Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 32

Thread: Beginner questions

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,004
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Beginner questions

    Just to keep things simple and easy. Here's a link to where the Procyon Session description can be downloaded.

    http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...=3985#post3985

    M.
    Marisa Broughton, MCHT, MNLP
    Canadian Distributor for Mindplace
    http://www.ayrmetes.com

    Hey, if someone makes a good post, don't forget to click http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...ations-40b.png at the bottom of their post to add to their reputation!

  2. Default Re: Beginner questions

    More beginner questions!

    I tend to use the meditative/tranquility programmes, as that's
    what I bought the machine for.

    However, as I don't seem to be seeing many light effects, I seem
    to just nod off. Am I concentrating too much on these programmes?
    I try to relax my eyes as much as possible, letting the colours arise, but I can't retain my focus and just drop into sleep.

    The sleep thing doesn't bother me too much, it's just that when I wake up (often after the programme is long finished) I'm like a bear with a sore bum. I use a hard back chair, not very comfortable, sitting up straight.
    I'd sit in the cross legged position on the ground but a knee injury prevents me from doing so for more than five minutes.

    Any suggestions on programmes i could try?

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Otaki Beach, New Zealand
    Posts
    435

    Default Re: Beginner questions

    Hi Mack,

    A couple of things I might offer...

    Firstly, don't "look" or "focus" at all. "Seeing" is completely unnecessary for the purpose of the light pulses stimulating your mind. Once achieved the sensation will be of total illumination with all sorts of colors and patterns dancing around, often with little apparent relationship to the actual colors of the LEDs.

    Secondly, self-flagellation is strictly optional. I do all of my sessions either comfortably lying in my bed or in a comfortable recliner chair. I understand that some schools of thought suggest that conquest of the mind demands conquest of the body, but I have found the more gentle strategy perfectly effective for my needs. I say this after spending many years untangling cramps and restoring bloodflow from prolonged asana.

    Any theta/delta session is likely to induce sleep if sleep is lacking. If you are going to sleep it is because your body has decided it would benefit more from sleep than meditation. Follow the signs that your body and mind give, and you will be following the path of least resistance, and results will follow far more readily than if you try to force your way.

    Cheers,
    Craig

  4. Default Re: Beginner questions

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigT View Post
    Firstly, don't "look" or "focus" at all. "Seeing" is completely unnecessary for the purpose of the light pulses stimulating your mind. Once achieved the sensation will be of total illumination with all sorts of colors and patterns dancing around, often with little apparent relationship to the actual colors of the LEDs.
    Many thanks again Craig,

    Another very useful response. In relation to the above quote,
    when you say 'achieved', do you mean when you have learnt
    how not to 'focus' or 'look' at all? This is something I think I
    have to practice, not doing anything. I can feel myself straining
    automatically sometimes to try and 'see' colours. Sometimes it's
    hard not to do anything!

    I know what you mean about 'conquest of the body'. I once did
    a ten day silent retreat with 14 hours cross legged meditation a day.
    I sometimes felt I was meditating 'in spite' of the pain I was feeling.

    Think I'm gonna stick on some music, try that with the Procyon.

    Cheers,
    Mack

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Otaki Beach, New Zealand
    Posts
    435

    Default Re: Beginner questions

    Mack,

    Yes, it's very much a matter of practice, but as we're so used to practising at 'doing' something, practising 'not doing' something is a bit of a leap.

    I mentioned in another thread that both Lori and I had been enjoying an audio session with random light show and that both of us had failed to notice when the lights ended and the audio kept going. Basically, if you're paying enough attention to the lights to actually 'know' if flashing or not, you're paying too much attention.

    I'm making a distinction between conscious awareness where you deliberately interrogate your sense of sight, as opposed to what might be called peripheral awareness, where nothing external is the focus of attention but everything is 'there'. I find I'm then free to look at thoughts without distraction. I remain certain, however, that should a grizzly bear enter the room (unlikely in New Zealand), my autonomous systems would draw it to my attention.

    Yup, if brainwave entrainment involved any sort of hard work or suffering, I would have quit it long ago. It's tough enough making a go of it in the outer world, without making inner world journeying a chore.

    Cheers,
    Craig

  6. Default Re: Beginner questions

    Hi again,

    Have had the machine a few months ago and thought I'd give
    a quick update.

    It still feels like I'm doing something wrong. On a couple of occasions
    early on I did feel some benefit, but it quickly faded. It's become something of an effort to use the machine, a fairly joyless experience.
    Last time I used a relaxation programme, as I suffer from anxiety/depression and found it actually counterproductive, as it made
    me quite edgy and fidgety.

    I really want to get the best out of the machine but feel that it's just not happening. I've cut my usage down to a couple of half hours a week.
    Sorry for such a negative post, but it's just incredibly frustrating when you read a lot of the great experiences people are having

    Mack

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Otaki Beach, New Zealand
    Posts
    435

    Default Re: Beginner questions

    Quote Originally Posted by MackTheFinger View Post
    Hi again,

    Have had the machine a few months ago and thought I'd give
    a quick update.

    It still feels like I'm doing something wrong. On a couple of occasions
    early on I did feel some benefit, but it quickly faded. It's become something of an effort to use the machine, a fairly joyless experience.
    Last time I used a relaxation programme, as I suffer from anxiety/depression and found it actually counterproductive, as it made
    me quite edgy and fidgety.

    I really want to get the best out of the machine but feel that it's just not happening. I've cut my usage down to a couple of half hours a week.
    Sorry for such a negative post, but it's just incredibly frustrating when you read a lot of the great experiences people are having

    Mack
    Hiya Mack,

    That's a sad tale, and hopefully one we can turn around.

    First point, although anxiety and depression get lumped together in conversation, they are very different animals.

    Depression responds well to beta sessions, whilst anxiety responds well to alpha. Unfortunately depression can be worsened by alpha, and anxiety can be induced or worsened by beta. So it becomes very important to recognise exactly which of the two is influencing you at any given moment, because, in my experience (and I have recovered from quite serious issues with both) they can rarely occur at the same time.

    The easy way to check is to start on a beta session - if you start to feel the sensations of anxiety, switch off immediately, and change to an alpha session - you should quickly start to feel calmer.

    If you decide to use an alpha session, and your mood is unchanged, or begins to become darker, change immediately to a beta session and you should notice a difference.

    Another tip to bring a new life to your Proteus experience is to purchase Transparent Corp's Neuroprogrammer or Mind Workstation. The Proteus is an excellent AudioStrobe decoder and works superbly with NP or MWS. These programs are top-of-class entrainment tools, providing superb entrainment programs to meet a wide variety of needs. They have particularly effective depression and anxiety sessions. Both are highly, and reasonably simply, programmable. Basically they provide the audio content, either directly from a computer, or after exporting to an MP3 player, while the Proteus decodes the light signals and gives you the visual component. NP is relatively inexpensive and easy to use, MWS can be quite costly, but has almost boundless capabilites. Highly recommended!!!

    Between mind-machines and NP/MWS I clock up in excess of 4 hours entrainment exposure a day - have done so for a year or so, and I'm not even thinking about being bored with it

    Cheers,
    Craig

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,004
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Beginner questions

    Hi Mack,

    Quote Originally Posted by MackTheFinger View Post
    Hi again,

    It still feels like I'm doing something wrong. On a couple of occasions
    early on I did feel some benefit, but it quickly faded. It's become something of an effort to use the machine, a fairly joyless experience.
    Last time I used a relaxation programme, as I suffer from anxiety/depression and found it actually counterproductive, as it made
    me quite edgy and fidgety.
    Which program did you use that resulted in the edgy feeling? I may have an alternate suggestion.

    If a session leaves you feeling edgy, then you would do better with a session that is more Alpha/Theta related.

    Keep in mind that the machine can only coax your brainwaves into a certain state. As you've noticed, just because you can get there - doesn't necessarily mean that you will stay there as our brainwaves are a reflection of our state of mind. Our state of mind is a reflection of our thoughts. It's a bit of a circular argument as our brainwaves affect our thoughts and our thoughts affect our brainwaves. Fortunately there are things we can do to affect both.

    So, if you are in a depressed or anxious state of mind when you go into a session, it's not a given that you will come out of it feeling great. You may come out feeling a bit better or you may not notice the effect at all (it may be subtle but not enough).

    While using an AVS machine is helpful for these conditions, it's also essential to have some other tools to use in addition to your session. The idea is to distract your mind and focus on something other than the way you are feeling.

    Here is a list of things that can help change your state (current mood):
    1. Physical exercise - releases endorphins. Also some people when they get stuck, find that by moving around - their mind begins to function better.
    2. Listen to some upbeat music. Music that makes you want to sing along to it.
    3. Change your body position. Stand up - stretch and look up. It's an NLP thing.
    4. Engage your brain in some busy work: Play scrabble, do a puzzle, paint something, repair something - anything that gets you to focus on the task at hand. When we do this, it allows our brain to relax and self adjust.
    5. Have sex - more release of endorphins.
    6. If you are feeling anxious - toss a ball from hand to hand. NLP thing.
    7. If you are feeling depressed - be very aware of your posture and avoid slouching and looking down. You'll notice that it's difficult to feel bad (or anything) when you are looking up. NLP thing.
    8. Watch some comedy. A sense of humor is wonderful therapy.
    9. Do some Yoga or Tai Chi
    10. Surprise a friend, neighbor or family member with an act of kindness. Switch your focus to someone else and making them happy - your mood will follow.

    Anxiety and depression are best treated with a multi-attack approach. It's really important to learn how to soothe yourself, calm your self down when anxiety begins to arise. Distraction and redirection are the key elements to dealing successfully with depression and anxiety in the long run.

