Procyon or Kasina for lucid dreaming and astral voyage

[Denis]

Hi

If someone can help me about this question:

I am about to purchase my first brainmachine for the purpose to inducing lucid dreaming and astral voyage, wich this
objective in mind, may i choose Procyon? or kasina? and Why?

Someone who has achieved success in this goal( lucid dream and astral voyage with brainmachines) and could give me some
advice or any recomendation !

Thank so much to those who respond my questions!

Denis

[Andy]

Hello Denis;

Many people have talked about Lucid Dreaming with MindPlace products. Here are some examples:

http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...ith-the-Kasina
http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...ection-Session
http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...-best-from-AVS
http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...Lucid-Dreaming

[neuroasis]

Hello Denis,
These requests are much associated with the realm of mind machines. I use them for this purpose as well as several others on this site. We cannot however say that they will work this way for everyone without effort and some measure of innate propensity. Andy has some good links above.

Generally, I think the Kasina is a much better choice for this use and also overall. It is much more customizable and has many modern features. You can easily use audio voice guidance and hypnotic inductions for instance. As well as music and traditional brainwave entrainment tones. The Procyon occupies a unique realm as a nice visual effects unit as well as a very good mind machine.

It is simply that with the Kasina your options are larger and more accessible.

All the principles of hypnotic pulsing lights that encourage altered states of mind apply to both units. Let me know if you would like more feature comparison info.

Best regards,
Scott

[Denis]

Andy an Neuroasis,

Well, Many thanks for yours advices and indications of links in forum.

I?m new in this concept and this subject..so I will return here for more informations soon.

Thank you soo much

Denis

Denis

[Denis]

Hi Andy and Neuroasis or another member of this forum that can help me in some questions:

With procyon I keep my eyes closed and get the stimulation of the lights and the Bineuralbeats music , eyes closed ok!

With kasina I keep my eyes open during the session and get the stimulations images projected on the screen os the glasses with Bineuralbeats music, eys open ok!

Who has expertise and experience in the practice :there is some benefit ? that is unique to eyes close ?? and unique for eyes open?? In other words: the procyon user don?t be able to get some kind of beneficts that only be able to the kasina?s users and vice versa ; even the images in this glasses with eye open is much better( kasina), BUT even
that have a specific beneficts that only available in procion user?s and kasina user?s. IF YES?? ...WHAT BENEFFICTS IS?? AND WHY???

Why this question:
Because in my opinion (novice ) are two diferent states of stimulation, one eye closed( procion) and other eye open ( kasina ), considering that I'm not able to reproduce the lights of the procyon in the kasina machine than maybe even i have a better machine ( kasina) have a benefict that i don?t be able to gain ( supose) THAT ONLY BE ABLE IN THE OTHER PRODUCT AND VICE VERSA

I understand and supose that : see pictures and "be there inside "eyes open (kasina) is much better much richer!! ... but what if the stimulation of eyes closed (procyon) provide something inherent in it ...

Is possible reproduce the lights of procyon glasses in kasina glasses ,give me the opportunty to have a procyon complete session in the kasina machine.

Finally the sessions that came with kasina is the same that came with procyon?or are different?

Thanks a lot.. sorry about my english !!

Denis

[neuroasis]

Each one of our machines has a unique experience. I know this seems strange as from the outside they just look like flashing lights. During meditation though the characteristics of the special properties of the LED arrangements and the technology that is controlling them is revealed.

This is the main reason that you cannot just convert or transfer sessions from one machine to another. Those with the Proteus and Procyon will agree that the sessions although using many of the same frequencies are not the same. Even the ones transferred directly from the Proteus are not exactly the same on the Procyon. It takes some time working with each machine to understand this.

The sessions on the Kasina are all new (besides the Sirius ones) The Proteus and Procyon sessions share a common lineage.

It is good that you have both machines. I use all of our machines at different times depending on mood and my particular need and intention. The Kasina is the most well rounded and recommended for most users though.

As far as eye open and eye closed. You will learn to do what works best for you. You will probably end up with your eyes closed most of the time. In deep unguided trance the eyes will most always want to close. It is a very advanced level of meditation where one has visions while the eyes are open. This moves into the realm of scrying. (google that)

However, it is a good thing open your eyes for just a couple of seconds and get afterimages (phosphenes) and then use those to build up imagery for the imagination to work with. I often open my eyes briefly at intervals during the start of meditation sessions to charge the phosphenes.

There is really no simple way to explain this. You just have to experiment and see what works best for you. The very nature of our machines is that they need personal exploration.