Vista support? Other questions...

**Maverick** · 07-21-2007, 03:35 AM

I'm trying to make a decision between the Proteus and Procyon. I'm by no means a financially rich person, and I am most interested in the Proteus since it's about $75 less. But in the interest of making the most informed decision possible, I have a few questions:

1. Will the Proteus work with Vista? As in, do the drivers work in Vista so I can transfer new programs to it? I'm assuming the Procyon will, since it's USB and should therefore be plug and play--please correct me if I'm mistaken.

2. I'm beginning my personal spiritual journey and--as a computer programmer by trade--love the idea of using machines to accelerate human evolution. My theory is that through use of your machines at first and (as money permits) a bio-feedback system later, I can "learn" to set my brain at the necessary frequencies with no assistance. That said, I'm most interested in achieving the Shamanic meditative states...which machine will be most beneficial to my pursuits? I've noted that there seems to be far more user-generated programs for the Proteus than the Procyon, some of which seem to fit right in with my Theta/low-Alpha desires.

3. This is just a question for fun: which machine produces the best visual imagery? I'm assuming it's the Procyon, since it's got a significantly broader color range, but if similar results can be achieved with the Proteus...well, like I implied--I'm broke.

4. Please be frank. How effective are the machines? I have seen how effective bio-feedback systems can be on friends of mine, but I can't afford both right now. I am more interested in the machine first because my wife can't sleep--even most prescription narcotic medications fail to get her to sleep. That's why I want to buy it first--the hope that it will help her sleep as well as help me achieve my desired mind-states.

You guys seem to run a fantastic forum here, and I thank you in advance for your consideration of my questions.

**Andy** · 07-21-2007, 04:01 AM

Hi Maverick and welcome!

Originally Posted by Maverick

I'm trying to make a decision between the Proteus and Procyon. I'm by no means a financially rich person, and I am most interested in the Proteus since it's about $75 less. But in the interest of making the most informed decision possible, I have a few questions:

1. Will the Proteus work with Vista? As in, do the drivers work in Vista so I can transfer new programs to it? I'm assuming the Procyon will, since it's USB and should therefore be plug and play--please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Well, the Procyon is not exactly plug-and-play, it does require a driver for the USB connection. I'm checking now to see if the driver (supplied by the chip manufacturer) is Vista-compatible.
The Proteus itself doesn't use any drivers, but it does use an RS-232 port. If your PC doesn't have that connection, you need to purchase a USB to RS-232 adapter, which would require a driver. You'd have to check with the manufacturer of said adapter as to whether or not they have a Vista-compatible driver or not. Or at least buy it from a place that lets you return it if it doesn't work!

2. I'm beginning my personal spiritual journey and--as a computer programmer by trade--love the idea of using machines to accelerate human evolution. My theory is that through use of your machines at first and (as money permits) a bio-feedback system later, I can "learn" to set my brain at the necessary frequencies with no assistance. That said, I'm most interested in achieving the Shamanic meditative states...which machine will be most beneficial to my pursuits? I've noted that there seems to be far more user-generated programs for the Proteus than the Procyon, some of which seem to fit right in with my Theta/low-Alpha desires.

I'll have to leave this question to someone more knowledgeable about the brain than I!

3. This is just a question for fun: which machine produces the best visual imagery? I'm assuming it's the Procyon, since it's got a significantly broader color range, but if similar results can be achieved with the Proteus...well, like I implied--I'm broke.

Yes, the Procyon has more colour capabilities, but for what you're looking to do, I'm sure the Proteus will serve you well.

4. Please be frank. How effective are the machines? I have seen how effective bio-feedback systems can be on friends of mine, but I can't afford both right now. I am more interested in the machine first because my wife can't sleep--even most prescription narcotic medications fail to get her to sleep. That's why I want to buy it first--the hope that it will help her sleep as well as help me achieve my desired mind-states.

Again, not a question I can answer, except to say that the machines are immensely popular, and I know many people who have used the Proteus for exactly that - to help them fall asleep. For them it works extremely well. Everyone is different, of course!

You guys seem to run a fantastic forum here, and I thank you in advance for your consideration of my questions.

Aw, shucks!

Thanks for your kind words. I'll see if Marisa can help answer the questions that I can't...

**Maverick** · 07-21-2007, 06:14 AM

Andy, thank you for your quick reply. You have actually answered most of my questions. I'll be eagerly awaiting what Marisa has to say...I've been trolling the forums most of the morning, and you both seem to provide the best answers you possibly can.

**Marisa** · 07-21-2007, 10:18 AM

Hi Maverick,

2. I'm beginning my personal spiritual journey

This sounds interesting. I don't want to pry into something that is a very personal journey however, if you want to discuss some of your thoughts on this, either on the forum or through private messages ....

and--as a computer programmer by trade--love the idea of using machines to accelerate human evolution. My theory is that through use of your machines at first and (as money permits) a bio-feedback system later, I can "learn" to set my brain at the necessary frequencies with no assistance.

Hmmm maybe you will be inspired to write some software that helps people use their brains better.

oh okay back to the topic at hand. LOL Yes, you absolutely can achieve this with the L&S machines. I found that after using the Proteus and with some understanding on how the mind works (and I'm more than happy to share what I've learned about this with you) I am able to enter into a trance at will, which really comes into handy when you have a long wait (such as at a doctor's office, bank line etc.).

That said, I'm most interested in achieving the Shamanic meditative states...which machine will be most beneficial to my pursuits?

A Shamanic meditative state involves both achieving a Theta state (this is where the machine comes in) and a bit of hypnotic mind work (which is where your thoughts & beliefs come in).

Both the Proteus and the Procyon are equal in their ability for you to reach this state.

The reason both machines can do this is because essentially they are both programmed to do the same thing -- entrain the brain. Entrainment works through what's called "a frequency following system". Basically what this means is - the brain will follow the frequency it is exposed to.

I've noted that there seems to be far more user-generated programs for the Proteus than the Procyon, some of which seem to fit right in with my Theta/low-Alpha desires.

Yes, only because the Proteus has been around longer, though I think the Procyon editor program seems easier to use (less options to confuse you). Having said that, I wrote a really cool trance program for the Proteus that I used with my clients in hypnosis sessions and had great results.

3. This is just a question for fun: which machine produces the best visual imagery? I'm assuming it's the Procyon, since it's got a significantly broader color range, but if similar results can be achieved with the Proteus...well, like I implied--I'm broke.

The Procyon because of the three colors in the LEDs you have access to 255 shades as opposed to the 15 on the Proteus. The Proteus LEDs are brighter than the Procyon (so I hear but wonder about because I've used the Procyon in a darkened room and the lights are plenty bright!).

4. Please be frank. How effective are the machines? I have seen how effective bio-feedback systems can be on friends of mine, but I can't afford both right now. I am more interested in the machine first because my wife can't sleep--even most prescription narcotic medications fail to get her to sleep. That's why I want to buy it first--the hope that it will help her sleep as well as help me achieve my desired mind-states.

The machines are very effective in helping someone get to sleep. They have been found to be effective in helping someone improve their concentration, ability to relax, increase creativity etc. -- all the things that are associated with the states of mind that coincide with the groups of brain wave frequencies.

It's important to keep in mind that all the machines do is get your brain into a desired frequency range, which does affect state of mind but it doesn't change your thoughts. It gets you to a place where you can launch your potential from. For example, it will help your mind relax but your attitude and what you do from there will determine how effective the entrainment is. For example, people with addiction problems tend to be missing Alpha brainwaves. You can put a person who has an addiction on a light and sound machine and it will help them overcome their addiction in that it can reduce cravings and increase feelings of satisfaction without the drug or substance, **BUT** - unless that person is willing to make lifestyle changes and work at having an attitude that is conducive to the goal ... s/he will remain addicted to whatever. Does this make sense? The machine provides the tool but you have to use it properly. It's not a quick cure or a cure all. It is merely a tool - a very effective tool if used properly.

If money is an issue, go with the Proteus. It's an excellent machine and one I tend to use quite frequently. Not to mention I also wrote a program for "sleep replacement" which I found to work really well also. I use this program when I haven't had a good nights sleep and want to feel rejuvenated. These programs are available on the forum for down load.

You will feel satisfied with the Proteus and can achieve everything that you could with the Procyon.

You guys seem to run a fantastic forum here, and I thank you in advance for your consideration of my questions.

Thank you for your kind words. Your appreciation is inspirational!

M.

**Maverick** · 07-22-2007, 02:16 AM

Thanks for your reply. You answered all of my questions. It would seem that the machines do exactly what I was expecting. Researching very deep meditative states, it seemed that most shamans (fewer gurus, but there were some of those, too) used some sort of hallucinogen to achieve higher levels of conciousness, which eventually led to me to Carlos Castaneda. After reading Carlos Castaneda's Art of Dreaming, I started to follow the path of lucid dreaming through the years and how it has developed as a science. I've managed to achieve lower-level lucid dreaming (the first gate, as Don Castaneda would call it), but I was wondering if anyone had done clinical research into lucid dreaming, looking for scientific validation. Evidently, they have. A lot. That's when I first found out about the varying frequencies of the mind (lucid dreaming occurs at a different frequency than standard dreaming, and different parts of the brain are activated)...and, through a process filled with curiosity, I ended up here.

I'd be happy to talk to you about my spiritual journey, what I believe, etc, here or in PM. I'm always open to new ideas and love to share my own.

Back to the machines, I found a gently used Procyon on ebay last night for 175 buy-it-now with free shipping...I'm going to wait it out and see how much I can get it for. I normally don't like to ebay products I truly support, but that's a deal that's just too good to pass up. If I can't get it, I'll be buying the Proteus with my next paycheck.

**Marisa** · 07-24-2007, 09:44 AM

Hi Maverick,

Originally Posted by Maverick

Thanks for your reply. You answered all of my questions. It would seem that the machines do exactly what I was expecting.

Excellent.

Researching very deep meditative states, ...

I've moved this part of the conversation to a new thread: http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...read.php?t=305

Back to the machines, I found a gently used Procyon on ebay last night for 175 buy-it-now with free shipping...I'm going to wait it out and see how much I can get it for. I normally don't like to ebay products I truly support, but that's a deal that's just too good to pass up. If I can't get it, I'll be buying the Proteus with my next paycheck

.

If you are in the U.S., the Procyon are $269 US and the Proteus is $159 US (I believe) on the Mindplace website. If you are in Canada, please send me a PM.

See you on the other thread!

M.