Comparing Proteus & Procyon

[Survivor]

Hello Group

I'm a new member to the group. I am in the process of trying to decide which of the two units to purchase, so I would really appreciate some help. Some background on myself.....I have spent the last 15 months on chemotherapy battling, & winning the fight I might add, breast cancer. The cancer is gone ( yay ) but I am left with some issues. I was extremely allergic to one of the chemo drugs that I desperately needed. I was given a lot of drugs to counteract the allergies. I reacted badly to one of these drugs. I started to get panic attacks...which I have never had in my life. I am told it will take over a year for the effects of all the drugs to leave my body. The panic attacks leave me exhausted & lethargic. Chemo Brain is a common expression to those of us who have been on the drugs. Our minds go blank. We get dreadfully confused at times. What used to be simple is quite complicated. Sleep doesn't come easily to me now either. My Doctor had a Proteus unit & gave it to me for two weeks to try to see if it would help me. I feel extremely fortunate. I need to let you know that I am totaly ignorant about light & sound therapy. I had never heard of it before I was given the Proteus, so I am ploughing my way through all this new information. I feel like I am on information overload at times. So many new words to learn!!

In any event, here are my questions.........

1) I have been using Proteus to help me get to sleep. I have been quite successful with it. I am using #47. I actually fall asleep with the unit on!! However, I now wake up @ 0400 & am wide awake!!! It used to be a challenge to fall asleep, but once there I would sleep for 8 hours uninterupted. So, I am wondering if there is something I am doing wrong. I use the Proteus again @ 0400 but don't get back to sleep easily at all. It usually takes another 2 hours. Any thoughts or suggestions??

2) Panic attacks.....I can feel them coming on. I remove myself from whatever the situation is immediately. Usually it is being around other people & too many people talking at once. I cannot follow the conversation when that happens. A restaurant....the background noise is too loud for me & I have to leave. Which of the programs do you think I should use to help calm me down?? If I get into a panic attack, after it is gone, I just feel totally worn out & don't want to do anything. Which of the programs are good for getting rid of lethargy??

3) Stress relief.....my poor husband has had to watch all of this happen to me. He has had to carry the load of the household for almost 2 years now. He makes all the decisions on his own. I cannot deal with these things. Needless to say, he will be subjected to stress often. Is there a particular program that is better than another for relieving stress???

4) Which device...... Given my problems, why would I buy one device instead of the other?? Which one do you feel would serve my needs better & why do you think so??

Well, that's it for now. Thank you in advance for any help you will offer me.

[Marisa]

Hi Survivor, Welcome to the Forum,

1) I have been using Proteus to help me get to sleep. I have been quite successful with it. I am using #47. I actually fall asleep with the unit on!! However, I now wake up @ 0400 & am wide awake!!! It used to be a challenge to fall asleep, but once there I would sleep for 8 hours uninterupted. So, I am wondering if there is something I am doing wrong. I use the Proteus again @ 0400 but don't get back to sleep easily at all. It usually takes another 2 hours. Any thoughts or suggestions??

You are not doing anything wrong. You may not need as much sleep as you use to and you may be waking up because you have sufficiently rested.

Just out of curiosity, if you are waking up at 4am, what time are you going to bed?

Has anything else changed between the time that you use to sleep through the night and the present times where you don't? For example, is there anything you are eating or drinking before bed that has caffeine or sugar in it?

You say that when you wake up at 4, you are wide awake. If you were to get up and read or do something for an hour or so, would you feel sleepy and want to go back to bed or would you stay awake for the day?

2) Panic attacks.....I can feel them coming on. I remove myself from whatever the situation is immediately. Usually it is being around other people & too many people talking at once. I cannot follow the conversation when that happens. A restaurant....the background noise is too loud for me & I have to leave. Which of the programs do you think I should use to help calm me down?? If I get into a panic attack, after it is gone, I just feel totally worn out & don't want to do anything. Which of the programs are good for getting rid of lethargy??

The best thing to do when you feel a panic attack coming on is to toss something (maybe one of those hacky sack balls) back and forth from one hand to the other. The ball should pass over your mid section when it goes from one hand to the other. It will stop the panic attack.

Here's a link to some short videos that explain why this technique works: http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...read.php?t=584

If the lethargy is due to a tired mind, then you can perk it up with some low Beta programs such as P38 to 42. If your body is tired, then besides rest, vitamin/herbal supplements will be more helpful than the machine. Supplements like ginseng, whey protein, royal jelly & green tea all help perk up the body energy a bit. If you are into drinking those super healthy vegan like shakes (bleh), let me know and I'll give you the email address of a friend of mine who is totally into that sort of thing and would likely love to give lots of advice.

3) Stress relief.....my poor husband has had to watch all of this happen to me. He has had to carry the load of the household for almost 2 years now. He makes all the decisions on his own. I cannot deal with these things. Needless to say, he will be subjected to stress often. Is there a particular program that is better than another for relieving stress???

He would benefit from any Alpha based program. On the Proteus, P8 is a nice relaxing program. Actually any of the programs in the "Relaxation" category would be good. P7 to 16.

4) Which device...... Given my problems, why would I buy one device instead of the other?? Which one do you feel would serve my needs better & why do you think so??

They both do exactly the same thing and so it comes down to a matter of preference and which bells and whistles you like. The Procyon is a higher end unit in that the "insides" use newer technology (for example, digital sound as opposed to analog). The Procyon also has three colors of LEDs and the Proteus two. Here's a link that gives you a comparison between the two products: http://www.ayrmetes.com/Mind_Product...comparison.htm

Of course the Procyon is more expensive than the Proteus so that is a consideration also. Both machines are excellent and will give you the results you want. The Procyon has some extras that may or may not matter to you. The extras will not matter for what you are using the machine for as they both influence the brain waves in exactly the same way (all light and sound machines work on the same principle).

I hope this helps. If you have any more questions, please continue to ask.

P.S. I'm very happy to hear that you have won this battle. Now to get your life back eh.

[Survivor]

Hi Survivor, Welcome to the Forum,


You are not doing anything wrong. You may not need as much sleep as you use to and you may be waking up because you have sufficiently rested.

Just out of curiosity, if you are waking up at 4am, what time are you going to bed?

I usually go to bed around 11:30 or midnight.

Has anything else changed between the time that you use to sleep through the night and the present times where you don't? For example, is there anything you are eating or drinking before bed that has caffeine or sugar in it?

Nothing at all other than using the Proteus.

You say that when you wake up at 4, you are wide awake. If you were to get up and read or do something for an hour or so, would you feel sleepy and want to go back to bed or would you stay awake for the day?

I haven't tried getting up. I think my husband would not be impressed. He is a very light sleeper & for sure I would wake him up. I usually fall back to sleep & wake up later than normal to get my 8 hours. So, sleep from 1200 - 0400 & then from 0600-1000. I feel dragged out for the rest of the day.

The best thing to do when you feel a panic attack coming on is to toss something (maybe one of those hacky sack balls) back and forth from one hand to the other. The ball should pass over your mid section when it goes from one hand to the other. It will stop the panic attack.

Here's a link to some short videos that explain why this technique works: http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...read.php?t=584

THAT was really interesting to watch. They say....when you change the way you look at things, you change the things you look at. So, instead of focusing on the feeling of anxiety, knowing where it could lead to left unattended, I would be concentrating on throwing the ball. I like that!! Definietely worth a try!!!

If the lethargy is due to a tired mind, then you can perk it up with some low Beta programs such as P38 to 42. If your body is tired, then besides rest, vitamin/herbal supplements will be more helpful than the machine. Supplements like ginseng, whey protein, royal jelly & green tea all help perk up the body energy a bit. If you are into drinking those super healthy vegan like shakes (bleh), let me know and I'll give you the email address of a friend of mine who is totally into that sort of thing and would likely love to give lots of advice.

Thanks for the offer of the vegan drinks, but like you....bleh! :>) My Dr. has told me these drugs I have taken can cause strong mood swings from a day to day basis. So, some days I wake up & it is all I can do to get out of bed. I cannot seem to will myself to overcome inertia. Everything feels like a mountain to climb. I do very little. That leads to guilt & that to a depression. Then another day I wake up & I am just fine. It's the days that I just described that I would love to try to alter my brain pattern. There doesn't seem any reason to be tired. After a full blown panic attack, the fatigue is similar to that experienced by epileptics. It is draining to go through a panic attack.....a full blown one. No fun at all. So, it is two different circumstances.

He would benefit from any Alpha based program. On the Proteus, P8 is a nice relaxing program. Actually any of the programs in the "Relaxation" category would be good. P7 to 16.

Thank you so very much. Poor man has been through a lot. Most people focus one the person going through the cancer & chemo. I often think it is more difficult for the person who is the caretaker. To watch the one they love go through this & feel so helpless & want so badly to make it go away. He told me he had to learn to give up the control he never had in the first place! So true!!

