up to the subject, knowing that it can allow us to activate and understand more of our minds and explore our potential?

Do you think kundalini is just another method of escapism we've created? Do you think it's an important subject worth sharing? Do you think it has any real meaning, sgnificance or importance in the world we live in?

Make sure to add plenty of spaces... my mind gets stuck on blocks of words.. haha.

Thanks,

Vahid.

PS: woah! Don't know why all those subjects and questions suddenly came to mind.. but I'll go with it anyway...:hello2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by veeaye

How much control do you think we really have over our unconscious?

---

Let me answer your question with a question.

How much control do you think we have over our computers?

Most people have only the most basic. They can manage to get the simplest tasks done such as browsing the web, sending emails, and maybe basic word processing.

They can only manipulate the basic functions of the interface in a very limited way but have no idea even the most rudimentary things that are going on under the surface.

This person usually stores everything on the desktop or in one or two simple folders and organizationally the computer is a mess and mostly they keep most everything, afraid to throw some away they might need.

A next level of person learns to interface with other tools. Maybe they can bring in pictures from a digital camera and even edit some of those pictures. They may have learned better organization skills and keep their folders labeled for easier access.

They might know simple security tasks and maintenance like virus scanning, hard drive defragmentation, and deleting unnecessary files.

Still while exercising a little more skill in working with the interface, they mostly have no idea what is going on below and when difficult problems present themselves they are quickly out of depth and may even be a little too confident in exercising the power of deleting files or running the wrong programs and get into even more trouble.

There are many levels above this but at the top level is the power user. The power user is a master of the computer. They understand the inner workings, the routines underlying the user interface, can completely manage and control all the hardware, software and peripherals.

At will, they can use the computer as a source of creativity, commerce, an expander of their vision and intelligence.

Still, even at this level they didn't create the computer or program the operating system by themselves, so the learning curve never stops.

Our unconscious is just a computer in a sense. It runs programs and takes information from the higher level user information, processes that information, acts upon it appropriately, and returns output.

For those who know the rules, the results are predictable and can be optimized.

Even new pieces of better software more suited for a task can be installed.

But what if the computer that you had was ancient and had been programmed by many people over millions of years. What if it was given to you by your parents and they installed a lot of their programs on it and even put in firewalls and security measures to restrict your usage?

In your early stages you didn't know anything about using the computer so you learned from them and others, and trusted that it must be true that this is the way that it works.

Later, you grow and begin to expand your knowledge and you find other ways of doing things. You gain skill in clean up and optimization, you sensibly remove the things you don't need or update to newer versions.

Sometimes you get burned and screw something up. But even that is a lesson and the more fearless you are the greater your final skill and mastery.

Where do you stop on the learning curve? Do you want to be a power user?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by neuroasis

Let me answer your question with a question.

How much control do you think we have over our computers?

Most people have only the most basic. They can manage to get the simplest tasks done such as browsing the web, sending emails, and maybe basic word processing.

They can only manipulate the basic functions of the interface in a very limited way but have no idea even the most rudimentary things that are going on under the surface.

This person usually stores everything on the desktop or in one or two simple folders and organizationally the computer is a mess and mostly they keep most everything, afraid to throw some away they might need.

A next level of person learns to interface with other tools. Maybe they can bring in pictures from a digital camera and even edit some of those pictures. They may have learned better organization skills and keep their folders labeled for easier access.

They might know simple security tasks and maintenance like virus scanning, hard drive defragmentation, and deleting unnecessary files.

Still while exercising a little more skill in working with the interface, they mostly have no idea what is going on below and when difficult problems present themselves they are quickly out of depth and may even be a little too confident in exercising the power of deleting files or running the wrong programs and get into even more trouble.

There are many levels above this but at the top level is the power user. The power user is a master of the computer. They understand the inner workings, the routines underlying the user interface, can completely manage and control all the hardware, software and peripherals.

At will, they can use the computer as a source of creativity, commerce, an expander of their vision and intelligence.

Still, even at this level they didn't create the computer or program the operating system by themselves, so the learning curve never stops.

Our unconscious is just a computer in a sense. It runs programs and takes information from the higher level user information, processes that information, acts upon it appropriately, and returns output.

For those who know the rules, the results are predictable and can be optimized.

Even new pieces of better software more suited for a task can be installed.

But what if the computer that you had was ancient and had been programmed by many people over millions of years. What if it was given to you by your parents and they installed a lot of their programs on it and even put in firewalls and security measures to restrict your usage?

