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Thread: First experiences

  1. #1
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    Default First experiences

    I and my boyfriend have been trying out the Kasina for 2 weeks now. I guess it is a bit early to draw results, but nevertheless I was hoping for some feedback from experienced users.

    I tried out several programs from the different categories just curious what the experience will be like, and I can't really feel any effects on my mental state. Thoughts about every day life still come and go, I am not meditating or relaxing and some longer programms are tiring. I know how it feels like when I am relaxed and daydreaming. e.g. when I am looking at the reflection of the sun on the waves of the sea, and I can't reproduce that feeling with the Kasina yet.

    I also only notice the colors at the highest brightness level, which is rather too bright, and mostly at the beginning of the programm - the longer it lasts the less I notice. I can't make out any shapes, let alone spirals or mandalas, so I didn't have my "wow"-experience yet.

    My boyfriend which suffers from insomnia and had some strong psychedelic experiences in the past, on the other hand, sees very bright colors at the lowest brightness possible and at even this level he finds the flashing lights annoying. He even experienced one session with a binaural sound instead of music as agressive, and he wants to give the unit up. (Needless to say we can't experience a session together with 2 pairs of glasses, because at the level of brightness he is comfortble with and already seeing vivid colors, I only see darkness interrupted by a hardly noticeable flashing.)

    It seems as if he is over-reacting to the sessions and I am not reacting at all.

    Any thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: First experiences

    Ah, therein lies the rub so to say. People's perception of brightness and color are quite varied it seems. There may be physiological factors such as thickness of the eyelids, how deeply the eyes are set, positioning of the glasses on the face etc. However, it likely lies much deeper than that.
    It seems that people who experience immediate deep visuals are of the 'cloud gazer' variety. That is those type of people who build imagery from suggestive abstract shapes. Personally, I have done this my whole life. I can go to an art gallery with a date for instance and go into (annoying) detail about what I see in the paintings and the other person may be like 'I just don't see that'. I use it as a compatibility test sometimes. When I was a kid (and even later) I made mud paintings by smearing about dirt and adding leaves, sticks etc. I could see whole worlds in there.
    In earlier threads you have talked about wanting to reconnect with childlike creative and states of mind. Have you ever looked at the books by art therapist Lucia Capaccione? http://amzn.to/1PFoPJw I have read The Power of Your Other Hand (which had fun exercises) and also Visioning. I remember she had written Recovery of Your Inner Child and based on the other books and her expertise I would say it is good. Amazon has other recommendations on this subject.

    On flicker, again there seems to be varying interpretations. Personally I have always loved flicker. Watching candles, campfires, lightning bugs, backlit trees in the wind... etc.... I love watching that stuff. When I first encountered a strobe light at a haunted house I felt like everything went into super slow motion and I could see more precise detail in everything. Of course, at the time that scared the crap out of me even more, but I loved it.

    Let me make a very recent example of the state of mind that is sometimes necessary. Last week over several days there was a cricket who had settled in the window well outside my bedroom. A single cricket but he was LOUD.. He started chirping at around midnight and never stopped until sunrise. I was very annoyed and the first night it seemed that I must go to war with him. On the second night however I decided to treat his chirps as if they were 'isochronic beats' (you hear these in mind machine sessions). I meditated as I went to sleep along with this cricket.

    Side note for fun: it is reported that you can determine the temperature outside from the frequency of a cricket chirp. To convert cricket chirps to degrees fahrenheit you add the number of chirps in 14 seconds and add 40. http://www.snopes.com/science/cricket.asp So I reverse engineered this. If it was on average 82 degrees outside at night here, then the cricket was chirping 3 times a second which is in the delta range just at the border to theta. (82 - 40) / 14 = 3

    During the subsequent 2 days the cricket was my companion, he has since moved on, I had several lucid dreams throughout the night and morning. I could hear his call far away in the dream and it woke me within the dream as I remembered that he was in the 'real' world. I had some of the best lucid dreams I have ever had. So much so that I ordered replacement head bands for my Zeo Sleep Coach unit and intended to try and capture EEG data. Alas, the cricket was gone by the time I got the replacements and my older one wouldn't get a signal. However, I did have a significant lucid dream the night before last with the unit on, and a brief one last night.