They both do exactly the same thing and so it comes down to a matter of preference and which bells and whistles you like. The Procyon is a higher end unit in that the "insides" use newer technology (for example, digital sound as opposed to analog). The Procyon also has three colors of LEDs and the Proteus two. Here's a link that gives you a comparison between the two products: http://www.ayrmetes.com/Mind_Product...comparison.htm

Of course the Procyon is more expensive than the Proteus so that is a consideration also. Both machines are excellent and will give you the results you want. The Procyon has some extras that may or may not matter to you. The extras will not matter for what you are using the machine for as they both influence the brain waves in exactly the same way (all light and sound machines work on the same principle).

The Procyon seemed easier to connect to a PC via the USB cable. I don't have a serial port & from what I have read on the forum, it can be quite the challenge finding the right serial/usb cable that can work. You pay a fair amount for a good serial/usb cable so that takes care of some of the cost of the Procyon doesn't it??

I hope this helps. If you have any more questions, please continue to ask.

P.S. I'm very happy to hear that you have won this battle. Now to get your life back eh.

One day at a time, always believing. The answers will come to me when they are meant to. I feel my Dr. loaning me the Proteus is one of those answers.

[Survivor]

Hi again Marisa

Well, I made a mess of my reply by trying to use the Quote option & obviously didn't do it right. Your remarks are not highlighted, so it makes for tough reading for you. My appologies. Hope it makes sense to you.

[Andy]

Hi there;

I edited your post to add the quotes where I think you wanted them.

Just surround each paragraph that you'd like to quote with
[ quote ]
and then end with
[ /quote ] (without the spaces between the [ and the word quote or /quote)

If you go back and "edit" your post, you'll see how the quotes look.

Another way to do it is to highlight the paragraph and click on the button at the top of the editor window that looks like a caption bubble. Hover your mouse over the various tools above the editor window and a description of what each one does will pop up before you click it.

-Andy.

[Marisa]

I usually go to bed around 11:30 or midnight.

Nothing at all other than using the Proteus.

I haven't tried getting up. I think my husband would not be impressed. He is a very light sleeper & for sure I would wake him up. I usually fall back to sleep & wake up later than normal to get my 8 hours. So, sleep from 1200 - 0400 & then from 0600-1000. I feel dragged out for the rest of the day.

You are doing exactly what I would recommend with the Proteus. As to why you are waking up after 4 hours of sleep likely has something to do with your body being so out of whack from all the chemo drugs.

Does it happen all of the time or just sometimes?

THAT was really interesting to watch. They say....when you change the way you look at things, you change the things you look at. So, instead of focusing on the feeling of anxiety, knowing where it could lead to left unattended, I would be concentrating on throwing the ball. I like that!! Definietely worth a try!!!

Please let me know how that works for you. NLP is very powerful stuff.

Thanks for the offer of the vegan drinks, but like you....bleh! :>) My Dr. has told me these drugs I have taken can cause strong mood swings from a day to day basis. So, some days I wake up & it is all I can do to get out of bed. I cannot seem to will myself to overcome inertia. Everything feels like a mountain to climb. I do very little. That leads to guilt & that to a depression. Then another day I wake up & I am just fine. It's the days that I just described that I would love to try to alter my brain pattern. There doesn't seem any reason to be tired. After a full blown panic attack, the fatigue is similar to that experienced by epileptics. It is draining to go through a panic attack.....a full blown one. No fun at all. So, it is two different circumstances.

How long has it been since you finished chemo? I'm sure it takes the body a bit of time to recover, especially if the chemo was really tough on you. Are you in a position where you can go back to bed and get lots of rest? (As opposed to having to go to work?). If you are able to go back to bed, then listen to your body and get more rest. If you allow your body the time it needs to heal, then the process will take less time.

I can appreciate the feelings of guilt and depression, which probably result from frustration of your desire to be better and your body taking longer than you want it to. That really doesn't sound like a fun way to motivate yourself. I have an alternative that may give you better results and less emotional pain.

Rule 1: You must become aware of your self talk and anytime you catch yourself giving yourself a negative message, you will change the message to a positive one. In doing this, not only are you reprogramming your mind to be more goal orientated, you are also retraining your mind to be more humane towards yourself. The mind always sets it's programs in accordance with the messages you give it so if you are telling yourself sad, negative or mean things ... your result will be guilt and depression. The only way to permanantly change this is to retrain your mind to think more positive and to go towards what you want instead of beating yourself up for what you didn't achieve.

