Getting Started

[fromconcept]

Hi,

So I have my Procyon, but zero experience of the technology or what to expect. I did sessions 1, 2 and 49, and also played some audio strobe music. Now I am wondering how to get started. I didnt really know what to expect, and still dont really know. As a meditator, this was my original reason for purchasing. Has anyone got any tips on how to get the best experience? One thing that I wondered is, if I am trying to seek some stillness, how can I achieve that with the tones rattling in m ear?

Thanks,

Nick.

[Marisa]

Hi Nick,

Hi,

So I have my Procyon, but zero experience of the technology or what to expect. I did sessions 1, 2 and 49, and also played some audio strobe music. Now I am wondering how to get started. I didnt really know what to expect, and still dont really know. As a meditator, this was my original reason for purchasing. Has anyone got any tips on how to get the best experience? One thing that I wondered is, if I am trying to seek some stillness, how can I achieve that with the tones rattling in m ear?

Thanks,

Nick.

What you want for meditation is a session that is Theta (maybe with some Alpha) based. Any of the "Tranquility" programs should be good. If those are too energizing, you may want to try the "Night Voyage" programs which are more Theta based. I don't usually recommend the Night Voyage program because it has a tendency to put the person to sleep and that's a bit deeper than you want to go.

All the programs except for Night Voyage will ramp back up to Beta at the end so that you will be in a more alert state when the session is over. With the Night Voyage programs, you may have to do a "concentration" session (P 6) or one of the Quick Energy programs.

Ideally the session will coax your brain into a Theta state where you can experience the effects of deep meditation. If the tones are annoying you, you can turn them down low or mix in some music or just use the light frames. Normally, you will get use to the tones and not really notice them after a while but everyone is different.

Other programs that you may really like are "Regeneration" P17 or "Deep Tranquility" P22.

Keeping your eyes closed, just let your eyes follow the lights if they want to or look in any direction. The idea is to relax and in doing so you want to just let your mind and eyes drift.

Hope this helps.

M.

[fromconcept]

Hi Marisa,

Thanks for your advice. My questions herein come from a place of inquiry, and are respectfully presented. I in no way wish to suggest anything about the Procyon - I just seek clarification.

I didnt get chance to check my mails, so eventually sat down and went with P20 I think. I used it with the glasses and the tones, and it was an interesting experience. I felt chilled at the end, and well relaxed. However from a proper meditation perspective, thats not the objective - in a non-analytical meditation the goal is concentration/awareness.

Regarding concentration meditation, I found the lights more of a distraction than an aid, but maybe this will change with use. If perpetual awareness and returning to the breath is the goal, I found the lights seeking my attention ad inifinitum. At this stage I am struggling to see how the two principles marry up, and wonder what other peoples experience is around this aspect? Do people ever resort ti just using the tones? If so, are the glasses/lights a help or not?

Best regards,

Nick.

[Marisa]

Hi Nick,

Hi Marisa,

Thanks for your advice. My questions herein come from a place of inquiry, and are respectfully presented. I in no way wish to suggest anything about the Procyon - I just seek clarification.

I didnt get chance to check my mails, so eventually sat down and went with P20 I think. I used it with the glasses and the tones, and it was an interesting experience. I felt chilled at the end, and well relaxed. However from a proper meditation perspective, thats not the objective - in a non-analytical meditation the goal is concentration/awareness.

Regarding concentration meditation, I found the lights more of a distraction than an aid, but maybe this will change with use. If perpetual awareness and returning to the breath is the goal, I found the lights seeking my attention ad inifinitum. At this stage I am struggling to see how the two principles marry up, and wonder what other peoples experience is around this aspect? Do people ever resort ti just using the tones? If so, are the glasses/lights a help or not?

Best regards,

Nick.

I'm going to forward this message to my friend Bob who is an experienced meditator and has used the Procyon. Because of his experience with mediation, I think he may have better insight into what may work even better for you than what I can offer.

M.

[Bob]

Hi fromconcept,
The results of using long term meditation training are reported to be the ability to use both brain hemispheres in balance and to become skilled in reaching a particular state (beta, alpha, theta, delta) at will or as a result of circumstances, in normal life.

Note that although there is a dominant state, there are brainwave patterns occurring in smaller amounts at the same time. This would be why you can for example be in a theta dominant 'sleep' state whilst remaining conscious. (My view is that training the correct balance in these smaller states is essential.)

In traditional meditation progress is made by focusing attention on one thing (e.g. breathing) and with time and training the mind will still; this being accepted as indication of progress.

The entrainment route uses external stimulus to 'force' the states observed in skilled meditation. with the results that the mind learns to establish these patterns easily and also that the neural pathways associated with these states develop (over a period of some months; way faster than with the traditional route).

If you use entrainment for meditation, you are usually forcing a state that is deeper than you are normally capable of achieving using traditional technique. You should not be surprised if you feel some stress as the new state will require some measure of neural path development. Things do quieten somewhat after a while.

I have the personal view that any entrainment that promotes hemisphere balance is useful as this is training towards the outcome of meditation, and thus cultivates the correct 'mindset'.

Procyon program 19 (deep meditation) works well but is lengthy if you are not yet 'configured' for AVS. 14 (mind sauna) may be a better intro for some weeks. The training occurs without needing the intense focus that you (and I) are more familiar with.
I personally do not see the ramping up that is included at the end of the AVS sessions is necessary though.

There is also a relaxation aspect talked about in the AVS area that you may find disquieting if you have a Yoga, Zen or martial arts background. (I personally do not relate meditation with relaxation.) I also find that a traditional meditation posture is very relevant.

I much like the quiet mind result from meditation as the effects can pervade for hours. I have good results in doing this using the Immrama Focus binaural beat audio www.immrama.org (and apologies to Mindplace for promoting other technology; I'll write a Procyon surrogate once I get my head around what is happening here). This route is however slow acting. I've found that it can be greatly increased in speed of effect by using the Procyon as a 15--20 minute intro (I use mind art sessions and just enjoy the show).

In summary I'd suggest approaching meditation as a tool for developing full brain capability and you can do much of the pre-conditioning very rapidly using AVS. There is a far more general and extensive world out there under the name of NLP. Perhaps my friend Marisa would like to explain a little further or post some links. I'm only just starting to get familiar with this area but it has direct relevance to both meditation and AVS.

Hope you find this helpful and please PM me if you see further discussion as useful.
Regards,
Bob

[Marisa]

I hope that you both continue this conversation publicly as there are many people who are interested in this subject and likely have similar questions. If the subject becomes just about meditation, I (or you) will move the conversation over to the Mindplace area.

Thanks Bob for your detailed answer and thanks FromConcept for bringing up the question.

M.

[fromconcept]

Hi Bob (thanks Marisa for passing this message on),

Thanks for your reply - I have found it very helpful.

Regarding the help in creating neural pathways, would it be correct to assume that once a good period of use with AVS has been established, one should more easily attain the same meditative state achieved when using AVS? That is, the neural pathways are established well enough to achieve them without the need for AVS?

I would agree with you also, that from my own experience, "ramping up" is not required (or indeed desired), and relaxation and meditation are not the same thing. Personally I practice a mixture of LamRim and Dzogchen meditations, sometimes practicing path of concentration followed by inquiry, and other times just seekng deep concrentration.

Also thanks for the complimentary suggestion of immrama, I will check out that out.

I am intrigued to learn more about the NLP and its relevance to AVS, and specifically meditation. I do know NLP as an arm-chair enthusiast.

Bob, I am going to focus on the Mind Sauna (14) for my sessions for the next couple of weeks and will provide feedback/questions should they arise.

Many thanks,

Nick.

[Marisa]

Hi Nick,

I would agree with you also, that from my own experience, "ramping up" is not required (or indeed desired), and relaxation and meditation are not the same thing.

You do realize that you can edit any program so that it doesn't ramp up at the end?

I am intrigued to learn more about the NLP and its relevance to AVS, and specifically meditation. I do know NLP as an arm-chair enthusiast.

Perhaps you could start a discussion or ask a question on the topic in the Mindplace section?

M.