Proteus and new open glasses from avstim

[ateeq]

Has anybody seen the new lisgt goggles from avstim
Fourth Generation MindSpa w/Multi-Purpose Glasses for open or closed eye use
producers of the mindspar www.avstim.com
you can use theese glasses with the proteus ,This i have checked
but has anybody had any experience with them i am thinking about purchasing to use with my proteus or do th program neesd to be designed specialy for the open type glasses
Regards Ateeq

[Marisa]

Hi Ateeq,

Has anybody seen the new lisgt goggles from avstim
Fourth Generation MindSpa w/Multi-Purpose Glasses for open or closed eye use
producers of the mindspar www.avstim.com
you can use these glasses with the Proteus ,This i have checked
but has anybody had any experience with them i am thinking about purchasing to use with my Proteus or do th program needs to be designed specially for the open type glasses
Regards Ateeq

First of all, thank you for bringing up this subject as I'm sure there are others who have a similar question.

The answer is simple: DON'T DO IT!

I wonder why you would want to use those glasses anyway when ours are designed specifically for the Proteus and will achieve the same, if not better effects than another product hybrid. I can't guarantee that they will work with the Proteus, nor can I guarantee that you will get the results you desire. Personally I think it would be a waste of money and a risk not worth taking.

WARNING: If you use light frames that are not designed specifically for our equipment and your Proteus is damaged as a result - or you become injured - we are not responsible for you or your damaged equipment. We only guarantee our equipment for safety providing it's used properly and the warranty only applies to the proper use of our equipment. Proper use does not include mix and match on the light frames.

Is there something that you are wanting to do with your Proteus and feel you would accomplish more by using different light frames? Eyes open does not enhance the effect more than eyes closed - just in case you are wondering.

M.

[biosylum]

Marisa, can you please elaborate on your statement -'Eyes open does not enhance the effect more than eyes closed'? Have you some well-rounded experience to back up this claim? Are you merely claiming that the visual patterns evoked while eyes are shut, would not be anymore spectacular with eyes wide open? Personally, though I have no experience to draw from, I thought the ability to train the mind to achieve certain goals, while the eyes were open, would likely be beneficial. Being able to focus brainwaves while the eyes were involved with the complexities of life would seem positive, if not more valuable. Your statement was just so point blank, that I hoped you would clarify your position.... or not... or whatever. Just curious -bios

[Marisa]

Hello Biosylum,

Marisa, can you please elaborate on your statement -'Eyes open does not enhance the effect more than eyes closed'?

I was talking about the effect of brain entrainment - coaxing the brain into the desired state. The key is in the frequency (the pulses) not how bright or loud the delivery system. The same applies to the sound portion of the entrainment process - turning up the sound louder does not make the entrainment process more powerful. Results can be achieved with very dim lights and sound.

For open eye stimulation, the LEDs couldn't be very bright or else it would be an unpleasant experience. Also, with open eyes, you wouldn't get the effects of the patterns and different colors - which don't really do anything for entrainment but it makes the process more enjoyable.

Have you some well-rounded experience to back up this claim?

Such as?

Are you merely claiming that the visual patterns evoked while eyes are shut, would not be anymore spectacular with eyes wide open?

I am also claiming that the visual patterns with eyes shut are more spectacular than with eyes open.

Personally, though I have no experience to draw from, I thought the ability to train the mind to achieve certain goals, while the eyes were open, would likely be beneficial. Being able to focus brain waves while the eyes were involved with the complexities of life would seem positive, if not more valuable.

Training the mind to achieve certain goals involves teaching your self how the mind works and then practicing those skills. A L&S machine is a tool that helps get your brain into the desired state where you can use those skills. For example, if you choose to do Beta training - this will "wake up" your mind, put you in a more alert or invoke higher cognitive function.

Your statement was just so point blank, that I hoped you would clarify your position.... or not... or whatever. Just curious -bios

A little on the blunt side for you eh?

[biosylum]

Well I think you clarified, and the eyes open/closed debate shall remain unsettled. If there is nothing technically preventing someone from trying other frames, then they should be allowed, if not encouraged - who knows where the next advancement/breakthrough will come from. If getting to some specific frequency is good for us (when tied to goggles and equipment), then transcending the need for that equipment would be good - and if 'eyes open' could benefit that goal, then amen.

[Marisa]

Well I think you clarified, and the eyes open/closed debate shall remain unsettled.

It's a matter of preference, though I can not understand why anyone would want to have their eyes open in a session as it takes away from the encapsulated or "Ganzfield" experience.

The studies Mindplace conducted found that eyes open did not produce as good of results (EEG activation) as eyes closed did. So eyes open does work - just not as well as eyes closed.

If there is nothing technically preventing someone from trying other frames, then they should be allowed, if not encouraged

-

The issue here is about substituting other manufacturer's equipment with ours. We have no control over another manufacturer's quality of product, nor do we have any control over whether it is truly compatible or not with ours. In order for us to "encourage" this we would have to test the product and ensure it meets our safety and quality standards first.

What if you used someone else's light frames with our machine and your eyes became injured? There are liability issues here as well as safety. So no, I don't encourage it. Keep in mind that you are experimenting with your vision and your brain. If you want to do this against the recommendation of the manufacturer of your product, then by all means go ahead. You are also free to stare at the sun, ride a motorcycle without a helmet or skateboard without protective gear. You can even substitute the wheels on your skateboard with bicycle wheels but don't expect the skateboard manufacturer to endorse your efforts.

Sidebar: Headphones, on the other hand, are standard equipment and our headphones can be substituted with others provided you get the ones with the right jacks to fit the Proteus. This is a totally different matter than the one discussed here as lightframes are not standardized equipment.

Who knows where the next advancement/breakthrough will come from.

If it's already being done by someone else then there is no "breakthrough" to be had, is there?

As for advancements, Mindplace's products are leading edge. We're the ones who are making the advancements.

If getting to some specific frequency is good for us (when tied to goggles and equipment), then transcending the need for that equipment would be good - and if 'eyes open' could benefit that goal, then amen.

And our machines already do that and you can even keep your eyes closed.

[biosylum]

"but has anybody had any experience with them i am thinking about purchasing to use with my proteus or do th program neesd to be designed specialy for the open type glasses"


-- too bad we did not get an answer to either of your questions. I really wondered why these forums were so sparse in content. I do not wonder anymore. Fear breeds fear...Im outta here.

(wipe that subtle grin off your face marisa...or not)

[Marisa]

"but has anybody had any experience with them i am thinking about purchasing to use with my proteus or do th program neesd to be designed specially for the open type glasses"

No one I know of has bought another brand of glasses to be used with the Proteus. Would they work? I don't know. The programs are rather specific to the light frames in that the program directs which color comes on, brightness and frequency. Sorry, not much help here.

-- too bad we did not get an answer to either of your questions. I really wondered why these forums were so sparse in content. I do not wonder anymore. Fear breeds fear...Im outta here.

Now, now, calm down. Didn't mean to scare you. If you hang around I will see if I can find a more satisfying answer for you?

(wipe that subtle grin off your face marisa...or not)

Subtle, hmm I've been called worse. lol No staring at the sun now.

[Robert Austin]

Greetings--there is a body of research on photic stimulation which indicates that when your eyes are open, the EEG effects of such stimulation are diminished. I can't quote you specific references off the top of my head but I have read them over the years--this is one reason why nearly all L&S machines have been "eyes closed". You can search Pubmed to locate them if you wish. For an excellent introduction to photic driving, see the early sections of Jon Frederick's PhD disseration, reference 18 at http://www.tc.umn.edu/~smiile/.

BTW, eyes open stimulation can produce clinical effects; the Dr Harold Russell SBIR studies used a version of this in 1994 (we developed the hardware for the study) and elicited a positive effect on ADHD.

Robert

[ohCD]

I've been thinking of buying new set of glasses for two reasons.

a) the old ones don't work anymore, even after soldering them back to working condition a couple of times.

b) there are some cool, Procyon like glasses available these days.

I suppose fixing my old ones by you would cost so much it wouldn't be much of a deal. When I saw the way the electronics was made, I was disappointed. No wonder they broke so easily - the board should have been made of a stiffer material to complement the often thin spots of solder.