Disappointed

**moyshekapoyre** · 03-24-2012, 02:37 PM

Namaste folks,

I saw the great reviews on amazon and decided to try this Procyon out. I thought, it may not get me any great experience, but at least I will see something awesome...

Am I the only one not seeing anything awesome? I mean there's lots of flashing lights and it's kinda weird... yes I have my eyelids closed. The most I've seen in 3+ hours of practice (mostly on the last settings, 47-49) has been some bland patterns.

I also tried program 27 to no effect ...

Does it simply take a long time to develop a feel for it, or something? I'm going to get the thoughtstream. Maybe that will amp it up.

**Marisa** · 03-25-2012, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by moyshekapoyre

Namaste folks,

I saw the great reviews on amazon and decided to try this Procyon out. I thought, it may not get me any great experience, but at least I will see something awesome...

Am I the only one not seeing anything awesome? I mean there's lots of flashing lights and it's kinda weird... yes I have my eyelids closed. The most I've seen in 3+ hours of practice (mostly on the last settings, 47-49) has been some bland patterns.

I also tried program 27 to no effect ...

It sounds to me like you bought this machine for more of entertainment purposes? While it can be used that way, keep in mind that it's actually a functional tool. The flashing lights are necessary because the frequency in which they flash (on and off) is correlated to a brainwave frequency.

The machine is programmable and there are programs that other users have created that have more emphasis on the visual experience. Not to mention, you are free to write your own program and create more interesting visual sensations. Everyone is slightly different and what may seem really awesome to one person, may be perceived by another as boring. My point is - the machine gives you the ability to change things more to your liking.

Program 27 is one to help a person fall asleep. When you say 'no effect' were you meaning that you went through the entire program (at night) and didn't fall asleep and wanted to? Or, are you saying it didn't provide an adequately exciting visual experience (and that program really shouldn't btw).

For something a bit more exciting, try program 48 or 49. There isn't any entrainment value in these but they should provide some interesting visuals.

Does it simply take a long time to develop a feel for it, or something? I'm going to get the thoughtstream. Maybe that will amp it up.

No, the Thoughtstream won't amp it up. It's a biofeedback machine and will only provide you with information about your state.

It depends on what you are wanting out of the machine. Some goals do take multiple sessions before you get results and some are immediate. For example, if you are wanting to relax - P 14 (all the way through) should help you achieve that state. If you fight the process by being critical while you are having the session then you will not benefit from the session. You have to let go and just let it happen. Judge it by how you feel 10 minutes after the session ends, not during the session and you will have better results. Honestly.

M.

**neuroasis** · 03-25-2012, 11:04 AM

Hello moyshekapoyre and welcome to the forum. Let me offer some suggestions that maybe will allow for deeper experiences.

When in my teens after reading about the wonders of hypnosis, watching movies like Altered States based on John Lilly's experiences or reading about Shamanic Journeying... etc. I had this impression that I could say these magic words or drink this magic potion or put on this miraculous machine and I would be thrust into virtual reality or take a trip to the land of Oz. I really believed that based on what I had read and saw in the media. It didn't happen that way for me at all. I searched for a long while for magic words, drank some magic potions (with some success there!) and bought several machines and tapes to experiment with.

I remember reading Michael Harner's The Way of the Shaman and buying his journeying tape. I had so much anticipation built up from what I had read in the book that my expectations were high. I set aside a special time when I would be undisturbed, burned some sage, prayed to my power animal, lit some candles, dimmed the lights, got comfortable and put on the headphones. After 30 minutes of a monotonous drum banging in my ear and nothing but a leg that had gone to sleep, I was deflated and disappointed.

Were these people liars and out to steal my money? Was something wrong with me and I just didn't have what it takes?

So I tried again and again. Tried different things. Joined groups, took training, went to hypnotherapists, seances, channeling sessions... bunch of stuff. It was all fun but I was by no means a natural. I was always a bit on the skeptical side and never quite fully had the experiences that the people there, right in front of my eyes reported.

I turned to what was natural for me and what I know did work without me even trying. That is dreaming. I have always had very vivid dreams. Better yet, the more I paid attention to them the more interesting they became. I got to know the characters and places in my dreams. Observed and explored my 'abilities' like flying and teleporting and many others.

I knew that those events seemed and felt real and they were almost an entire inner universe separate from this one. I could not really control them though. Yes, I had glimpses of control and lucidity. In fact, many really outstanding ones that I have never forgotten. But it was still 'happening' to me. I wasn't really participating, more so observing.

Learning about my dreams however I began to notice that memories or internal images from them would pop into my consciousness during the day. I paid attention to how these would happen (knowing that they were from that 'other' world). During meditations I would let my imagination drift back to those scenes.

At some point I noticed that I wasn't 'seeing' things with my eyes like I had expected would happen. In fact, the harder I tried to 'see' something, the less I would. It was when I let go and just tuned into to the emerging images from that internal world that I really started having wonderful experiences.

It seems I had discovered and 'set free' my imagination to roam. Work with machines and hypnosis became so much easier then. Light and sound machines provided great 'stimuli' to suggest and develop these images. Music added to this in deeply satisfying ways.

From there, I also began to discover ranges of frequencies that would have noticeable patterns and imagery. These reinforced my sense of internal vision. And the journey continues...

So, what I am saying is that your power of imagination is unlimited and ever present. It is not your eyes that is seeing!

If you will calibrate your expectations, start from known sources of imagery, keep your eye on the ball (so to speak) and become open to your inner experiences, then I think you will get much closer to the results you desire.

Sorry for the long post but I hope it is helpful!
Scott

**mhulot** · 04-04-2012, 06:16 AM

Scott... I think this is a terrific response. I've been using binaural entrainment for a few years and just recently decided to take the leap to AVS with the Procyon. I'm amazed at the increased effectiveness and fun that light has on entrainment. I couldn't agree more about letting go of a desired immediate outcome... when one is expecting and being too analytical they will fight what is being taught through entrainment.

That being said I think for newcomers to entrainment there aren't enough actual mechanical instructions as to how to achieve the best results... it's like riding a bike... you're learning to use functions of your body and brain that are normally unconsciously regulated... you're learning to be the master your mind! BWAHAHAHAHA

On initial use of the Procyon I realized there were a couple mechanics of entrainment that aren't really emphasized that I think would help newcomers that I think should be included on a leaflet inside the box...

1. Setting the earphones and leds to full blast doesn't make it work any better (in fact the discomfort that may cause might actually defeat the purpose)... it's much more important to find a brightness setting that is comfortable... I actually found I needed to keep my hand on the brightness dial and adjust it at times over the course of a session... sometimes it being very very low... So that my eyes weren't filled with the color but that there was empty space as well... at other points it was much more pleasing and effective at super bright levels... it is after all about the intervals of flashing, not necessarily filling your eyes with light.

2. the binaural beats need to be at a comfortable level as well... I've found that binaural beats can work best when they are nearly imperceptible... the sound doesn't contain the magic it's merely teaching you what specific states of brain function feel like...

3. Think of devices like the Procyon as training wheels for understanding how to flex your brain muscle... there will be a point in using entrainment that you get it. An indescribable (to others) sensation of attaining sync with the frequencies... the device is helping you learn what it feels like to be in greater control of your brain states... in doing so you need to let go and just experience... you will have an AH HA moment! At that point it gets much easier.

4. I'd advise not putting a lot of stock into the descriptions of the programs at first... maybe even paying them no heed... play around and have fun with the device. The programs definitely do what they're supposed to... but again I believe you need to learn how to receive this stimuli before expecting very specific results.

AVS doesn't make your brain better, you do!

Apologies if my writing is so fragmented... I've been observing these forums for a little while and am slightly intimidated by the writing level of the users!

**neuroasis** · 04-04-2012, 06:40 PM

Hello mhulot and thank you for the very helpful insights.

I think that your analogy of riding a bike is quite fitting. The act of riding is the simplest thing in the world. There are simple parts operating in harmony and a momentum that carries you forward creating balance.

At first when you are learning you have a fear of failing or doing it wrong. Because of this the tendency to try too hard or to 'over correct' makes it much more difficult.

It doesn't really make a lot of logical sense that this two wheeled contraption would be so easy to ride. You know it can be done, with graceful and amazing tricks and stunts. It sure seems like it would be a whole lot of fun. So it is worth the work.

So, just get on and give it a try... if awkwardly at first. Once you get it, achieving that moment of balance, which gradually develops into a sense of control, you are off to the races!

The thing is that you can't read a book about how to ride a bike. It is something that you just have to do until you make the breakthrough.

What we hope to do more of is attempt to shed light on 'what' research says may be happening in the brain. (which is not at all settled) And as in your post give guidance on tailoring the settings and experience to your particular physiology and needs. The 'how' can be hinted toward and experienced users can give their perspectives and results... but the final step of 'getting it' is unique to the individual.... psychology as contrasted with neurology.

Everything you have said is absolutely spot on and it is that sense of exploring and tweaking that is helping to create such enjoyment.

The actual parameters of our machines that can be easily tweaked are the brightness of the lights and the volume of the sound. These two settings have a wide range and each person should do what is most comfortable for them.

The programming in the sessions really just creates a balance of these elements where the master levels on the controls are set by the user. Surprisingly with the lights there is a different range of perceived colors with different brightness settings.

Except at the very extremes the actual stimulation would be the same and there is evidence to suggest that the brain has somewhat of an automatic gain control that adjusts and locks onto the stimulus regardless of the initial level as long as it is within the limits of contrasts.

It is also known that binaural beats work just as well at low volumes.

Also, it is quite true to say that the session names and descriptions are only guidelines for their use. Depending on your natural brain rhythms they may have very different effects. They however have been designed based on solid case studies, so they are good starting points.

As with anything in life you will get the best results from consistent practice, self analysis, and realistic goals and expectations. Also, we hope that curious and inventive users such as yourself will share your experiences and ideas as you have in the great post above.

The rewards as you have suggested are deeply profound, foster personal growth and are well worth the effort you put in.

Thanks once again for the great suggestions and welcome to the forum.

Enjoy the ride,
Scott

**Miken277** · 03-22-2013, 09:20 AM

Try this. Say:
"I am the creator of the universe.
I am the father and the mother of the universe.
Everything comes from me, everything shall return to me.
Mind, spirit and body are my temples
For thse self to realize in them my supreme being and becoming."
Say it with attention focused at just above and between the eyebrows, seriously every day, and you will begin to realize your identity as the Self.

**CraigT** · 03-22-2013, 05:26 PM

If all you are seeing is bland patterns then there is something else going on. The light sequences that arrive at the sensory cortex are much the same for one person as another. I trust you have good vision, no color blindness for example?

Beyond this there is a whole bunch of automatic pattern recognition, the failure of which leads to many of the visual effects, followed by a bunch of conscious opinion/decision making. Staring at and thinking about the visuals consciously will change what you see - for the poorer.

The Procyon is worth spending time with. Try different brightness settings. Try the difference between eyes gently closed and pressed closed. Being relaxed is a great way to get the best out of any session - practicing relaxation with the Procyon is a great way to prepare.

Anyway, its really good that you felt comfortable expressing yourself here and you did it politely.

I hope you and your Procyon become good friends.

Cheers,
Craig

**HighVisions** · 03-23-2013, 03:43 PM

Yes, try different brightness settings. Maybe the brightness is too low right now if the patterns are bland.Also check that the goggles are working properly by pressing the upper and middle button before a session - just in case there is a real problem.

**HighVisions** · 03-24-2013, 07:53 AM

By the way, if you use more powerful headphones the lights of the goggles will also be brighter. The default headphones that come with the Procyon are not particularly good. I now use the ones I had for my laptop. They are cheap but still more powerful and work well with the Procyon.