In your early stages you didn't know anything about using the computer so you learned from them and others, and trusted that it must be true that this is the way that it works.

Later, you grow and begin to expand your knowledge and you find other ways of doing things. You gain skill in clean up and optimization, you sensibly remove the things you don't need or update to newer versions.

Sometimes you get burned and screw something up. But even that is a lesson and the more fearless you are the greater your final skill and mastery.

Where do you stop on the learning curve? Do you want to be a power user?

---

That's one of the best explanations I've heard.

Thanks Very much!

I guess there is no limit to how well you can learn to master your computer and update it. Guess it just takes knowledge, practise and experience.

So then let us go one step further and speak of the structure of trauma...

Let's say that on this computer, unbeknown to the user, a virus has been downloaded and taken root deep within the core of the operating system.

This virus is a very stripped down and effective piece of software. It intercepts then translates all input and flips all the necessary bits to turn benign and useful information somewhat against the system itself.

What's more it has managed to realign the security measures of the antivirus scanner and convince that program that the files the virus alters are the correct files and most all of the others are contaminated. Or at least it seems those files are foreign and need to be scanned over and over again until the virus has fully translated them into its 'correct' version.

Although the system appears to function normally, increasingly more and more resources are being used to maintain the virus and keep the scanner from removing it.

I want to shift gears here a bit and introduce the concept of the 'strange attractor'. This is a mathematical model that describes the ordering of complex, chaotic systems. One can find these generated from fractal equations but generally the most common way to understand them is our understanding of a black hole.

Conceptually then we can best understand this virus as a 'strange attractor'. By means of a very strong 'gravitational' pull it draws everything into itself. It is the heart of a massive complex of what from a distance may appear as randomness. However, closer in, a structure starts to reveal itself as this chaos is being ordered by the attractor. The attractor has built a massive network of interconnections and in some way all avenues lead to it.

This sounds rather scary and impossible to overcome does it not?

Do we see that although the effects are wide ranging, the virus is really just a small bit of software in the larger whole. Its function, to attract and translate and masquerade, is insidious, uses the principles of leverage, and is well armored.

Let us realize that, no matter what we argue to the contrary, the system is operating perfectly. The virus is working very effectively according to its programming. The antivirus scanner is busily engaged in its new role to alert the attractor that files need to be processed.

The computer doesn't know or care that its output is causing angst, discomfort or maladaption. It is processing data according to instructions and that is all. (If you doubt that man is a machine then ask yourself why it would allow itself to shutdown at the most inappropriate moment like while driving and crash the car and kill itself.)

The resources of the computer are devoted to maintaining the status quo and although misappropriated are functioning correctly.

So, the virus, the attractor, is the trauma.

The antivirus scanner is the 'censor'. That is, the subdivision of our internal personality structure assigned to 'filter' the inputs from the world and assign other 'agents' to process them.

Now that we know this and we know the mechanism by which it is occurring what shall we do?

We could incorporate the virus into a unique personal configuration that makes our computer work like none other. Scars give character and tell stories.

Or we can attempt to circumvent or remove the virus. Once dismantled, a new, updated properly configured antivirus scanner needs to be installed. The system then will be scanned with this program and all traces of the virus removed and all files restored to their intended state.

This is pretty drastic action even for a computer but what about when we are talking about a person and the depths of their mind and personality structure?

Why do you think they used electroshock therapy? (cruel and inhumane as it is) They needed to overload and short circuit the existing network. In this primitive way they also burned it out in many cases.

What is a healing crisis? What does it mean to be born again?

So now we can begin to talk about kundalini and what it can do and what the dangers are...next time.

I do apologize for these small 'books' I am writing...maybe being concise is not my strong suit.

It doesn't sound crazy at all. I believe I am the attractor and creator of my experience.

With my kinesiologist we have worked to remove thought-forms and thought-virus from the body-mind. One way to do this was to visualise the fear and then imagine a vacuum cleaner sucking it out.

I would always feel pain in that area where the fear was.

After a few years the pain went away, this is the pain I felt most when I forced my chakras open. I felt the energy, the thought-forms.

So what you are saying totally makes sense to me and you have described it in very good analogy.

That is so excellent that you have been working with kinesthesiology. That is the right tool for the job in our current understanding. The EFT and TFT forms with 'tapping' are very powerful tools that can be self-applied. And work with a professional is even more beneficial.
I was planning on getting there eventually in my descriptions but you are already so far down the road. Fantastic!
For the benefit of others I do have further things to contribute. Please share your insights as well. I promise you...I am definitely not a know-it-all.

