Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21

Thread: Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

  1. Smile Re: Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

    Quote Originally Posted by filemon View Post
    ok, but can I do EGG-driven with neurosky in the MWS?, I only can see bioptimization in the MWS, and they says that I need bioexplorer for do the EGG-driven but bioexplorer don?t support neurosky I believe, I?m not sure.
    I have heard that you can use Neurosky + Bioexplorer to do EEG driving. Kind of counter productive to spend $425 to get a 1 channel $99 unit to work, when you can just use the $299 Emotiv.

    Neuroasis, do you think it's possible to construct a session that controls binaural/monaural beats with the Neurosky such as you did with the Thoughtstream? I don't have a Neurosky to try. I think that would be a good compromise. It won't be true EEG driving, but you will still be controlling the session based on your brainwaves.

    Thanks Filemon, I am using the NP3 and not the MWS, so don’t know if the ADHD sessions in both programs are the same. The NP3 just has basic one in Cognition-Attention.
    The sessions are basically the same. Any beta session can be used for ADHD. If you have purchased NP3, you can download more sessions from the Member's Area. I particularity like Dr. Ruth Olmstead's 2 part protocol.

  2. Default Re: Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

    Indeed, SR brewmasher, the Emotiv is much better than neurosky and also would serve for other things like brain mapping, I certainly will buy it, the better of NeuroSky is its extreme easy of use, you put it in seconds and always gives excellent signal, because it rests directly on the skin, Emotiv is much more complex to get a clear signal, the problem is that it is a single electrode, although the study of attention is in the frontal lobe , and perhaps the NeuroSky not less good that the Emotiv for that, I'm not sure, I hope someone know more discuss it.
    the neurosky can be used for bioptimization like the toughstream, but be carefull and buy the mindwave, not the mindset because this can?t be used at the same time with the proycon or proteus
    you will need some imagination for understand me, !I don?t speak english!

  3. #13

    Default Re: Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

    Hi Filemon,
    Have you done any experiment to prove that Neurosky is functioning or it is just placebo. If you did any experiment, can you share what you did and what were the outcomes.

    Love to hear from you soon.
    Thanks
    Raj

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Tripping the Light Fantastic
    Posts
    1,329
    Blog Entries
    31

    Default Re: Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

    The inexpensive EEGs such as the NeuroSky and Emotiv products are marketed as Brain to Computer Interface devices. This is a different product category that likely serves to avoid the necessary expenses and scrutiny of being listed as medical devices. Thus, they cannot really broadcast certain types of data from their raw streams. You must buy a developer's or research version to get these features. The Emotiv Research SDK costs $750 and it is the only version that works with BioExplorer. Neurosky does work with BioExplorer out of the box but as brewmasher says, it is only 1 channel so kind of pointless for the additional $400 or so that BioExplorer costs.

    As far as EEG driving, I'm not sure exactly what it is that you would want to do but you can easily use the data from either of the BCI headsets to influence your sessions in MWS... even far beyond BioOptimization. The only challenge is the raw data that is output from these devices has its own scale of values that are not able to easily be recognized as brainwave frequencies in Hertz. So, what you are dealing with is a relative reading.

    You are looking at a balance of the brainwave bands and how they are changing over time. This is sufficient information for Neurofeedback applications. You'll have to judge for yourself how it may compare to medical grade EEGs but from my usage thus far the relative scaling of the values seems reasonable and it is of great value to have this information to include in sessions. I will be releasing more works that include this data in the near future.

    For now, I have created the following Mind Workstation session that may be of benefit to the users on this thread. Here is the description:

    ---------------------------------------------------
    This session encourages Beta production and discourages Theta production. It requires the Neurosky MindWave or MindSet. An AudioStrobe track is included for use with Mind Machines.

    It uses the Neurosky EEG device to track the amplitude of Theta waves.

    As Theta wave amplitude increases the following actions occur:

    1. The value of the Entrainment track is scaled between 14Hz and 18Hz.

    2. The Amplitude Entrainment Intensity is increased on the Pink Noise track. High Theta values produce more intense 'clicking' and crisper pulses.

    3. A Binaural Beat track in a Harmonic Box X configuration follows the Entrainment track. The pitch of the carrier wave is an inverse of the Attention value from the Neurosky headset. The pitch is at its lowest when the Attention value is the highest. As Attention drifts the pitch of the track increases.

    4. An AudioStrobe track is controlled by the Entrainment value. The Flashing Intensity of the track is controlled by the Meditation value from the Neurosky headset. As the Meditation value increases the flashing becomes more intense.

    A thunderstorm track and wind chimes are included for ambience. A Graphing engine records your results for later study.

    This session is designed to allow the user to encourage Beta wave production and maintain Attention levels with Neurofeedback.

    Designed by Scott Hendrickson.
    ----------------------------------------------

    No medical claims are made or implied. Use at your discretion.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    If you know something I don't, speak up! If maybe I know something you don't, ask away!

  5. Default Re: Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

    I am using the "home-of-attention" to train attention, I have little time, so too early to know if it works, has a record of success, if over time this is increasing, then we know that works, also carried a record of graphics, the theta wave should decrease with time, and the graphics do not lie, another thing is its accuracy, but the relative level of they are accurate.
    the only way to know if something works is with the own experimentation, but the results may be slow to arrive, especially if we have any chronic disease, the type of ADHD, we will not resolve in two days we have been dragging something years.
    a greeting.
    you will need some imagination for understand me, !I don?t speak english!

  6. #16

    Default Re: Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

    Hi guys, I’ve aquired a Neurosky Mindwave and am learning how to use it to have better results. Could you tell me how to use with NP3 or Procyon sessions and save/print file graph and chart? I’ll also like to know how to see session overview and how to compare sessions in order to see my progress
    Neuroasis: I’d like to try “Increase Beta with Neurosky Feedback.mws” but I can’t open mws files. Could you please save it in mp3? Thanks, sam

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Tripping the Light Fantastic
    Posts
    1,329
    Blog Entries
    31

    Default Re: Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

    Hi Sam,
    I think you will enjoy using the MindWave. Using this device with NeuroProgrammer you will only have the BioOptimization features. Basically, it will use the readings from the Neurosky to optimize the session parameters based on your response over multiple uses. It is a fully automatic process. You can view a report of the readings and the adjustments that are made.
    Advanced features like configurable graphing and programmed responses to readings require Mind Workstation. This includes all the tracking that I am doing in "Increase Beta with Neurosky Feedback" session. So the same tools are not present in NeuroProgrammer and thus the session cannot be converted and still have all the functions. The session will work with the trial version of Mind Workstation and allow you to evaluate how it fits your needs.

    Please keep us updated on your thoughts and progress.

    Scott
    If you know something I don't, speak up! If maybe I know something you don't, ask away!

  8. Default Re: Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

    Quote Originally Posted by sam View Post
    Hi guys, I’ve aquired a Neurosky Mindwave and am learning how to use it to have better results. Could you tell me how to use with NP3 or Procyon sessions and save/print file graph and chart? I’ll also like to know how to see session overview and how to compare sessions in order to see my progress
    Neuroasis: I’d like to try “Increase Beta with Neurosky Feedback.mws” but I can’t open mws files. Could you please save it in mp3? Thanks, sam

    You will need Mind Workstation Professional to graph sessions and use the Neurosky to control track functions. NP3 is limited to biooptimization. You can view which frequencies have been tried, and which frequency is the optimal by going to Settings> Program Settings> Biooptimization> View Biooptimization data.

  9. #19

    Default Re: Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

    Thank you very much for your prompt reaction. I'll try it like that to see what it will bring me. Cheers, Sam

  10. Default Re: Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

    Just digging in and getting started with this fascinating stuff - I think there's a lot of potential here in combining bio and neurofeedback with AVS.

    So far, I feel the most relevant applications could be the following:

    - AVS sessions while having heart rate variability monitor or Thoughtstream connected - this could help not only in validating the physiological effects of a relaxation protocol. Both tools also provide auditive feedback which could be helpful to reinforce the relaxation process.

    - I use the Neurosky Mindwave in combination with a free Windows software, NeuroExperimenter. It allows you not only to define specific bands and combinations or functions thereof for training (different from HoA which only provides limited preset protocols), but you can also monitor EEG activity during a baseline and experimental condition and then get an analysis of differences between the two (e.g. you create a 20' session with a 10' baseline, then read for 10' followed by an open-eye KASINA session to find out in the analysis which bands have increased/decreased. I prefer open-eye in these experiments because closing your eyes has a strong effect on Alpha, an artifact which would mess up any real comparison between the two stages.)

    - With NP3 and MWS, you could also leverage the MindWave for BioOptimization to find the specific frequency within a select range which you best respond to.


    Do you use these tools for additional objectives? Would be interested to learn more about how these can be integrated to improve overall experience and effectiveness.

    One topic that I'm really interested in is EEG driving, but the price tag seems a bit high at this point - plus, my cute little Neurosky Mindwave is probably not the best tool for this specific application - from what I've read in the research literature, FP points are only used in very few protocols which limits the range of this entry-level gadget. Personally, I was interested in the Emotiv but shying away as there does not seem to be a reliable dealer in Europe, plus heard from some folks who couldn't make it work - so would definitely want to make sure customer support is easy to reach and reliable to respond. The good news is, all this stuff should become easier to use (think dry contact points vs. handling lube on your skull) and hopefully more available with lower prices as technology advances.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Using thought stream to activate
    By ateeq in forum Thoughtstream
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 11-17-2010, 09:55 AM
  2. AVS vs Biofeedback
    By Bravo in forum General Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-19-2010, 04:15 AM
  3. Binaural - 'Binoptical' just a thought...
    By crippin in forum General Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-17-2008, 09:47 PM
  4. biofeedback
    By dnorric in forum General Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-13-2008, 05:51 PM
  5. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 02-12-2008, 04:34 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •