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Thread: Spectrastrobe, Kasina & Mind Workstation

  1. Default Spectrastrobe, Kasina & Mind Workstation

    Hi All,

    I've got the EPOC EEG system pretty well integrated into my lab now. I have five dedicated student interns and with their help I hope to get through some basic experiments in EEG-band classical conditioning this summer. As of now, all of our AVS work has been done using my Procyon, because of the way it can be specifically programmed. We've been thinking about the future of our research program and I am interested in manipulating color displays with an open-eyes display. Lately, I have been thinking about Transparent's Mind Workstation software. It seems a good fit in that it integrates with the EPOC device and can use EPOC EEG for biofeedback. Somewhere on-line, I read CraigT's article on Transparent supporting Spectra strobe in Mind Workstation 5.1. Does anybody know if this is the case? I find the Transparent pages hard to get through for specific information. Any help in this area, with some elaboration, if possible, would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance,

    John

    P.S. Isn't there a specific research forum here? I know I was posting my research ideas somewhere but I can't seem to find the threads.

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    Default Re: Spectrastrobe, Kasina & Mind Workstation

    Hi John,
    The Kasina and Mind Workstation are fully and seamlessly integrated. When you plug in your Kasina, new toolbar items appear in MWS to play the session directly through the Kasina by USB audio. Also, you can save your session directly to the Kasina's SD card without have to convert and export first. One of our goals in designing this new machine was to achieve this level of integration and with the help of Transparent's talented team this has been fully realized.

    You will find that there is much more you can do with the Kasina in MWS than with the Procyon as with SpectraStrobe you get complete programming access to all the colors.

    BTW, Neuroprogrammer 3 supports SpectraStrobe and the Kasina as well.

    Concerning your work with the EPOC, MWS is the ideal platform for using it fully. In fact, the lead software engineer at Transparent worked on some of the EPOC's algorithms. (so I am told) You have full access to all channels and sensors even without a developer's license. When you use the Kasina with this combination for stimulation and visualization, you have a wide ranging research platform.

    There is a research thread at the Transparent site but not here yet. That is a good idea though and I will contact Andy the forum admin and ask to have one added.

    We are very interested to hear of your research and if you need any assistance in setting up the Kasina with Mind Workstation or otherwise, then we are happy to help.

    Best regards,
    Scott
    Last edited by neuroasis; 06-10-2014 at 07:09 AM.
    If you know something I don't, speak up! If maybe I know something you don't, ask away!

  3. Default Re: Spectrastrobe, Kasina & Mind Workstation

    With MWS, you can easily control just about any aspect of an AVE session when using the Kasina. Intensity, color levels, even multiple waveforms along a timeline are easily adjusted in the interface. Left and right sides can be programmed independently. It is simply amazing! No other Mind Machine that I know of gives you the level of creativity and control as the Kasina. Check out the videos Scott so graciously produced and posted on this thread http://www.transparentcorp.com/commu...ws-and-kasina/ and I'm sure you will agree.

    With the Epoc and MWS, you can graph all data available (Professional), use the data to control any part of an AVE session, including light and color, 'drive' entrainment based on EEG data, as well as create visual neurofeedback games.

  4. Default Re: Spectrastrobe, Kasina & Mind Workstation

    Quote Originally Posted by brewmasher View Post
    With the Epoc and MWS, you can graph all data available (Professional), use the data to control any part of an AVE session, including light and color, 'drive' entrainment based on EEG data, as well as create visual neurofeedback games.
    Here is a question that still hasn't been answered. Does MWS work with the standard Emotiv EPOC? The confusion comes from the use of the term "Emotive EPOC" in several posts here and on the Transparent forums. In Emotiv's parlance, the term "Emotiv EPOC" refers to the $299 headset that is, in actuality, a brain control device. The term "EPOC EEG" refers to the $799 EEG headset that comes with the research and development SDK.

    I have the EPOC EEG, but if MWS really does work with the Emotiv EPOC ($299), I could probably afford to purchase a few more headsets that would greatly shorten my experiment cycles.

    The reason I asked is that the firmware for the $299 Emotiv EPOC headset was cracked as early as 2012, the publication of which led Emotiv to threaten to stop production of the $299 headset. Of course, that is lunacy because there is no way that Emotiv, given its support system, can be relying on sales of the $799 headset to be 'keeping them in business', as they claimed. What had to have made the EPOC (either version) possible, in the first place, was the prospect of an eventual penetration into the computer gaming market. If I was a prospective investor, that would be what would sell me, not the possible availability of research-grade EEG for under $1k. Emotiv's claims to the contrary are obviously fabrications. I'm a member of the Society for Neuroscience. The total membership of SfN is probably still well less than 90,000 (based on recent meeting statistics, about 40k, and extrapolations). Only a very small fraction of the members of SfN have any interest in EEG. So, even if Emotiv was to completely capture that market, they would probably looking at only a few thousand sales (i.e., not very attractive from a investment prospectus standpoint, in my opinion). Contrast that to the tens of millions of avid gamers worldwide and the potential profit associated by penetrating even a small part (e.g., 5%) of that market. The emperor really does appear to have no clothes.

    Emotiv, like many small companies with innovative technology, became overly protective of a market that has to be almost insignificant to them by now. So, it seems to me that it would be in their best interest to open up their $299 Emotiv EPOC headset by making legitimate agreements with related companies (e.g., Transparent). My guess is that the Transparent MWS users (especially those using the Standard version of MWS) outnumber research EEG neuroscientists by a considerable amount. Additionally, my guess is that the average $199 - $699 MWS user is probably not all that interested in acquiring a $799 "add-on". So, if the $299 headset doesn't work with MWS, I think that Emotiv is seriously neglecting what could be a considerable market for them.

    John
    Last edited by mosspa; 06-13-2014 at 06:00 AM. Reason: Various grammatical edits

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    Default Re: Spectrastrobe, Kasina & Mind Workstation

    Yes it works with the Consumer headset. Fully functional as mentioned above in the 'developer's license' not required. That refers to the Research SDK. Transparent had to pay a princely sum for this ability. I am often confounded by Emotiv's business practices and philosophy. Contrast it by example with Neurosky who does exactly the opposite, meaning everything is open source as far as development, although the actual algorithms are still a black box. But anyway whatever...

    I am waiting to see the release of the Emotiv Insight and if it rectifies some of these deficiencies. I definitely am not one to pre-order from them though, being a past customer with a bit of bad taste. (dry sensors anyone?)
    If you know something I don't, speak up! If maybe I know something you don't, ask away!

  6. Default Re: Spectrastrobe, Kasina & Mind Workstation

    Quote Originally Posted by neuroasis View Post
    Yes it works with the Consumer headset. Fully functional as mentioned above in the 'developer's license' not required. That refers to the Research SDK. Transparent had to pay a princely sum for this ability. I am often confounded by Emotiv's business practices and philosophy. Contrast it by example with Neurosky who does exactly the opposite, meaning everything is open source as far as development, although the actual algorithms are still a black box. But anyway whatever...

    I am waiting to see the release of the Emotiv Insight and if it rectifies some of these deficiencies. I definitely am not one to pre-order from them though, being a past customer with a bit of bad taste. (dry sensors anyone?)
    Thanks, Scott! Apparently saner minds are gaining control at Emotiv. Maybe I should approach them as a marketing director

    John

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    Default Re: Spectrastrobe, Kasina & Mind Workstation

    They are very good at marketing, excellent in fact. Product design, reliability, customer service and communication... not so much. The EPOC was their first foray though, surely in this next product line, all of that will improve.

    With my EPOC: I have a broken arm hinge, 2 sensor pods where the plastic teeth broke off, and my battery swelled and stopped charging, so I had to replace it. I have had massive green copper crystal growth which is disgusting and needs to be cleaned all the time.. pretty much every problem reported on the forums, I have had. Still it limps along and I use it. Still the best choice for MWS without BioExplorer.

    Joe's system for wearing it backwards gives a much more useful placement of electrodes for entrainment. And also at least you can lie down with it on. These early ideas of using headsets like this for gaming, just are not feasible yet. Emotiv may not have anticipated the degree to which their customer base would want these units for 'quantified self' use. Gaming got them all the press I suppose and also might have gotten around some regulation.

    Generally though I have switched to an Olimex EEG-SMT OpenEEG system with active electrodes. I pipe this into MWS with BioExplorer.
    If you know something I don't, speak up! If maybe I know something you don't, ask away!

  8. Default Re: Spectrastrobe, Kasina & Mind Workstation

    I agree with you Scott. I am on my second Epoc also. It does need quite a bit of fussing, not only to get it to work, but to keep it maintained. There is only a 90 day warranty, that is if you can get customer service in the first place. However, if treated correctly, it works great for the money. I learned many things with the first headset. It would have been nice to have known that before. The info they give on use and practice is not always the best course of action.

    I am hoping that this will improve with the Insight, which is their answer to the dry sensor debacle. Doing away with the saline sensors will solve 90% of the problems.

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    Default Re: Spectrastrobe, Kasina & Mind Workstation

    Same here. Many first time user mistakes that could have been prevented. For instance, do not take off the felt pads after each use. You are just going to be frustrated all the time, before you use the thing. And you will lose and break them. Store the EPOC with them on and then take them off every couple of weeks or so to clean them. Set up this way is actually pretty easy. Also putting the headset on backwards is easier to line up too I think. The only problem is that there 3D visualization software display is not very useful this way as everything is reversed.
    If you know something I don't, speak up! If maybe I know something you don't, ask away!

  10. Default Re: Spectrastrobe, Kasina & Mind Workstation

    Yea, I leave the pads in when I know I am going to be using it often. If you put it up, remove just the felt pads- not the whole assembly. That way the corrosion will not build up between the pad and the gold electroplate. It is easier to just put the pads back, and there is no chance of stripping the sensor assembly. The only disadvantage is that it tears the pads up quicker. I found a bit of cotton stuffed in the cup works just as well.

    If you have MWS Enterprise, export EEG driven sessions as it plays, and use those until you can put the headset back on. Maybe not as effective at real time EEG driving, but the next best thing.

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