The reason that you are not achieving what you want to achieve is likely that you are setting the goal at a higher level than you are capable of achieving. You can get to where you want, but you need to break it down into more achievable chunks.

So. Smaller steps. Set smaller, acheivable goals. It can be something simple like a list of five things that you want to accomplish in a day. For example: 1. Take a shower 2. Do one puzzle (any kind) or play a game of scrabble (this is to help get your brain back working). 3. Do three laps around the house and four toe touching. 4. Write down three positive statements about yourself. 5. Do a 15 to 25 minute Proteus session in Alpha (P 33 for example).

If it takes you all day to do these things, then it takes all day. If you give yourself a goal to achieve that you can achieve, you will feel better about yourself because you know that you are working towards the bigger goal of getting better.

Brain entrainment with a AVS machine is one tool but it's not the only tool you need. You need a plan & the resources to make that plan work.

Thank you so very much. Poor man has been through a lot. Most people focus one the person going through the cancer & chemo. I often think it is more difficult for the person who is the caretaker. To watch the one they love go through this & feel so helpless & want so badly to make it go away. He told me he had to learn to give up the control he never had in the first place! So true!!

I think both sides have tough obstacles to overcome. Your mood affects your husband and vice versa, which is another reason to keep the thoughts positive. Positive meaning ... what you can do, what you want to do and if it's something you can't do or fail to do, then the thought needs to be ...okay, back to the drawing board ..what's another way to get there or I will take another run at it tomorrow. Trust me - you will feel better.

The Procyon seemed easier to connect to a PC via the USB cable. I don't have a serial port & from what I have read on the forum, it can be quite the challenge finding the right serial/usb cable that can work. You pay a fair amount for a good serial/usb cable so that takes care of some of the cost of the Procyon doesn't it??

I'm sorry I have no idea how much the cables cost. If you shop around, you may find a reasonably priced one. However, if you do buy a Procyon, you can rest assured that you are getting good value for your money.

One day at a time, always believing. The answers will come to me when they are meant to. I feel my Dr. loaning me the Proteus is one of those answers.

Exactly.

There are all kinds of resources here for you if needed. There are a great bunch of people here on the forum with a variety of skills and knowledge.

M.

[Survivor]

Hi Marisa

The waking up after 4 hours of sleep has only started to happen since using the Proteus. I decided to do something different last night & used the Release the Day program....# 32. Slept like a log for 8 straight hours & never woke a single time.


I have been finished with chemo for 8 months now. My oncologist told me that it takes the body one full month without chemo for every month ON chemo to properly recover. So, that means somewhere around Christmas I should be back to normal. I was on chemo for an extremely long time.


Re Rule 1......I live by that. Watch your thoughts, they become your words. Watch your words, they become your actions. Watch you actions, they become your destiny!!! I am a person whose cup is 3/4 full. I got beat up by chemo pretty darned good, but I kept my spirits up & always knew I would beat it. Interestingly enough, it is after the chemo is finished that is more tough to adjust to. The mind seems to believe that with the end of chemo, all should be back to normal. I look normal. People treat me like I am normal, so why aren't I normal. Acceptance is the key. Most days I am ok, but it is a constant struggle & there are days when my suit of armour slides a bit.


Smaller steps you say........have you been talking to my husband??? :>)


We have a good plan of attack. We recently bought a 42 foot Krogen.... a Trawler type boat. We are going to Alaska this summer....just the two of us & our 2 Golden Retrievers. Leaving the decisions behind, the computers, the phones. Just going to cruise slowly, watch the whales & dolphins & the glorious sunsets. I cannot think of a better way to heal that to be in constant touch with the wonders of nature & my 3 favorite people. Dogs are people too. I see your photo. You would understand.:>)


I am curious about your suggestion of using program #33....which falls into the Visualisaton catagory. I would have thought one from the Energizing catagory. Let me know why it is a better choice, if you will, to go with the #33.

As I said before, I have no knowledge of any of this. I have learned a lot from reading the forum, but it is tough to absorb so much new information & process it. I still don't understand why some programs travel though different brain waves & some don't even though the program falls into the same catagory. Is there any literature I can read, that would be on an introductory level, that would help me understand why the different fluctuations in the Hz of the waves & some other very basic information??

Thanks again for your support. It is enormously appreciated.

[Marisa]

Hi Marisa

The waking up after 4 hours of sleep has only started to happen since using the Proteus. I decided to do something different last night & used the Release the Day program....# 32. Slept like a log for 8 straight hours & never woke a single time.

