Out of Body with Light & Sound?

[Marisa]

Hi Richard,

Next time I hope to remember to spend more time looking around and doing the lucid checks like seeing how many fingers I have. Will not drink too much before bedtime again though.

It's interesting that there are degrees of lucidity in dreams. In some of the ones I have, I do not become lucid until after the event.

Have you ever died in one of your dreams? I have a few times. In this one dream I was being chased by some bad guy who was riding a horse. I ran up this hill and I thought that I outsmarted him. I heard this noise and saw the horse running by riderless as I turned around, realizing I'd been tricked - I was killed. All went black. There was no pain and I do remember marveling at the brilliance my killer had in technique. Odd that I would find that particular thing impressive. lol

In another dream, I actually died slower. It's a rather interesting dream so I'll give a bit more detail.

Dream: I'm sitting in the waiting room at a doctor's office and suddenly I keel over. I can feel my body hit the ground and am aware of my consciousness fading. I can hear the people around me freaking out, someone yelling for an ambulance to be called. I do not feel any pain and I can not move. It is like I am inside my body and outside it at the same time.

I lose consciousness of "that" world and find myself falling through some kind of void (colors swirling - like getting sucked through a vacuum). I find myself standing in my parents back yard and all these nasty things (demons?) are flying around me and at me. I somehow manage to banish them and back into the vacuum void I go. Overall, this was a really scary part of the dream. So many things were happening so fast. I was confused and in a bit of shock because of the suddenness of what was happening to me and around me.

Eventually all this stops and I find myself in some kind of office where this attendant comes up to me and says, "Sorry I had to pull you out like that but I've got an assignment for you. Here's the folder of the personality you will assume". I see the folder but didn't get a chance to read it and before I know it I'm in a city in the U.S..

My mind tells me it's Dallas Texas and the body I am in is not my own. I don't remember very much more detail of the dream other than I was some girl and some guy was going to try to rape and kill me and my "job" was to get her out of the situation alive, which I did and then the dream ended.

Any one else have any bizarre death or near death experiences in a dream?

[C-shore]

Hi Richard,
Any one else have any bizarre death or near death experiences in a dream?

I would be interesting to look at your personal beliefs to see how they influence the dream. For example, do you believe in 'retrievals', from an OBE point of view? If so, maybe that's why you had that dream... or maybe it was a real rescue of some type, just at another level. Interesting.

On another subject, I finally got the Requiem CD and used it this morning. The 2nd track was most interesting to me. About half way through it, all of a sudden I could see this huge field and the sky (backdrop?) was black. On the field was a huge object, like a building or ship or something, but totally foreign to me. My first thought was "should I tell someone in the government about this?" and then thought immediately "no, who can trust them anyway."

Then I moved in front of the object and could see stuff written on the front of the big object and on the ground in front of it. They were symbols that I couldn't understand and I was thinking "how interesting". The symbols looked like letters but not English ones or any other language that I know. They were written on what looked like flat paving or cobblestones. They (the stones) looked old. Then something clicked audibly - I think it was something in the room like my cable box or something I?m not sure - and I was 'back'. I tried to return to where I had just been but then the track ended.

I'm going to try it again later today. I'm not sure what my state of mind was, but I was definitely awake (I had just woke up, first thing in the morning). The experience seemed 'normal' at the time but now that I read back through it it seems far out, unbelievable. As usual. So - not a near death experience, but interesting - to me at least.

[Marisa]

Hi C-shore,

I would be interesting to look at your personal beliefs to see how they influence the dream. For example, do you believe in 'retrievals', from an OBE point of view? If so, maybe that's why you had that dream... or maybe it was a real rescue of some type, just at another level. Interesting.

It was quite a long time ago (years) when I had the dream and who knows what influenced the dream. Perhaps an over-active imagination.

On another subject, I finally got the Requiem CD and used it this morning. The 2nd track was most interesting to me. About half way through it, all of a sudden I could see this huge field and the sky (backdrop?) was black. On the field was a huge object, like a building or ship or something, but totally foreign to me. My first thought was "should I tell someone in the government about this?" and then thought immediately "no, who can trust them anyway."

So you think what you saw is something that is actually happening? Perhaps the ship represents something to you symbolically?

Then I moved in front of the object and could see stuff written on the front of the big object and on the ground in front of it. They were symbols that I couldn't understand and I was thinking "how interesting". The symbols looked like letters but not English ones or any other language that I know. They were written on what looked like flat paving or cobblestones. They (the stones) looked old. Then something clicked audibly - I think it was something in the room like my cable box or something I’m not sure - and I was 'back'. I tried to return to where I had just been but then the track ended.

That is interesting.

I'm going to try it again later today. I'm not sure what my state of mind was, but I was definitely awake (I had just woke up, first thing in the morning). The experience seemed 'normal' at the time but now that I read back through it it seems far out, unbelievable. As usual. So - not a near death experience, but interesting - to me at least.

It's not always relevant whether what we "see" is real or not as there is much to learn about ourselves through our "visions". I've used the Tarot and pendulum for years as a bridge between the conscious and unconscious. The unconscious mind believes everything is real, it is our conscious mind that determines what is actually real or not. The conscious mind doesn't always get it right either as sometimes we see things that are not really there or we don't see things that are there. Our beliefs definitely influence our perception of reality. None of this takes away from an astral experience as the "astral" could be an "inner planes" phenomena.

M.

[C-shore]

So you think what you saw is something that is actually happening? Perhaps the ship represents something to you symbolically?

Well, it seems silly - right now - to think that it was something that was actually happening. But there is WAS, clear as day. What I can't figure out is why did I see something that I had no basis/memory of? When recounting dreams, I can usually identify the characters or places even if they don't make sense. But sometimes when meditating (many times over the years) and now with this machine, I'm seeing stuff that I can't figure out where it's from. So for me, dreaming and meditating are two distinct states of consciousness.

Our beliefs definitely influence our perception of reality. None of this takes away from an astral experience as the "astral" could be an "inner planes" phenomena.

Another possibility is that of a collective unconscious, which I think Freud came up with. Like birds that fly together, they have some memory - or something - that lets them now how to do things without learning them.

[Marisa]

Well, it seems silly - right now - to think that it was something that was actually happening. But there is WAS, clear as day. What I can't figure out is why did I see something that I had no basis/memory of? When recounting dreams, I can usually identify the characters or places even if they don't make sense. But sometimes when meditating (many times over the years) and now with this machine, I'm seeing stuff that I can't figure out where it's from. So for me, dreaming and meditating are two distinct states of consciousness.

The mind is capable of creating the most realistic visions - so real that you would be hard pressed to determine whether they were real or a hallucination. The mind is capable of taking bits and pieces of memories, knowledge and information and putting it together in the most original ways. I think about some of the "unique" dreams I've had over the years that, like you, had no idea where the heck they originated.

The dream state and meditation state - in brain wave speak - are closely related as both occur in a low alpha/theta state.

Another possibility is that of a collective unconscious, which I think Freud came up with. Like birds that fly together, they have some memory - or something - that lets them now how to do things without learning them.

Instinctual things?

M.

[C-shore]

C-Shore said: Like birds that fly together, they have some memory - or something - that lets them now how to do things without learning them.

Marisa said: Instinctual things?

First of all, it wasn't Freud (like I thought)... it was Carl Jung. He said there's a "collective unconscious", a reservoir of the experiences of our species.

It's more than instinctual. For example, a human baby knows to suck... that's instinct. But a bird can fly in formation, or a cicada knows only to cycle every 17 years. At what point does instinct turn into something else like pre-existing knowledge that we're connected to somehow?

In humans, where does music come from? Or creative ideas? Is that instinct, intelligence or a collective knowledge or intelligence that already exists, that we all tap into when in the right state of mind? I believe that there's a vast reservoir of knowledge that we can access... where music, ideas and things like that come from. We just need to be able to access it.

When you've had a great idea... did YOU really think of it? Or did you access it it from some great, deep repository of knowledge or font of creativity?

[Marisa]

Hi C-shore,

First of all, it wasn't Freud (like I thought)... it was Carl Jung. He said there's a "collective unconscious", a reservoir of the experiences of our species.

Ah, I thought it may be Jung, though Freud was the first to "discover" the unconscious.

It's more than instinctual. For example, a human baby knows to suck... that's instinct. But a bird can fly in formation, or a cicada knows only to cycle every 17 years. At what point does instinct turn into something else like pre-existing knowledge that we're connected to somehow?

That is a good question. I wonder if there is a scientific answer to that question. I know little about this area.

In humans, where does music come from? Or creative ideas? Is that instinct, intelligence or a collective knowledge or intelligence that already exists, that we all tap into when in the right state of mind? I believe that there's a vast reservoir of knowledge that we can access... where music, ideas and things like that come from. We just need to be able to access it.

More excellent questions. Some of it has to do with intelligence and with that intelligence comes capabilities such as creativity. Specific abilities such as music, gosh ... hmmm thinking back to ancient man who liked rhythm and the only form of music would be drumming on something ... it was an evolution of sorts in intelligence that led us to create more complex instruments.