    The point of this is to use the stimulus as food for the imagination. What seems annoying or what might not be what we have anticipated it to be at first can be empowered with perseverance.

    Modern culture thrives on immediate gratification. Meditation is the opposite of immediate gratification. For a large set of people, meditation is 'dry' for months, even years, before they have a breakthrough, and most never persist. Assisted meditation with AVS lessens this time dramatically because it creates an environment of repeating stimuli. So, rather than sitting down and flowing only with content of one's thoughts at the time (and batting those thoughts away like flies), with AVS you have 'cues' and 'guidance' so to speak.

    ------------------------
    Asides aside, on your questions:

    The first thing I would suggest for both your boyfriend and you is to try the open eye cutouts from this post: http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...d-Fun-Patterns
    This will help you to become more in touch with the colors, with eyes open. It also presents a template for patterns, which can suggest some of the 'outlines' you may look for to begin seeing geometry. For your boyfriend it will lessen the brightness even further and also 'smooth out' the flicker a bit.

    Try a few sessions with these in place.

    In this post, http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...ces-Test-Files , are some files for the Kasina that approach fractal geometry in an isolated manner.

    On insomnia, I think one of the major causes is structured internal chatter that will not stop, mulling over ideas, memories, to do lists, etc. Whereas getting to sleep requires that you disengage these purposeful thoughts and allow your mind to drift, to go where it may. AVS and meditation in general can greatly help with this if you let it. When someone reports what I call extreme 'surface' perception http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...e-shapes/page2 ... I tend to think that they are bringing this 'analytical' state of consciousness into the experience and not letting it go. It is like watching a movie and studying every camera angle, set piece, dialog delivery, etc. I used to need to do this as part of my job and quickly the whole movie fades away and you are left with only the constructed fake world, the story never penetrates, and the intended effect is never achieved.

    Anyway, I hope some of this is helpful and sorry for being long winded. Let us know your results and efforts. Please do persevere, Raziela, I think it will pay off for you in the long run.

    Best,
    Scott
    Last edited by neuroasis; 08-30-2015 at 04:38 PM.
    If you know something I don't, speak up! If maybe I know something you don't, ask away!

  3. #3

    Default Re: First experiences

    My experiences are as follows :

    I've been meditating for about 15 years and I started by buying Meditation for Dummies from the For Dummies learning series, that's how much I knew. I really devoted time to meditation and went years without any noticeable results. What I found out later was that I was looking for really noticeable results and finding none and then one day I did notice the results. It really hit me, it was like the forest through the trees saying. My results were these: Being able to think clearer in stressful situations, being able to come out of stressful and even confrontational situations less unraveled and able to get back to calm, cool, and collected much faster with less lingering results. I was able to think things through much more methodically and the way I interacted with people was subtly but enormously different. I know how to think before I speak (react) I can also learn in a better way, and so much more. I'll admit, over those years I've had my moments of complete failure in these areas due to "mega situations" but I believe benefiting from meditation is a life long pursuit and the positive benefits are endless. When will I feel like I've reached my meditation goals ? Probably when I'm about 90

    I find my mind machines are tools for so many different goals. Like recently I discovered color organ and for me it's like being in the club of my genre choice with the dance floor or stage lights blinking away enhancing the music that way, like your in a club having a blast. It makes me smile, puts me in a great mood and I'm rockin to the whole experience so to speak, air guitar, (light) head bangin, air drumming etc for rock and other faster songs, gettin into the groove for 70's gold, Disco is awesome for Color Organ you can just imagine what I look like then My preference for Color Organ is the DeepVision open eye frames, the color experience and sequencing and different shades makes this an amazing experience and remember, there are adjustments in Color Organ that can make it even better for your personal preferences. Try it with the closed eye frames I bet it's fun too. Talk about acting like a kid again ! Get's me right back to that frame of mind, giggly and full of energy. Try looking at childhood pictures more, talk to your family about the past, think about when you were a child a lot and all of the unique experiences you had (per the last post about you wanting to connect with your childhood again). Pick them all apart, now is the time.