Sounds like the kinesthesiologist knows some NLP. :eusa_think:

A related method is to imagine your journey line or time line and on that time line at various points are dark spots - the dark spots represent painful, bad or negative memories and/or feelings. You float over the journey line and notice the black spots and that they have some silver sparkles on top of them. You hold both your hands out and begin taking a few deep breaths and with those breaths, the sparkles rise and come toward you - you breath them in. These are all the learnings you can get from the experiences.

What remains is the emotional stuff whose purpose has been nullified by your taking the learnings. Time for that to go. You have a choice, you can vacuum up the dark spots or ride over them with a street cleaner or hose them off your path. You can even set little charges in each of them and blow them up, create a farewell fireworks display.

If you are using the light and sound machine, you would turn it on at this point and all the bursts of color are the negative emotions being blown up and becoming universal fertilizer. The colors you see are the conversion process of negative to positive.

.... oops went on a tangent. :icon_rolleyes: tying this back to a relevant point regarding using the AVS machine with visualization - timing could play a factor in increasing the success of the exercise.

M.

Yes marissa,

Kinesioligists know a whole spectrum of healing modalities, depending on how educated they are. Mine has also done the NLP timeline technique many times and EFT. As well as touch for health, brain integration, EMDR, etc.

I beleive in the power of kinesiology.

hey everyone thanks for your comments.
I found all my answers in "Sahaja Yoga".
Really I feel I'm so lucky and blessed.
I used to be so confused about what to do, how to meditate, how to empower chakras, how to awaken kundalini, how to know God and what not.
I'm so happy now, I can't tell you.
There is so much peace, calmness, joy, bliss, WOW!!
Please dear everyone, visit sahaja yoga.org
I know you all are seekers of truth.
Most importantly it is free of cost, because divine doesn't understand money, and we really can't pay for it.
:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by neuroasis

Let me answer your question with a question.

How much control do you think we have over our computers?

Most people have only the most basic. They can manage to get the simplest tasks done such as browsing the web, sending emails, and maybe basic word processing.

They can only manipulate the basic functions of the interface in a very limited way but have no idea even the most rudimentary things that are going on under the surface.

This person usually stores everything on the desktop or in one or two simple folders and organizationally the computer is a mess and mostly they keep most everything, afraid to throw some away they might need.

A next level of person learns to interface with other tools. Maybe they can bring in pictures from a digital camera and even edit some of those pictures. They may have learned better organization skills and keep their folders labeled for easier access.

They might know simple security tasks and maintenance like virus scanning, hard drive defragmentation, and deleting unnecessary files.

Still while exercising a little more skill in working with the interface, they mostly have no idea what is going on below and when difficult problems present themselves they are quickly out of depth and may even be a little too confident in exercising the power of deleting files or running the wrong programs and get into even more trouble.

There are many levels above this but at the top level is the power user. The power user is a master of the computer. They understand the inner workings, the routines underlying the user interface, can completely manage and control all the hardware, software and peripherals.

At will, they can use the computer as a source of creativity, commerce, an expander of their vision and intelligence.

Still, even at this level they didn't create the computer or program the operating system by themselves, so the learning curve never stops.

Our unconscious is just a computer in a sense. It runs programs and takes information from the higher level user information, processes that information, acts upon it appropriately, and returns output.

For those who know the rules, the results are predictable and can be optimized.

Even new pieces of better software more suited for a task can be installed.

But what if the computer that you had was ancient and had been programmed by many people over millions of years. What if it was given to you by your parents and they installed a lot of their programs on it and even put in firewalls and security measures to restrict your usage?

In your early stages you didn't know anything about using the computer so you learned from them and others, and trusted that it must be true that this is the way that it works.

Later, you grow and begin to expand your knowledge and you find other ways of doing things. You gain skill in clean up and optimization, you sensibly remove the things you don't need or update to newer versions.

Sometimes you get burned and screw something up. But even that is a lesson and the more fearless you are the greater your final skill and mastery.

Where do you stop on the learning curve? Do you want to be a power user?

---

Are you suggesting that rather than focusing on evolving the subconscious mind, we can actually focus on evolving our conscious mind?

I think that's what counselling, psychotherapists, life coaches, etc do. We can seek therapy, learn NLP, procyon or study courses to evolve our conscious mind (learning to use the programs), and then use other tools for our sub-conscious like subliminals, eft, hypnosis, kinesiology, etc. to actually change the programs, with the intention of learning to master the computer.

[I had just realized I had already replied to this. Interesting how after a year of personal development, I got something quite different from it.]