Awesome! It looks like you resolved the problem. Some programs affect us differently than others.

I have been finished with chemo for 8 months now. My oncologist told me that it takes the body one full month without chemo for every month ON chemo to properly recover. So, that means somewhere around Christmas I should be back to normal. I was on chemo for an extremely long time.

So you are on your way and it does take time so maybe you want to be a little less hard on yourself on days when you need to just take it easy.

Re Rule 1......I live by that. Watch your thoughts, they become your words. Watch your words, they become your actions. Watch you actions, they become your destiny!!! I am a person whose cup is 3/4 full. I got beat up by chemo pretty darned good, but I kept my spirits up & always knew I would beat it. Interestingly enough, it is after the chemo is finished that is more tough to adjust to. The mind seems to believe that with the end of chemo, all should be back to normal. I look normal. People treat me like I am normal, so why aren't I normal. Acceptance is the key. Most days I am ok, but it is a constant struggle & there are days when my suit of armour slides a bit.

That's understandable. I have Fibromylgia and I know that as soon as my attitude seems to suck, it's an indication that my energy level is low and I need to take it easy that day. I can totally relate to what you are saying because my mind often wants to do more than my body can handle. It's a bit of a life style change but the adjusted life style can be just as good if not better than the old life.

Smaller steps you say........have you been talking to my husband??? :>)

LOL I've traveled along the same path that he has. :-)

We have a good plan of attack. We recently bought a 42 foot Krogen.... a Trawler type boat. We are going to Alaska this summer....just the two of us & our 2 Golden Retrievers. Leaving the decisions behind, the computers, the phones. Just going to cruise slowly, watch the whales & dolphins & the glorious sunsets. I cannot think of a better way to heal that to be in constant touch with the wonders of nature & my 3 favorite people. Dogs are people too. I see your photo. You would understand.:>)

NICE!! Sounds wonderful. Yes, I definitely understand about the animal thing. I've got a dog (Belgian Tervuren), a raven, two starlings and a flock of pigeons ... okay and a husband (all which are great companions).

I am curious about your suggestion of using program #33....which falls into the Visualisaton catagory. I would have thought one from the Energizing catagory. Let me know why it is a better choice, if you will, to go with the #33.

Program 33 is mostly an alpha based program and alpha is a group of brain wave frequencies that are associated with feeling happy, content and relaxed. It's also associated with learning, creativity and positive thinking. As you've discovered, some programs work better on some people while others get better results with other programs. So try both and see which one works best for you.

As I said before, I have no knowledge of any of this. I have learned a lot from reading the forum, but it is tough to absorb so much new information & process it.

You certainly are in the right place. It is a lot of information to wrap your head around. In truth, there is only a little bit of information that you need to know to understand the basic principles of BWE.

I still don't understand why some programs travel though different brain waves & some don't even though the program falls into the same catagory. Is there any literature I can read, that would be on an introductory level, that would help me understand why the different fluctuations in the Hz of the waves & some other very basic information??

Each group of frequencies are associated with various characteristics or states of mind. Alpha for example, is associated with a relaxed state of mind as well as the mind being creative and it being a good state for learning. It seems like three separate states but they are actually all one state. When alpha is the dominant brain wave, you feel relaxed and good about the world. Well that state of mind (feeling relaxed) is also the best state of mind to learn new things and when you are relaxed, you are also more creative. If you add some Theta to the program, you will shift slightly into a more relaxed state and a really, really relaxed state is associated with memory processing as well as hypnosis. If you add some SMR (low Beta) to the program, you can coax the mind into being more awake and alert which is more conducive to mental processing.

Does this make sense? If it doesn't answer your question, please keep asking and I'll explain it further. I've also attached a document to this message that you can print out and read. It gives you a basic over view of how this all works.

Thanks again for your support. It is enormously appreciated.

It is my pleasure!

M.

[Survivor]

Hi Marisa

I am working my way through the attachment. It is MOST helpful. For now, I am doing a lot of experimenting with the various programs. I tried one of the ones that is just for entertainment. WOW. What a light show!! I loved it. I used it in the middle of a day once, just for a time out for me. Sort of like taking the dogs out to the farm fields & letting them run & smell.....it was just pure entertainment time for me. :>) I will continue to read & learn & experiment. I'm sure I will be back to you at some time in the future as I grow more adventurous & maybe try to make my own programs. Who knows where this will all lead. In the mean time, stay healthy & thank you so very much for everything.

[Marisa]

My Pleasure! Your Procyon has begun it's journey to you.

M.