The idea of a collective unconscious or Akashic records is an interesting one. I do wonder though, if such a thing exists, how come not everyone has "access" to it. If such a thing exists, then accessing it would not depend on faith or belief - because if it exists, it's there and should be accessable by all. What would be that "right" state of mind?

When you've had a great idea... did YOU really think of it? Or did you access it it from some great, deep repository of knowledge or font of creativity?

How would one know the correct answer to that question?

M.

[C-shore]

Hi C-shore,

The idea of a collective unconscious or Akashic records is an interesting one. I do wonder though, if such a thing exists, how come not everyone has "access" to it. If such a thing exists, then accessing it would not depend on faith or belief - because if it exists, it's there and should be accessible by all. What would be that "right" state of mind? M.

I think everyone does have access to it. When one comes up with a unique solution to a problem, I think they're accessing it. And when someone - say Stevie Wonder - comes up with some incredible melody, I think he's REALLY accessing it.

To me, intelligence is being able to figure things out using facts and tools that are at hand. Creativity goes beyond that. You need intelligence as a tool to access and express creativity. But where creativity comes from... that's the question. I feel there IS a source, call it the collective unconscious or God, it's where we all came from and are all made of. Meditation helps get one closer to it.

When you've had a great idea... did YOU really think of it? Or did you access it it from some great, deep repository of knowledge or font of creativity?
How would one know the correct answer to that question?M.

I'm not sure about that.. but when one has an idea that seems to come out of the blue, or comes up with "e=mc2" for example, that's got to come from somewhere doesn't it? It wasn't there before, and now it is... where did it come from? I think it comes from that source, whatever you want to call it.

[Marisa]

Hi C-Shore,

I think everyone does have access to it. When one comes up with a unique solution to a problem, I think they're accessing it. And when someone - say Stevie Wonder - comes up with some incredible melody, I think he's REALLY accessing it.

Why couldn't that "brilliance" simply come from the individual?

To me, intelligence is being able to figure things out using facts and tools that are at hand. Creativity goes beyond that. You need intelligence as a tool to access and express creativity. But where creativity comes from... that's the question. I feel there IS a source, call it the collective unconscious or God, it's where we all came from and are all made of. Meditation helps get one closer to it.

I respect that you believe that there is a god or source of some kind. After all, you may be correct. I wish there was some scientific evidence to support your beliefs because then it would be easier for me to accept the belief as my own as well. However, I am stuck on the fence neither believing or disbelieving but curious as to what else could cause these things.

The question is, can one be intelligent and not creative or can one be creative and not intelligent? We do know that the more intelligent the person (or animal) the more mental capabilities that being has (including creativity). Of course this brings up the question about autism and savants.

I'm not sure about that.. but when one has an idea that seems to come out of the blue, or comes up with "e=mc2" for example, that's got to come from somewhere doesn't it? It wasn't there before, and now it is... where did it come from? I think it comes from that source, whatever you want to call it.

Einstein, for example, didn't just come up with his formula out of the blue. This was something he thought about and worked on for many years. The knowledge leading up to his theory was learned. I think these ideas come from the brain and intelligence. Most brilliant ideas are inspired as a result of a need or curiosity. So there are motivators. I don't think these things happen "out of the blue". I think you need to give the individual and their brain a bit more credit for their capabilities.

M.

[C-shore]

I wish there was some scientific evidence to support your beliefs because then it would be easier for me to accept the belief as my own as well.
M.

I don't totally believe one way of the other. As he years go on, "proof" matters less and less to me. I do know a few things; that meditation brings one closer to the "source", be that a collective unconscious, God, or just one's own soul. It doesn't really matter which one of those it is... I have the innate drive to go towards it - whatever it is. Proof and belief are secondary to me. Prove what... to whom? Why do I even care about that? I'm searching and traveling toward something, some realization and meaning... as long as I feel I'm progressing, proof is almost meaningless. (Unless I need same ca$h from Mr. Randi! )

Einstein, for example, didn't just come up with his formula out of the blue. This was something he thought about and worked on for many years. The knowledge leading up to his theory was learned. I think these ideas come from the brain and intelligence. Most brilliant ideas are inspired as a result of a need or curiosity. So there are motivators. I don't think these things happen "out of the blue". I think you need to give the individual and their brain a bit more credit for their capabilities.

I do give them credit... using intelligence takes a lot of work and training. But I wonder if that effort just lets one discover things and ideas that already exist (e.g., Einstein - the theory or relativity already exsisted, he just defined it) or if it truly allows one to access new things. I go back to music as an example. Does intelligence just allow one to rearrange existing notes in new pleasing patterns, or is there a real, new essence being formed that truly did not exist previously?

If so, where did it come from? When an artist, explaining how she came up with her new work, says, "It just came to me", where did it come from?