    I've always been an all or nothing person so I rarely turn the brightness down. Even in the open eye frames, yes, the brightness is a little intense but I stick it out and my eye's acclimate pretty quick. Tell your boyfriend (or you should) to try this trick.......squint.........even in the closed eye frames ( tell him to close his eyes tighter), that's what I do (squint) in the open eye frames and before I know it I don't have to squint anymore. Also I found that turning the brightness down doesn't take away from the experience it actually adds an extra dimension. Try turning them up slowly if it starts out to bright for you. As a side note, in the open eye frames I found a trick : I close my eyes tight for a couple seconds then open them and the patterns are stunning, sometimes I keep doing it over and over (don't do it in the closed eye frames). A trick for you in the closed eye frames is to move your eye's around periodically, up down, back forth, even leaving them to one side or the other for a couple of seconds, it definitely produces different effects.

    The one thing that is an unknown to me is that yes, I think different thickness eye lids would probably produce a different experience. Other variables may be skin pigment shades and even eye makup. Maybe make sure you are in a really dark room for brighter lights. And I know this is a silly thought but is your boyfriend shutting his eye's in the closed eye frames, I'm sure he is but I just had to ask, maybe you should confirm that with him.

    At the very least try this: One of the things I've always done from the beginning is use my machines for putting me to sleep. I put on a sleep session but I don't go to bed like I'm hitting the sack. I just prop up a couple of pillows and lay on top of the blanket in some comfy clothes and I also put a pillow or two under my knees, I sometimes even point a fan at me for extra comfort but turn it on low and keep it a good distance away or the noise will become part of the session (BTW so do air conditioners, TV's and anything else running loudly in the background so turn them off or on low, TV's, radios and music off). Between all of this I get the best deepest sleep ever. I also believe it causes much more memorable dreams when you do go to bed in the evening. If you're looking to work a few things out with yourself dreaming is a great way to do that. After mastering awesome power naps expand on your Kasina experience from there because that's huge, you've mastered one aspect of the Kasina and it gives you confidence to further explore because now you've had solid results.


    At the end of the day I think you have to have a positive attitude towards the whole experience in order to add to your successes. Even if you aren't seeing hard results reach deep down and find those results, even tell your self that you are experiencing results, have a great attitude about this tool, it's a powerful one. This is mega-meditation, it's what meditation practitioners seek out..............a way to stop the mind from processing the tens of thousands of bits of information it processes everyday non-stop. Achieve just that one small thing and you've virtually become a meditation expert, that one small thing is what we are all seeking first and foremost. Do it for long enough and the benefits are amazing and that's what mind machines do the best it's what they're good at. Without help from a mind machine people seek this for years and years before finding it. Imagine taking just your mind to the spa, that's what meditation does.

    If I can think of any other suggestions I'll post them. These are just my experiences, I'm no expert.
    Last edited by SteveMod; 09-01-2015 at 05:23 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: First experiences

    Try adding ceylon cinnamon (make sure it's ceylon and not store bought in a bottle ceylon is milder and better for you) to your food for more powerful alertness, creativity and learning sessions, it's proven to increase brain activity. For sleep sessions success try chamomile tea (I do that at night before bed sometimes) as long as you know you are not allergic.

    I also posted a recipe here: http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...VS-Enhancement
    This is actually called diviners tea, very mild nothing scary all good for you.
    Last edited by SteveMod; 09-01-2015 at 05:17 AM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: First experiences

    Thank you both for sharing your personal experiences and the lengthy and detailed posts.

    I don't think I would like to try with open eyes yet - it doesn't sound so fascinating and I still have only tried only a few sessions.

    I thought about trying the color organ, but apart from the nice light show I do not understand what effects / waves / herz it is supposed to create, because the music is random - and so this the light show. Any thoughts on that?

