kundalini awakening

[Marisa]

Hi Craig,

Originally Posted by CraigT

I've realised that there has been one group who have responded from the perspective of having "got there" "relatively comfortably", or at least without long term trauma. We're here gloating about how easy it is if you follow instructions. That's great for us to know now! How many times did we screw up before we decided to do it right?

Instructions? Damn did I miss that day those were handed out?

I think if it were easy, I wonder how much would really be learned from the experience(s).

Is the Kundalini awakening essentially the same thing that we did with the tree?

M.

[veeaye]

What I wonder is whether there are that many fears or if the basic fear is just manifesting in different ways. It could be that there is a basic fear underneath all of the bunches of little fears and if you pick off the little ones and not go after the major one, they'll just re-emerge. Kind of reminds me of people who chop down a tree in their yard and don't go after the roots. A short time later you see all these little trees springing up from the roots.

That's a really interesting observation. I'm beginning to think that the only way to get rid of the small fears is just to focus on self esteem.

On the one hand, you will be judged and it appears that you have accepted that and decided that the best alternative is to accept it and move on.

That's true, you are completely right. Acceptance is key.

On the other hand, that little fear of being judged is one of those little trees springing up on the grass. There is a root to that fear which may have to do with not feeling secure about who you are. It may also have to do with a desire to be accepted. In a sense we all have these fears on some level because we all want to be liked and accepted. I like that you decided to confront the fear and put your thoughts out there anyway. That took guts.

I'm sick of living life by fear. Yes we live in a society that is opiniative and judgemental but why should we let that limit ourselves? As long as what we do is legal or relatively legal, i don't see the dillemma.

Acceptance of others the way they are ... that's good. Unconditional love for self and others ... nooooooo. There are times when you shouldn't love yourself, you should kick yourself in the butt and smarten up.

You are totally right, and I can't beleive I didn't see that before. You totally oppenned my eyes on this subject. Conditional love.. but to what extent? I think the conditions that you will love only if there is no real toxicity in the relationship is intelligent, but whatabout people who generally don't please you? Maybe your right, maybe there is a place to loathe yourself a little, so you make better choices in the future. I know that if I didn't feel a bit insecure for example, I wouldn't be so determined to improve my appearance and other facets of me. Maybe having too much acceptance is not a good thing, perhaps you are right and there needs to be a balance. wow.

As you can see I really hate that term "unconditional love" especially when it applies to people and I'll tell you why. Unconditional love is unhealthy. I think there are conditions where someone needs to rethink the love thing and get out of dodge. I think "conditional" love is more mentally and emotionally healthy. With conditional love, you are giving the message that I will love you until you are toxic to me. Then I will cease loving you, I will leave you. Now ** that** is healthy love.

I also think that "unconditional love" cheapens the feeling of love. Love is a special gift that you give someone. It shouldn't be unconditional because that leaves it open to be taken for granted and/or abused.

Just my opinion.

Wow you have really oppenned my eyes to thing's which were right before me, but I didn't see them. Unconditional love = self sacrifice = too much pain and suffering because of others. Hmmm is that wise, intelligent or progressive for evolution? Very clever observation.

Well I think the main thing is that you are working on yourself and are finding progress in your work. I can't say much about your methods because they are not in line with my belief system - and this doesn't look like one of those "debate" messages so I'm not going to go there. It certainly is interesting to read about what someone is doing and what works and doesn't work.

So does this involve examining beliefs and looking for ones that are not in your best interest?

P.S. Thank you for the kind words. Since our beliefs are different, it's a bit of a challenge to get off my soap box and see what's happening on yours.

Didn't you say that you were not into New Age stuff? What do you classify as New Age. Just curious.

M.

M.

I like it when you express yourself in a positive manner. What Im doing does work for me, maybe everybody is different. It appears that you adjust yourself and improve yourself often and that works. Everybody is different, no matter what you do, I realised we have to also come to conscious conclusions and not just purely work on an unconcsious level. I guess it's a process of trial and error for everyone.

New age stuff? I can't comment on that because I beleive there are new age sources of information out there which have no real use in the real world, but there are also some that arent. Most information is rubbish, but some of it is good and useful. I have sources from all over the internet, I have hundreds of websites in my favourates which are valuable sources of information. From everything from energy & magick, to feng shui, to law of attraction, to crystals. But Ive also come accross much filth and have disregarded them. It's easy to get caught on filth in the real world. That's why people come to conslusions such as 'there is no such thng as kundalini' because they get their information from false or amatuer sources and conlude it as fact. I beleive that if at first we dont succeed try again, because you can literely accomplish anything with a persistent attitude.

[Marisa]

Originally Posted by veeaye

That's a really interesting observation. I'm beginning to think that the only way to get rid of the small fears is just to focus on self esteem.

What's behind the fear? What's the positive intent of the fear? The fear is a protection mechanism. Is the fear valid or is the fear out of date (something that may have been formed when you were a child and not capable, as you are now, of dealing with an issue).

Do you have a plan on how to focus on self esteem or would you like some suggestions?

I'm sick of living life by fear. Yes we live in a society that is opinionative and judgemental but why should we let that limit ourselves? As long as what we do is legal or relatively legal, i don't see the dilemma.

I started thinking about the concept of "judgement" and found it an interesting perspective. Judgement is only meaningful to the person who is doing the judging and how much we value that person's view.

A judgement is really just information (feedback) on someone else's perception of something. You are the judge of whether that information is useful to you or not. Remove the emotion from the judgement and look at it for exactly what it is --- information.

You are totally right, and I can't believe I didn't see that before. You totally opened my eyes on this subject.

That's my happy dance from being able to come up with something helpful. LOL it's a residual effect from my work on the Tree where I had to spend a month pondering on various concepts.

Conditional love.. but to what extent? I think the conditions that you will love only if there is no real toxicity in the relationship is intelligent, but what about people who generally don't please you?

The conditions are up to you. You are the one to decide what is toxic for you and what is not. It's going to be different for everyone.

Maybe your right, maybe there is a place to loathe yourself a little, so you make better choices in the future.

A little but not enough to immobilize you. Enough pain to avoid repeating the act and enough foresight to learn from the experience and move on.

I know that if I didn't feel a bit insecure for example, I wouldn't be so determined to improve my appearance and other facets of me. Maybe having too much acceptance is not a good thing, perhaps you are right and there needs to be a balance. wow.

Confidence is more attractive than physical beauty. You can take someone who is ordinary looking and if they act with confidence, they will be perceived as more attractive.

I think looking after your appearance has more to do with self-esteem (in a positive way) than with insecurity. It feels good when we know we look good.

Appearance is also a good tool to have. There is power in looking good. Sure it's superficial but that is the way this world works.

Wow you have really opened my eyes to thing's which were right before me, but I didn't see them. Unconditional love = self sacrifice = too much pain and suffering because of others. Hmmm is that wise, intelligent or progressive for evolution? Very clever observation.

Blush ... wait ... let me bask in this sunshine for a bit. Ah that felt good. Thanks.

Okay back to reality. That is the beauty of discussing things with others - different perceptions can sometimes trigger realizations. These 'ah ha" moments can spring from the oddest sources and sometimes accidentally.

I like it when you express yourself in a positive manner. What I'm doing does work for me, maybe everybody is different. It appears that you adjust yourself and improve yourself often and that works.

Well kudos to you for letting me know that my approach wasn't working for you. Kudos to me for being willing to adapt.

Everybody is different, no matter what you do, I realised we have to also come to conscious conclusions and not just purely work on an unconscious level. I guess it's a process of trial and error for everyone.

That's a good one because the conscious is what provides instruction to the unconscious as to what to believe. The conscious is the "thinking" self, the reasoning self - the unconscious pretty much just takes orders and provides back up.

New age stuff? I can't comment on that because I believe there are new age sources of information out there which have no real use in the real world, but there are also some that aren't. Most information is rubbish, but some of it is good and useful.

I'm making an effort to work on my attitude towards New Age stuff. I find myself getting annoyed with it when I think it would be better to be amused or indifferent. I think I suffer from a bit of magickal snobbery which in itself is pretty funny because the atheist side of me says, "What, your (de)illusions are more valid then their (de)illusions?" Doh!

I believe that if at first we don't succeed try again, because you can literary accomplish anything with a persistent attitude.

Oh, I'd like to add to that. If you first don't succeed try again but change something because there is no point in repeating the same thing and get the same results over and over and over.

M.

[veeaye]

What's behind the fear? What's the positive intent of the fear? The fear is a protection mechanism. Is the fear valid or is the fear out of date (something that may have been formed when you were a child and not capable, as you are now, of dealing with an issue).

Do you have a plan on how to focus on self esteem or would you like some suggestions?

I think got the self esteem covered. It's mostly just to do with childhood/early life experiences. The smallest thing's, or thing's which appear to be insignificant events seem to have an impact on the sub-concsious and effect your level of self esteem.

I started thinking about the concept of "judgement" and found it an interesting perspective. Judgement is only meaningful to the person who is doing the judging and how much we value that person's view.

A judgement is really just information (feedback) on someone else's perception of something. You are the judge of whether that information is useful to you or not. Remove the emotion from the judgement and look at it for exactly what it is --- information.

You're exactly right. So why do we fear being judged, when all it is, is someone elses opinion of us? Beat's me! The sub-concsious can be cruel at times. I have realised just today that if someone is feeling insecure they may view my contructive critisicm as being harsh. But when I truly feel it's being helpful and they are just taking it the wrong way, I don't allow myself to be afraid of them changeing how they feel about me. I suppose that's why people of varying degrees of self esteem tend not to mix so well.

I'll try to be less up front in the future but I learned some people who have lower self esteem require everything to be sugar coated and overly supportive to the extreme. I just told a friend that she needs to be more self assured than to look towards me for advice, and I felt a sense of anger and dissapointment from her - though she has a right to be because I used to look towards her for advice in the past, not that she was much helpful - I just thought it would be helpful to let her know that she shouldn't be overly dependant on another persons views - that's not wrong is it?

I guess we have to adjust, so we get the message accross whilst not coming on too strong, and if we do sound harsh, not to worry too much about their reaction. After all, we are doing our best.

That's my happy dance from being able to come up with something helpful. LOL it's a residual effect from my work on the Tree where I had to spend a month pondering on various concepts.

You are too funny.

The conditions are up to you. You are the one to decide what is toxic for you and what is not. It's going to be different for everyone.

Yes but too conditional and you won't get nuthin'.

A little but not enough to immobilize you. Enough pain to avoid repeating the act and enough foresight to learn from the experience and move on.

You're right, that perfect balance. Would that require the use of the ego? Or can just the personality have a brief episode of anger on it's own?

Confidence is more attractive than physical beauty. You can take someone who is ordinary looking and if they act with confidence, they will be perceived as more attractive.

I think looking after your appearance has more to do with self-esteem (in a positive way) than with insecurity. It feels good when we know we look good.

I think it's funny you say that because I have delved allot in plastic surgery. But I can't see myself touching it in the next life. I suppose that since im building up my self esteem now, it will benefit me far far in the future and when you have high self esteem, you don't usually go to such drastic measures unless you need to.

Appearance is also a good tool to have. There is power in looking good. Sure it's superficial but that is the way this world works.

Some people are superficial and will only want to be approached by someone they feel attractive and vice versa. However your right, confidence is alluring and attractive to everyone; it could probably even bypass their ego mechanisms.

Blush ... wait ... let me bask in this sunshine for a bit. Ah that felt good. Thanks.

You deserve it, you're really good at what you do and you have a sound knowledge on thing's. I don't blame you for being skeptical of the metaphysical - that's called being smart. Especially that most thing's of a metaphysical nature are pure b.s.

Okay back to reality. That is the beauty of discussing things with others - different perceptions can sometimes trigger realizations. These 'ah ha" moments can spring from the oddest sources and sometimes accidentally.

You're right, everything matters, everything makes its mark. I'm like a sponge in this point in my life, absorbing information.

Well kudos to you for letting me know that my approach wasn't working for you. Kudos to me for being willing to adapt.

Yeah it works better when your nice, because it builds rapport, but being too 'out there' can sometimes make a person feel intimidated or disliked. That being said, I know it can be hard to get to the point without sounding offensive.

That's a good one because the conscious is what provides instruction to the unconscious as to what to believe. The conscious is the "thinking" self, the reasoning self - the unconscious pretty much just takes orders and provides back up.

In re-programming, they work beautifully together. I guess that's where inquiry, 'aha' and evaluating, comes in handy.

I'm making an effort to work on my attitude towards New Age stuff. I find myself getting annoyed with it when I think it would be better to be amused or indifferent. I think I suffer from a bit of magickal snobbery which in itself is pretty funny because the atheist side of me says, "What, your (de)illusions are more valid then their (de)illusions?" Doh!

I appreciate your view on new age 'stuff'. Because it shows that you are an intelligent person who is well grounded and doesn't take a limb on something you can't prove. But the experiences I have, as normal and real as they are to me. Are rarely felt and experienced by others, so there is no real way of proving it - like there would be no way of introducing colour to a blind man. You can say that I have a bit more 'colour' to my life. Only because I asked for it and beleived it could happen. For some people it never happen's. I guess I found the right sources of information. This doesn't mean that my life is tons more richer because of it. It just mean's that this is a subject I am interested in and 'know' is real, so therefore if it is real in my eyes - and I persue it, then it must manifest itself to me, which it has. I truly beleive there is much much more to life than we can see. We only see a small portion of it. How much of reality is perceptional?

Oh, I'd like to add to that. If you first don't succeed try again but change something because there is no point in repeating the same thing and get the same results over and over and over.

M.

Yupp.. I came up with this wonderful process where I wrote down mistakes I made in the past and how I could change those actions to result in better outcomes. By visualising that when I am, perhaps on procyon, Im sure could prevent myself from making those mistakes in the future, next lifetimes or even maybe programme my mind into beleiving that's what actually happenned - which is unlikely because when it comes to memories, my mind is extremely vivid in detail which is likely why I suffered more trauma than my siblings. I tend to have razor sharp photograph like memory.

Do you do visualisation techniques while on Procyon? It's amazing how many people don't know how fantastic procyon is. I think this sort of thing is a taste of the future and what's to come. It's one of the greatest devices for self improvement, brain development and integration.

[veeaye]

Originally Posted by CraigT

I'd like to apologise to and thank everyone who contributed to this discussion.

I've realised that there has been one group who have responded from the perspective of having "got there" "relatively comfortably", or at least without long term trauma. We're here gloating about how easy it is if you follow instructions. That's great for us to know now! How many times did we screw up before we decided to do it right?

To be clear - I don't mean "didn't do it my way", I mean didn't choose a way and stick to it rigorously for long enough to understand where it was going.

Some pieces of the puzzle have fallen into place. If there's anything I can do to ease the passage for another human being, it is my obligation to give freely and without prejudice or judgement. That is an element of the Oath of the Abyss that has only become evident when the circumstances in life make it meaningful.

Cheers,
Craig

I definately think there are easier way's of going through the kundalini process. But I was unwilling to be patient and wait for results, so i overdid my meditations which brought more energy and attention to my ego. It's probably advantagious to work on releasing the ego before you delve into kundalini. I feel that the ego is the worlds greatest enemy and that we can still suffer the positive effects of negative emotion whilst having no ego, only it would be breif and constructive, rather than long and restrictive.

[veeaye]

I also want to mention that over the last few day's I have gone through a pronounced change, or leap. Accompanied by extreme heat, inner tension and sickness. Much of my ego has 'burst' out of me. I had felt a shaking feeling as I woke up this morning. I feel a strong sense of releif from the ego. I'm going to go out on a limb here and claim that I have communicated with the god 'Dionysus', he is wanting to help me and work with me for a while. he is extremely loving, when I feel him around I feel his love piercing into me. I have met him on the astral. he looks very much like he was sculpted.

[Marisa]

Originally Posted by veeaye

You're exactly right. So why do we fear being judged, when all it is, is someone else's opinion of us?

Because as emotional creatures, we are not always logical. The emotional aspect is that we desire to be liked and accepted. The logic comes in and tells us when or whether this desire is appropriate.

It becomes complicated when we have to navigate social or societal norms. It's a balance between expressing your individuality and behaving in an acceptable way (to society).

There is no right or wrong, it comes down to a decision about what outcome you want to achieve. If you express your individuality around conservative people, you will get a different outcome (likely rejection) than if you expressed your individuality around more liberal people.

Again - how you are judged depends upon who is judging you. And, sometimes someone else's opinion matters - especially if you want them to like you.

The sub-conscious can be cruel at times.

Not deliberately.

I have realised just today that if someone is feeling insecure they may view my constructive criticism as being harsh. But when I truly feel it's being helpful and they are just taking it the wrong way, I don't allow myself to be afraid of them changing how they feel about me. I suppose that's why people of varying degrees of self esteem tend not to mix so well.

It's true that people with low self-esteem are hyper sensitive and have a tendency to perceive things in a negative way. If you don't care if you piss them off, then you don't have to think carefully about your words, tone of voice etc. If you want to be helpful to them, then you may want to choose a different approach.

Let's face it, "constructive criticism" is rarely constructive to the person receiving the criticism. The only "constructive" perspective is your positive intent in helping the person. The criticism itself is ... well criticism (a critical judgment).

If your desired outcome is to be helpful, then you may want to choose a different route - for example - telling them how they would benefit from doing something differently rather than telling them what they are doing wrong. It's more indirect but it may be better received.

I'll try to be less up front in the future but I learned some people who have lower self esteem require everything to be sugar coated and overly supportive to the extreme.

It depends on who you are talking to. I don't think it's necessary to "sugar coat" your communication with insecure people. I think it's enough to just change the tone from negative to positive.

I've come across some people that you could say "hello" to and they'd take that as a insult. For those people, after a few tries, I usually just walk away because I figure that they are either just crazy or manipulative - either way, I don't want to deal with them so problem solved.

I just told a friend that she needs to be more self assured than to look towards me for advice, and I felt a sense of anger and disappointment from her - though she has a right to be because I used to look towards her for advice in the past, not that she was much helpful - I just thought it would be helpful to let her know that she shouldn't be overly dependant on another persons views - that's not wrong is it?

Your intent was fine, she just may have misinterpreted the meaning. Next, you don't know if this is how she felt - you are essentially guessing and guessing at what part of the message she reacted to. If you want to know for sure - ask her.

What I've done in the past to help someone break the habit of depending on my advice is to ask them: "So what are you going to do about this?" or "So what are your options" or "What do you feel like doing?" Any of those questions puts the ball back into their court and also empowers them to think for themselves without them feeling "cut off" or "slighted". Maybe this kind of approach would work better with your friend?

I guess we have to adjust, so we get the message across whilst not coming on too strong,

Exactly

and if we do sound harsh, not to worry too much about their reaction. After all, we are doing our best.

Maybe ... maybe not. It doesn't matter if we are doing our best. What really matters is the outcome we receive. If you are okay with the outcome, then mission accomplished. If you are not happy with the outcome - you have other options (change it, learn from it, accept it).

Sometimes the real desired outcome is not what you thought it would be. For example: A person is around you who is heavily dependent on you for emotional support and you are starting to feel like they are sucking the energy out of you. So you are short with them - they get pissed off and go away. When you were short with them, you just wanted them to stop the behavior but unconsciously, you really wanted them to go away because you didn't want to deal with them any more. In that case, once you are aware of what your "true will" is telling you - you are in a better position to decide whether you want to repair any damage caused or just keep on walkin'.

You are too funny.

Ya, I'm a legend in my own mind.

Yes but too conditional and you won't get nuthin'

.

Oh you get sumthin' ... you get a fight.

You're right, that perfect balance. Would that require the use of the ego? Or can just the personality have a brief episode of anger on it's own?

The ego motivates you. Anger could be the result of ego not getting what it wants. Anything that you think or do that has to do with self is going to involve ego. Some ego is good ... too much ego ... not so good.

I think it's funny you say that because I have delved allot in plastic surgery. But I can't see myself touching it in the next life. I suppose that since I'm building up my self esteem now, it will benefit me far far in the future and when you have high self esteem, you don't usually go to such drastic measures unless you need to.

There is nothing wrong with a bit of plastic surgery if you can afford it and if it makes you feel better about yourself. It's not a lot different than someone wearing make up or getting their hair dyed. I think the key is "moderation". Some people go to extremes and then it becomes a mental problem.

Some people are superficial and will only want to be approached by someone they feel attractive and vice versa. However your right, confidence is alluring and attractive to everyone; it could probably even bypass their ego mechanisms.

Ya, you may not want to choose those people as friends but you may have to deal with them at work etc.

I appreciate your view on new age 'stuff'. Because it shows that you are an intelligent person who is well grounded and doesn't take a limb on something you can't prove. But the experiences I have, as normal and real as they are to me. Are rarely felt and experienced by others, so there is no real way of proving it - like there would be no way of introducing colour to a blind man. You can say that I have a bit more 'colour' to my life. Only because I asked for it and believed it could happen. For some people it never happens. I guess I found the right sources of information. This doesn't mean that my life is tons more richer because of it.

Hey, it's where you are at. Whether you stay there or not ... only time will tell. I've seen and experienced my fair share of strange only now, I look at things from a different perspective. It's not better or worse ... it's just different.

It just means that this is a subject I am interested in and 'know' is real, so therefore if it is real in my eyes - and I pursue it, then it must manifest itself to me, which it has. I truly believe there is much much more to life than we can see. We only see a small portion of it. How much of reality is perceptional?

I would have to say that 100% of **our** reality is perceptual ... that doesn't mean that 100% of reality is perceptual (only how we interpret it).

I tend to have razor sharp photograph like memory.

That can be useful for NLP change work. In case you haven't come across this before ... you can take the emotion out of a bad memory by changing the picture from color to black and white and by making the picture smaller. If you are good at visualization, you can do lots of change work with those pictures in a much easier way than by traditional methods.

Do you do visualisation techniques while on Procyon?

Not really anything beyond creating patterns in the lights.

It's amazing how many people don't know how fantastic Procyon is. I think this sort of thing is a taste of the future and what's to come. It's one of the greatest devices for self improvement, brain development and integration.

I agree.

M.

[CraigT]

Congrats, Veeaye, on a spectacular turnaround of a situation that wasn't looking too flash! Your willingness to consider your experience in different lights brought you through.

Best you take some time to reflect on all of this and consolidate your own truth, along with that you acquire from your "angel". Don't let anyone try to discuss your truth or understanding to death.

LLL
Craig