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Thread: Meditation and AVS

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Meditation and AVS

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigT View Post
    Reading the promotional material, and the accounts of users, I find myself wondering what is entrainment, what is placebo, what is due to beautiful sounds.
    Entrainment is essentially a process of training your brain to change states. An AVS machine is merely one method of delivery. It's a more precise method or perhaps better said, it's a more direct method, because the programs use specific frequencies, frequencies which are associated with certain states of mind. The brain is exposed to the frequencies and begins to change it's frequencies to align with that it's exposed to.

    If someone makes a conscious effort to look at all that happens in their life through a positive frame of mind, they are entraining their brain to an alpha state.

    When someone meditates or sits quietly and relaxed, they are entraining their brain to a theta state.

    Engaging in a learning activity, playing video games, doing puzzles, math problems, etc. your brain is engaged in SMR.

    I don't see the Placebo effect being relevant here because your brain wave frequencies exist and they do change according to your state of mind so, anything that changes your mood, essentially changes your brain waves ... even imagination and hallucination.

    I agree, this is very interesting!

    M.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Meditation and AVS

    Absolutely, Marisa.

    My scepticism is in relation to 'complex' entrainment, high-priced entrainment 'systems' and 'secret' entrainment protocols. I am in no doubt about the effectiveness and usefulness of entrainment whatsoever. I also see much merit in incorporating entrainment with beautiful sounds, embellishing it with interesting visuals or anything else that makes the process more fun and more captivating.

    My doubt is that greater complexity increases effectiveness, and my reference to 'placebo' was largely a polite way of expressing my rather cynical view that many people will only find value in something for which they have spent a large amount of money, and having spent much money on 'product x' they will go to great lengths to extol its vitues.

    Cheers,
    Craig

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Meditation and AVS

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigT View Post
    Absolutely, Marisa.

    My skepticism is in relation to 'complex' entrainment, high-priced entrainment 'systems' and 'secret' entrainment protocols. I am in no doubt about the effectiveness and usefulness of entrainment whatsoever.
    I completely agree. Entrainment is a natural process and is actually quite simple in it's nature.

    I recently saw a demo of a biofeedback machine where the user (and company) make claims that this machine can fix everything. The computer program looks complex as it has a lot to it and to someone who doesn't know about how biofeedback actually works, it can look impressive. The company sells these machines for ... get this ... $20,000. They then sell their training sessions for $4,000. It's highway robbery - especially when you can get the same results with a Thought Stream that costs under $200.

    Some people equate "better" with "more expensive" and unfortunately cost is not always a reflection of quality.

    I also see much merit in incorporating entrainment with beautiful sounds, embellishing it with interesting visuals or anything else that makes the process more fun and more captivating.
    I'm sure this method appeals to many.

    My doubt is that greater complexity increases effectiveness, and my reference to 'placebo' was largely a polite way of expressing my rather cynical view that many people will only find value in something for which they have spent a large amount of money, and having spent much money on 'product x' they will go to great lengths to extol its virtues.
    I agree. My story on the expensive biofeedback machine is a good example of this. Oh and the person who bought this machine, ignored the fact that the person who created the machine fled the U.S. after being indicted for 9 (I think) counts of fraud regarding his machine.

    Oh and part of her sales pitch was for the women at the demo not to use the machine on men "because they are too skeptical and don't understand the inner workings of quantum physics". She wasn't trying to sell the machines but she was trying to sell "healing sessions" that the machine could do and get this ... "you don't really need to even be hooked up to the machine in order for it to work. It can heal you from a distance."

    M.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Meditation and AVS

    Great stuff, Marisa. It almost makes me laugh!!!

    The other forum I spend a bit of time on, Transparent, has recently had a lot of posts on mumbo-jumbo systems, particularly ones with the word 'quantum' in their spiel.

    Here's an article I found that does a superb job of explaining why quantum concepts have little or no relevance to the real-world function fo the mind...

    http://watarts.uwaterloo.ca/~celiasm...ain.cogsci.pdf

    Another warning sign is any 'system' that has statements like... "While xxx is a fairly safe practice to do independent of a teacher it is important that if you have a teacher instructing you that they be approved and certified by xxx himself. They can then provide transmissions as needed when you are ready to transition to a higher level." (Taken from a particular website, but it's the same as is found on many self-helpish type sites).

    There seems to be an industry built around preying on the vulnerable and insecure. I'm horrified by the 'don't show it to men' example you gave, implying that 'reason' should be dismissed as what they are offering is far beyond all that (and the implicit message that women are more gullible!!!).

    It makes me sad that for every good company, like yourselves and Transparent, bringing meaningful technology to intelligent people, there's two dozen scam artists that want to milk a concept for all they can, making misleading and blatantly false claims such that the original, factually sustainable, concept (entrainment) comes into question.

    Cheers,
    Craig

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Quantum Woo Woo and Pseudo Science

    Hi Craig,

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigT View Post
    Great stuff, Marisa. It almost makes me laugh!!!

    The other forum I spend a bit of time on, Transparent, has recently had a lot of posts on mumbo-jumbo systems, particularly ones with the word 'quantum' in their spiel.
    At the demo, the people there were calling - "The Secret's" version of Quantum Physics - "subspace". I don't believe such a thing actually exists outside of the Star Trek universe.

    My best argument (so far) against New Age Quantum Physics (NAQP) is that if it was possible to make things happen just by thinking them then George Bush would be a toad and the USA would be swamp land - given all the people that hate Bush and the USA. Road rage would take on a whole new meaning, not to mention ... the sky would rain money.

    The only bit of truth in NAQP, only it has nothing to do with QP, is that by imagining an outcome of a goal, you are programming your unconscious mind to be more aware of opportunities that will get you to your goal and your u/c will make internal changes that propel you toward achieving your goal. The mind always works to create that which you are thinking about.

    Here's an article I found that does a superb job of explaining why quantum concepts have little or no relevance to the real-world function fo the mind...

    http://watarts.uwaterloo.ca/~celiasm...ain.cogsci.pdf
    The link destination says "page not found"

    Another warning sign is any 'system' that has statements like... "While xxx is a fairly safe practice to do independent of a teacher it is important that if you have a teacher instructing you that they be approved and certified by xxx himself. They can then provide transmissions as needed when you are ready to transition to a higher level." (Taken from a particular website, but it's the same as is found on many self-helpish type sites).
    Ya, it translates to buy our expensive products and pay for our expensive courses because only we have the knowledge and no one else in the universe is capable of accomplishing this without our help. lol

    There seems to be an industry built around preying on the vulnerable and insecure. I'm horrified by the 'don't show it to men' example you gave, implying that 'reason' should be dismissed as what they are offering is far beyond all that (and the implicit message that women are more gullible!!!).
    I know!!! and it was a woman who said it!

    It makes me sad that for every good company, like yourselves and Transparent, bringing meaningful technology to intelligent people, there's two dozen scam artists that want to milk a concept for all they can, making misleading and blatantly false claims such that the original, factually sustainable, concept (entrainment) comes into question.
    Ya, and what's really sad is that someone like Richard Bandler is endorsing one of those bad companies.

    M.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Meditation and AVS

    I don't know what happened to that link - here's one that works...

    http://watarts.uwaterloo.ca/~celiasm...ain.cogsci.pdf

    I wonder how long it will be before people finally accept that there are no shortcuts - others may guide us, but they can't do it for us.

    Instant gratification and 'the free lunch' just aren't out there.

    Cheers,
    Craig

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Meditation and AVS

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigT View Post
    I don't know what happened to that link - here's one that works...

    http://watarts.uwaterloo.ca/~celiasm...ain.cogsci.pdf

    I wonder how long it will be before people finally accept that there are no shortcuts - others may guide us, but they can't do it for us.

    Instant gratification and 'the free lunch' just aren't out there.

    Cheers,
    Craig
    Thanks, that link works. Going to read the article now.

    M.

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