    These disorders are also affected by our biochemistry and using the machine is one tool that can be helpful to change that. Other considerations are diet (what we eat affects how we feel) and medication (some medications can affect mood -- for example, some allergy medication can cause anxiety).


    I really want to get the best out of the machine but feel that it's just not happening. I've cut my usage down to a couple of half hours a week.
    Sorry for such a negative post, but it's just incredibly frustrating when you read a lot of the great experiences people are having
    I can appreciate your frustration and hopefully some of the suggestions will help. If you want more ideas or information on how to change your mind (in addition to use of the machine) ... this is a good place for you and I (and others) can help you.

    M.
    Marisa Broughton, MCHT, MNLP
    Canadian Distributor for Mindplace
    http://www.ayrmetes.com

    Hey, if someone makes a good post, don't forget to click http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...ations-40b.png at the bottom of their post to add to their reputation!

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,004
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: Beginner questions

    Hi Craig,

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigT View Post
    First point, although anxiety and depression get lumped together in conversation, they are very different animals.
    I agree and disagree.

    These disorders do go hand in hand as many people who suffer from depression also have problems with anxiety. Sometimes the cause of these disorders or the exacerbation of them is due to a "thought virus" - a faulty thinking program. In this case, the treatment of depression will vary from the treatment of anxiety.

    Biochemically: Depression is also caused by a deficiency in the neurotransmitters: norepinephrine, dopamine and/or serotonin. People who have depression, also tend to have wacky neuroendocrine systems affecting cortisol and adrenaline release (which brings in the anxiety portion of the disorder).

    Depression responds well to beta sessions, whilst anxiety responds well to alpha. Unfortunately depression can be worsened by alpha, and anxiety can be induced or worsened by beta. So it becomes very important to recognize exactly which of the two is influencing you at any given moment, because, in my experience (and I have recovered from quite serious issues with both) they can rarely occur at the same time.
    I respectfully disagree with your statement that depression can be worsened by alpha. In all of the research and books that I have come across on the subject of EEG/Neurofeedback etc., all of them recommend Alpha/SMR brainwave training for depression. I have never seen a reference that states that Alpha is detrimental treatment of depression.

    While Alpha may not cure depression, it does put the person in a good state of mind to deal with issues such as the cause of depression. "When we are able to add alpha to our brainwave patterns, we often find the explanation for certain actions and attitudes we have exhibited." (High Performance Mind, pg. 17).

    In support of your statement regarding Beta and depression - SMR frequencies 12- 15 htz have been reported to work best.

    Any higher than that, while good for increased attention and alertness (15-18 htz), may be too much for someone who feeling anxious as well as depressed.

    The easy way to check is to start on a beta session - if you start to feel the sensations of anxiety, switch off immediately, and change to an alpha session - you should quickly start to feel calmer.

    If you decide to use an alpha session, and your mood is unchanged, or begins to become darker, change immediately to a beta session and you should notice a difference.
    One thing to keep in mind is that many programs are a mixture of frequencies including Alpha/Theta or Alpha/SMR. Theta (and low Alpha) can sometimes open the mind up to things once forgotten. On the plus side, it's good for memory and the negative side, it can unlock repressed memories and the feelings that went with them. I say "can" ... doesn't mean it will, but it can. Perhaps this is what you were referring to when you said that Alpha can be detrimental to depression?

    M.
    Marisa Broughton, MCHT, MNLP
    Canadian Distributor for Mindplace
    http://www.ayrmetes.com

    Hey, if someone makes a good post, don't forget to click http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...ations-40b.png at the bottom of their post to add to their reputation!

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Otaki Beach, New Zealand
    Posts
    435

    Default Re: Beginner questions

    Hi Marisa,

    No need to 'respectfully' disagree - you're welcome to just plain disagree

    My information is derived from Transparent, my own experience, and the results of other's I've shared entrainment with. I've noted a wide variety of results, so I fully concede that what is so for one, may not be so for another.

    Depression is associated with excess alpha, particularly in the left hemisphere, and so asymmetrical sessions that offer SMR/beta to the right ear and alpha to the left ear can be highly beneficial.

    I certainly agree that low beta (SMR) is a good place to start for depression.

    Cheers,
    Craig
    Last edited by CraigT; 03-31-2009 at 11:54 AM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Audio mixing questions
    By el1zav3ta in forum Procyon
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 09-25-2008, 05:04 PM
  2. L/R Channel Questions
    By Mutable in forum Proteus
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-17-2008, 04:34 PM
  3. Replies: 12
    Last Post: 05-19-2008, 10:46 AM
  4. Pre-Purchase Questions
    By Tyler in forum Procyon
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-10-2007, 08:04 AM
  5. Questions about products and technology
    By frey in forum The Mind Place
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-31-2007, 11:40 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •