gamma/hyper gamma

[Marisa]

Hi Moff,
I have to take issue with Marisa over this.

Truth is, she is a really good internet friend and we are both working to align her very strong background in this area with my direct experiences that are not quite synchronised.

Actually the only thing we are not agreeing on is the use of Delta waves. I maintain that the Delta range (.5 to 3 Hz) is associated with sleep, unconscious processing and healing. I don't see any use for it in meditation or attaining higher brain states (other than the benefits to the brain that sleep provide).



M.

[Bob]

BOB thanks for sharing your knowledge with me i will give that pdf a good look over Allan Watts i see is mentioned in the opening pages (well his name) what a bloke.I understand that Gamma is a high level frequency and you could associate its effects with over use of Beta stressful that is.I only pursued this idea as i found a few researches where "scientists" cough! have measured brainwave freq in Buddhist monks revealing they enter into the Gamma states and higher.Anyway as i posted earlier i also found out that these Gamma states ride on the back of the Epsillon range have you any expierience or knowledge of this range effects etc 05 htz and below.I have also used the first Awakening set of Holosync and found it resurfaced alot of buried stuff in my subconscious. Thanks again for your reply and all the best sincerely Adrian (moff).

Hi Adrian,
If you appreciate Mr Watts then you should also like Thomas Merton's earlier wittings on Zen.
I have well worn copies of DT Suzuki's English publications and there are some really well expressed essays in the Soto Master Shinru Suzuki's little book. All worth reading through. (I'm not able to declare that I am Buddhist, although observation of my approach to life would match well
)

I'm pleased to hear that you are familiar with Holosync. It stirs up the unconscious which is what happens with traditional meditation (but at a much slower pace). Marisa has the very correct view that we have no idea what is happening when we use this. I find that Holosync and similar leave me really focussed and fiercely aware of the outside world but with a detached viewpoint. Maybe I'm generating some gamma...
The Procyon seems a really versatile tool for generating stimulus to investigate this area. We have binaural sound plus three independent colour channels all with adjustable modulation. I suggest using strong stimulus from one main domain as this reflects the observed patterns from studies but suspect that the balance in relation to the other stimulus is important also.

Also worth mentioning here (and complementary to Robert's reply) is that audio has an effect on a much smaller and not completely similar brain region to visual stimulus. The effects (both perceived and longterm) are likely to differ.

Meditation raises stress threshold by a large amount given time. If you find Gamma stressful at present you may find that this changes with time, so maybe try again after some months.

I'm really pleased that this topic is expanding into diverse areas driven by people with open but investigative minds. Thanks for you input (and much appreciation intended to Marisa for provoking me to explain clearly what the hell I'm on about )
Bob

[hseaver]

Hi Adrian,
If you appreciate Mr Watts then you should also like Thomas Merton's earlier wittings on Zen.
I have well worn copies of DT Suzuki's English publications and there are some really well expressed essays in the Soto Master Shinru Suzuki's little book. All worth reading through. (I'm not able to declare that I am Buddhist, although observation of my approach to life would match well
)

I

You might find the book "Zen and the Brain" quite interesting and informative. It's by James Austin, M.D., a neuroscientist and long time Zen practioner. Huge book, over 800 pages, MIT Press. Fascinating.
Also, "The Mindful Brain" by Daniel Siegel, M.D. And then, of course, the Jon Kabbat-Zinn books on mindfulness meditation.
I've been practicing yoga for over ten years, meditating about as long (but not consistently) and am now reading the Jon Kabbat-Zinn stuff and attempting to practice mindfulness meditation. I say attempting, because it seems quite different from the meditation I'm used to doing, which, although it starts off fairly "mindful" -- after 30-60 minutes of yoga, which is pretty mindful, but it then seems to me that what I'm doing in my meditation is actually self-hypnosis, rather than the type of meditation Kabbat-Zinn is teaching.

[hseaver]

Hello, all--

There has been some relatively recent publications which indicate that long-term meditation can increase gamma synchrony; gamma oscillations are though by some researchers to allow oscillating networks in the brain to 'bind' together for brief periods of time.

One of these studies can be accessed here:

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/101/46/16369

Just click the "PDF" link to view the paper.

Although it's not possible to use binaural beats to increase gamma synchrony, it could be possible to use flickering light to do so, and I hope that some intrepid researchers are studying this now.

-Robert

I'm not disputing you on this, but I recently got a CD produced by Dr. Jeffry Thompson, called "Gamma Meditation System". The booklet that comes with it talks (briefly) on some of the same stuff in the paper you mention. I haven't listened to the CD enough to really give it a good test. He says "the brainwave entrainment pulses woven into the Gamma Meditation System are at a frequency of 40 Hz."

[Andy]

"the brainwave entrainment pulses woven into the Gamma Meditation System are at a frequency of 40 Hz."

