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Thread: Entrainment vs entertainment in kasina spectra

  1. #11

    Default Re: Entrainment vs entertainment in kasina spectra

    Hi, Esthy--glad that was somewhat comprehendable! For some more serious information, try http://neuromedicstechnology.com/Research.htm. This is some older research we were involved in, primarily treatment of ADHD (insert usual caveat about MindPlace not making medical claims here...). The SBIR studies used the EEG-driven light and sound systems, and include a description of the hardware and its functions. I hope some of this might be useful to you!

    -Robert

  2. #12

    Default Re: Entrainment vs entertainment in kasina spectra

    Hi, TomC - sounds like I need to describe these stimulation variants better, and in more detail--so I'll try that with a blog posting, hopefully soon.

    Thanks for your feedback on sessions, old and new... this does help us craft better content in the future. I wrote the Proteus and Procyon sessions, though they were based on protocols we used in our earlier MasterMind and MindLab series. For example, sessions in the alpha range will ramp slowly up and down in the 9-12 Hz range, etc. The Sirius sessions were based on sessions we had licensed from an Austrian researcher who wrote his PhD using light and sound, but his approach was closer to sports physiology rather than more general use, so there tended to be some higher frequencies and more abrupt shifts than with our other systems.

    We will soon be releasing 12 LED glasses (as with the Kasina) for the Procyon, which definitely increases the amount of blue and green light passing through your closed eyelids. :-)

    Your suggestion that 3D video and audio could lead to the ultimate AVS system is an excellent one. Maybe an application running on the Oculus Rift? :-)

    Cheers,

    Robert

  3. #13

    Default Re: Entrainment vs entertainment in kasina spectra

    Thanks for your always thoughtful reply(s) Robert.

    It's nice to dream about futuristic 3d video/audio AVS machines but right now the Kasina is the best out there imho. It seems to have a lot of untapped potential and I can hardly wait to see how it all unfolds in the near future!

    Cheers,
    TomC

  4. #14

    Default Re: Entrainment vs entertainment in kasina spectra

    Using the Rift could be very interesting.
    It already lets you work with each eye and such. Wonder if it would be bright enough though.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Entrainment vs entertainment in kasina spectra

    I think it is wise to wait until they at least release Crescent Bay as a dev kit. That one sounds like it is getting really close to a useful product. http://www.howtogeek.com/206986/when...sumer-product/
    If you know something I don't, speak up! If maybe I know something you don't, ask away!

  6. Default Re: Entrainment vs entertainment in kasina spectra

    Even though it was not the intended goal of the experiment I and gearing up for (classically conditioning alpha synchrony to a musical CS), in trying to determine the parameters of the unconditioned stimulus (Procyon or Kasina fixed frequency white flicker programs), we are empirically demonstrating individual differences in optimal alpha entraining frequencies. Initially, I tested each of my 22+ student lab interns with a protocol that was 10 min baseline --> 10 min 8.5 Hz flicker with a 20% duty cycle --> 10 min baseline. What we found was that only about 30% of the participants showed evidence of significant entrainment (we are keeping the EEG side simple using a Neurosky occipital electrode, OpenVibe, and a Matlab analysis routine that is posted somewhere else in these forums). I was one of the "non-responders". When using the protocol above, my alpha activity declined a bit during the stimulation interval. This got me thinking about 'person ideal frequencies' for entrainment. The first thing we tried was using a slow ramp up then down during the stimulation interval. This did not improve my alpha synch and it actually reduced the alpha output of our reliable entrainment participants. The next thing we tried is a slightly new paradigm or fixed frequency stimulation, but varying the frequencies starting at 7 Hz and moving up to 11.5 Hz in .5 Hz increments. Actually, we started at 11.5 Hz and bounced around. So far, I have found that I respond maximally to frequencies between 9.5 and 11.5 Hz. I am planing on working with the original creator of the Matlab routine to modify it so that it pitputs the frequency power spectra in 10 sec bins. When we finish that, I intend to try one 30 min session with 3 min baseline --> 3 min x frequency flicker --> 3 min baseline --> 3 min different frequency --> etc. What do any of you who have thought about this think?

    John

  7. #17

    Thumbs up Re: Entrainment vs entertainment in kasina spectra

    I think that most of us respond best/easiest to the alpha freq's (7.5-12.5 hz). Also, everyone has an alpha sweet-spot that you can find yourself by playing around with freq's in this range to find one just 'feels right' to you. Easiest to do with avs machines like the Proteus and Sirius that have a manual mode, but also pretty easy to make and listen to these diff freq's by making your own sessions (with the editor or np3 software) and playing them on your kasina. My sweet-spot seems to be 9.5hz and this has not changed for many years now.

    I also find it best to start off any session with at least 5-10 minutes in this alpha sweet-spot before slowly ramping to different freq's.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Entrainment vs entertainment in kasina spectra

    There are certainly strong indicators that individuals have characteristic Peak Alpha Frequencies that they respond most strongly to, likely through resonance. It is a good protocol to seek out and identify these in a methodical way. The question would become would this be considered 'entrainment' as classically understood? Or it is more so a reinforcement of ongoing brainwave activity? To demonstrate entrainment you would need to move a relative degree from baseline.

    Your 30 minute study sounds well-formed. 10 minutes is short session especially under observational pressures.

    In your follow up questions are you determining the subjective level of inner calm or 'chatter' that the participants experienced. In short sessions for many this is the first impediment to overcome to begin to respond to the stimulus.

    Your research is fascinating and I thank you for the reports. I am very much interested to hear more of your progress.

    Best,
    Scott
    Last edited by neuroasis; 01-25-2015 at 01:38 PM.
    If you know something I don't, speak up! If maybe I know something you don't, ask away!

  9. Default Re: Entrainment vs entertainment in kasina spectra

    Thanks for all the great info!!

    My personal experience about the sweetspot freq:

    For years I have tried different freq and my best respons freq is 10 hz. When I use this freq for a while, everything becomes more clear, more relaxed focus..
    Iam a musician and when I have a gig, I like to do a session for about 20-30 minutes (if I have the time) in that 10 hz range. It makes playing music more easy, gives me
    more freedom, more creativity and can play some hours straight without feeling tired.
    The most of my own sessions are based around that freq, some a little bit lower.

    Greetings,

    Dominique

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Entrainment vs entertainment in kasina spectra

    Having sessions that sweep for PAF are most effective for the broad range of people. That is why many onboard sessions explore wide swaths of the alpha band. It is generally considered very beneficial to experience increased alpha activity with relaxation and stress relief being widely reported.

    One interesting thing, somewhere, I believe on his blog, CraigT noted that a characteristic of stimulating the PAF was that the eyelids 'trembled' and vibrated along with the frequency. That is more strongly than at other frequencies (if one is inclined to experience this phenomena across a range of frequencies as some have reported to me) I notice this too in EEG driving sessions. I couldn't say whether this feature was widespread and is a reliable indicator in lieu of taking EEG readings. Still interesting and seems reasonable due to resonance effects.

    John, have you explored this in research?
    Last edited by neuroasis; 02-10-2015 at 05:08 AM.
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