    Lately I tried an Audiostrobe program and probably because of the variety in its colors / patterns it kind of made me relax and enjoy more than other sessions, in which the colors and patterns seemed more repetitive to me. Then I read in the manual audiostrobe are just demo sessions showing off different colors, spectrastrobe is more advanced, and yet I liked the audiostrobe session better.

    So I think each user perceives the sessions differently and from what you are writing here this perception enhances / changes over time, so I won't give up. Is there a recommended "brain workout" I could stick to, meaning can you train your brain with an AVS the way you can physically train your body when you are following a certain plan? Like session x z times a day?

    @Scott - we have a lot of crickets too and I love listening to them before falling asleep, although I don't think they have been an aid for lucid dreaming.
    @Steve - I love cinammon - in my food and as an essential oil. I will try to use it more often, thanks for the tip!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: First experiences

    Hi Raziela,
    You are sharing conflicting ideas, so it is hard to find the middle ground for a recommendation. On the one hand your stated goal was to enhance your creativity. This implies a loose joyful exploration, trying out many things, and accepting each experience as it is and using it to build new ideas from. This is the very basis of creativity.

    The 'secret' of why children are so creative is that they see each thing as fresh, make new connections, learning, expanding and growing at every step. Their expectations are muted and their possibilities wide open.

    Yet, you say.. "i've only tried a few sessions", "it doesn't sound so fascinating", "I thought about trying"... etc. These are all contrary to the stated goal. Honestly, you will have no idea what you like and don't like until you have tried many sessions. I made this clear at the very beginning.

    In my way of thinking, it is far too early to even consider a 'brain workout'. This implies repetitive, dedicated, and usually quite boring work. Most people simply do not have the focus to stick with any routine and it becomes a chore. Also for many it is a 'make or break' proposition. If they let up on the routine, then they have 'failed'. They then muster the courage to start again, in a vicious cycle. Often they don't even keep detailed enough notes to know what the results are.

    If you equate it with exercise, then at this stage you are much better off having fun while getting fit. Metaphorically, you need long walks, bike rides, swimming, etc. Not hardcore gym time to increase the number of reps you can do or the speed of the treadmill.

    AVS is for enhancing internal experiences. As in meditation, relaxing into the experience and 'non judgement' are primary pre-requisites. Meditation is an ongoing process of becoming more comfortable in your own head and the infinite worlds therein. A mind machine provides the backdrop and hypnotic sensory stimulus. It does not do the work for you. It creates a mentally stimulating inner environment. Your perception of and abilities in this environment expand over time.

    So, basically, I am suggesting, explore more. Open up more. Enjoy more. Not push harder or work smarter. The former ideas are child concepts, the latter of 'optimized' adults.

    For all new AVS users I advise that a few times a week you choose to do a session rather than watch a tv program. Think of it in the same way, for relaxation, joy, entertainment. However, in the AVS case you are creating the 'program'. It takes about the same amount of time as a sitcom but in the long run is much more beneficial. Once you have explored many sessions, and have a feel for the overall experience, and how it enhances your life, at that time, you can further your dedication in this pursuit.

    Best,
    Scott
    If you know something I don't, speak up! If maybe I know something you don't, ask away!

  7. #7

    Default Re: First experiences

    Nice ! Good luck.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: First experiences

    Hello Scott, thank you for your feedback, it makes sense. I see now that I am thinking exactly as non creative, result driven, analytical adults do

    Quote Originally Posted by neuroasis View Post
    Metaphorically, you need long walks, bike rides, swimming, etc. Not hardcore gym time to increase the number of reps you can do or the speed of the treadmill.
    Can you imagine that this is exactly my relationship to sports? I almost only do outdoor sports because they are fun, and when the weather is bad for a long time I do some workout at home on my crosstrainer, which bores me to death, so I understand exaclty what you mean!

    Quote Originally Posted by neuroasis View Post
    For all new AVS users I advise that a few times a week you choose to do a session rather than watch a tv program
    I fully agree here. TV is a waste of time at best, time you could spend learning something new or chilling out and spending time with your partner. We have banned TV from our home.

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