Hey hseaver;
I didn't read the article, but I'm wondering if he was talking about "binaural beats"? Seems to me that's all Robert is saying is that binaurals can't be done at that high a frequency, but certainly using lights or other methods may work.

"Although it's not possible to use binaural beats to increase gamma synchrony, it could be possible to use flickering light to do so, and I hope that some intrepid researchers are studying this now."

I'm stepping out of my element here, but thought I'd ask that question...


-Andy.

[hseaver]

Hey hseaver;
I didn't read the article, but I'm wondering if he was talking about "binaural beats"? Seems to me that's all Robert is saying is that binaurals can't be done at that high a frequency, but certainly using lights or other methods may work.
.

Well, that's what I wondering too. He never calls it "binaural beats", but talks about "acoustic brainwave entrainment", and says: "Research has shown that specific states of consciousness can be induced through hearing sound pulses that match the brainwave frequency of that particular state of mind. Based on this scientifically tested principle, inaudible sound frequency patterns are woven into every soundtrack on Gamma Meditation System recording. When your brain senses these hidden pulses, your brainwaves will tend to match them..."
He also talks about "3-Dimensional Recording Process". I wonder if I fed it into audacity or mind workstation if I would be able to see if it has binaural beats or not? I'm pretty inexperienced with both of those programs though.

[hseaver]

Well, I gave that CD a real try yesterday, right after my last post, in fact, still sitting in my chair at the computer. It certainly does something. I'm not sure about the gamma, seemed more like deep delta. But I followed the instructions, and starting meditating along with the first track (there are only two) as I usually do, counting my breaths. Went fairly quickly into a sort of dream state and then just totally out.
So out, in fact, that my wife was calling me for supper and I never heard her, she actually started looking for me outside, in the basement, couldn't figure out where I went to that I couldn't hear her, finally came to the computer room where she found me zonked out in my chair with the CD still going (probably one reason I couldn't hear her) but she had to speak to me about 4 times before I woke up. She said she was almost going to check my pulse.
Now I was a little tired, and I do trance out easy, but I was sort of amazed at the effect -- first purely audio session I've tried that seemed to effect me strongly. OTOH, I would not expect gamma to put me into a deep sleep. Maybe I was tireder than I thought, but I hadn't been thinking of taking a nap or anything before that, so ...
I guess it would be interesting to try to create a SyncroMuse session that went along with it.

[Marisa]

Well, I gave that CD a real try yesterday, right after my last post, in fact, still sitting in my chair at the computer. It certainly does something. I'm not sure about the gamma, seemed more like deep delta. But I followed the instructions, and starting meditating along with the first track (there are only two) as I usually do, counting my breaths. Went fairly quickly into a sort of dream state and then just totally out.
So out, in fact, that my wife was calling me for supper and I never heard her, she actually started looking for me outside, in the basement, couldn't figure out where I went to that I couldn't hear her, finally came to the computer room where she found me zonked out in my chair with the CD still going (probably one reason I couldn't hear her) but she had to speak to me about 4 times before I woke up. She said she was almost going to check my pulse.
Now I was a little tired, and I do trance out easy, but I was sort of amazed at the effect -- first purely audio session I've tried that seemed to effect me strongly. OTOH, I would not expect gamma to put me into a deep sleep. Maybe I was tireder than I thought, but I hadn't been thinking of taking a nap or anything before that, so ...
I guess it would be interesting to try to create a SyncroMuse session that went along with it.

I think you are right in that there was more delta in that track to take you so deep. Gamma would be too arousing. Perhaps there are small segments of gamma mixed in the cd. I do know that anything that takes you that deep is Theta/Delta related ... especially if you feel groggy when you come out of the session.

M.

[moff]

http://www.bethcoleman.net/gamma.html
This site explains the relations between Epsilon and the Gamma frequencies just thought it might make an informative read. Epsilon range of frequencies seems a very interesting combination to investigate useing the Procyon anyone want to play???!!

[RichardHK]

Hello fellow brainwaves has anyone created a session or two with high frequency binaural beats say 100htz and 200htz.If so what are your opinions results etc .Thanks have a fun day/night Moff

Interesting discussion here guys (n gals).

One thing to remember is that perceived binaural beats are outside the normal hearing range of say 20Hz to 15-20kHz of the ear, so anything about 20Hz or above is simply heard as a tone or intervals as noted by Robert. So a binaural beat below 20Hz (from two pitches 20Hz apart) has been created by the brain, whereas a 100Hz difference between 100 and 200Hz is simply heard as an interval, or more correctly harmonic (200 = 2x 100) in this case where the tone is enhanced with some resonance.

Great reading refs here for my Amazon wish/reserve list! Almost time for yet another order. Waiting on four books now.