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Thread: Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

  1. #1

    Smile Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

    Hi, could someone help me with these questions?
    To treat my ADHD I recently bought the NP3 and the Procyon AVS, and am still learn how to use them for better results. After reading the details on Biofeedback and some article I am wondering if the Thought stream Biofeedback System with Mental Games Software was not better, or could not be complementary to help me achieving my goal.
    I've been using with satisfaction sessions ?Cognition-Attention? of NP3 with AVS, especially Attention & Hyperactivity Help and Theta for Affirmations or Hypnosis (Alternating). I?m a bit confused about these many sessions and don't know yet how to create one.
    1. Could you please tell me which one of these three (NP3, Procyon AVS and Biofeedback) could the best help me, or how I can use them more effectively? I know it is good for me because I don't take Ritalin anymore thanks to SMR and the sessions mentioned above.
    I'm about 40 and have been suffering for this handicap since my childhood. 8 months ago I have been diagnosed ADHD combined types. In his book "Treatment of psychoneurosis through reeducation of brain control" doctor Roger Vittoz describes very good the problem I have, and I also believe that mastering his exercises on "Receptivity" could definitively cure me. But they are really not easy for me, although they seem to be simple. An English translation of this book by Christian H. Godefroy is "How to Control Your Brain At Will" can be found on his website club-positif.com for free
    2. Do you know if/how NP3, AVS or Thought stream Biofeedback could help develop/improve receptivity, at least the 3 most essential (hearing, sight and touch)? If yes with program/ devices/ sessions could be more appropriate?
    I have lot problems of memory especially short memory, consciousness, self-awareness, orientation, balance, self-control and so. This has a very negative effect on communication, presentation and all part of my life. I don't have sleep problem like many other. I can rather say that I have abundant sleep, and sometime too much, and when awake I don't feel rest but tire with heavy empty head.
    3. Which sessions do you think could help me the most?
    Thank you so much in advance for your support.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

    Hello Sam and welcome to the forum,

    I want to refer you to the discussion with filemon at this thread http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...=8329#post8329 . He had been gathering EEG data with a Neurosky MindSet. This data is showing a great deal of waking Theta in the readings. This is characteristic of some of the mapped brainwaves of users who have been diagnosed with ADHD by medical professionals.

    Notice that the NP3 session Attention & Hyperactivity you have been using is strongly weighted toward introducing high Beta patterns specifically 18Hz for the left hemisphere while at the same time stimulating the right hemisphere with SMR frequencies weighted toward 13Hz Alpha. This is a recommended protocol if in the past you have responded to treatment with stimulants such as Ritalin. It is necessary to utilize this program for an extended period to assess benefits.

    You might want to read this research article for more information http://www.avstim.com/manuals/olmstead_dissertation.pdf .

    I wonder why it is that you have also chosen to include a Theta based program? This might be contraindicated. Is it simply an interest in the state of consciousness or has your reading lead you to include it? Or is it that you are including affirmations in your practice?

    It has been a few years since I have browsed the Control Your Brain At Will book but I remember that it was interesting. I have relocated it and will review it.

    To be honest, I think that you might benefit most by introducing some EEG monitoring into your practice. The Neurosky MindSet is an affordable device. It can assist with ascertaining levels of Attention vs. Meditation which are composite states of higher and lower frontal lobe activation. With it, you can begin to get a clearer idea of your characteristic brainwave patterns and discover what areas might most benefit from AVS stimulation. Note we do not sell nor support this device although many on this forum have one of these products including me.

    The ThoughtStream can also be used to understand how it is that your training is affecting your stress levels and can also act as a valuable ally to gain a sense of personal attunement. All of these devices can be used together in a full spectrum Neurofeedback/Biofeedback program.

    Hope this helps, if not ask further questions...

    Scott

    Disclaimer: All statements are personal opinion only. I am not a trained medical doctor and make no definitive claims of efficacy of treatment or proven fitness for a particular outcome.
    Last edited by neuroasis; 02-17-2012 at 10:07 PM. Reason: Changed MindWave to MindSet
    If you know something I don't, speak up! If maybe I know something you don't, ask away!

  3. #3

    Default Re: Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

    Hi Neuroasis!
    Thank you so much for your prompt reaction to my message and the explanations you gave me. I looked the website of Neurosky and I am planning to buy the MindWave. On the note of that product description I read that there is MindWave intended for usage in 60 Hz regions, such as the US and one other to be using in a 50 Hz region, such as Europe. Is that applicable to all brainwave machines? I ask that because I live in the Netherlands and I bought my Procyon from MindPlace US.
    I find you discussion with Filemon very interesting. Do you mean that the MindWave is easier to use and an easier solution for a beginner, but a part of that you should better recommend the Mindset?
    I use the Theta for Affirmations or Hypnosis - Alternating only for hypnosis, just because the wizard of NP3 recommended me that. I attach here a copy of the book of Vittoz
    Thank you again for your support.

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    Default Re: Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

    Hi Sam,
    A potential problem that people run into when undertaking a program using light and sound stimulation is that if there are underlying medical or neurological conditions they may choose programs that could reinforce the unwanted brainwave patterns. For instance, Theta based sessions often by their description seem to be the most interesting... these brainwave patterns have been associated with hypnosis, hypnagogia, dreaming, trance.. etc.

    However, for certain conditions such as ADHD an overabundance of waking Theta waves could already be produced. So you see that using programs that are designed to increase Theta wave production is potentially amplifying the underlying condition.

    That is why it is wise to consult a medical professional if you wish to experiment with brainwave stimulation for treatment.

    Still, the NP3 session you have chosen to try for ADHD is a good starting point and with repeated use you will be able to determine if it is working for you. After using daily for a month you will probably have a good measure of the effect.

    For a new purchase to use with the Procyon, the MindWave is a better choice. With it you will be able to use the audio from the Procyon or from NP3 much easier because it doesn't have headphones built in.

    You will have no problem with the Procyon in your country as it is powered by batteries or USB.

    Hope this helps. Please update us with your progress and ask more questions if needed.

    Scott
    If you know something I don't, speak up! If maybe I know something you don't, ask away!

  5. Default Re: Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

    SR neuroasis well advised to you, as always, I tell him I am researching on my own and so we can benefit mutually from our experiences and share them here to serve others.
    The MWS has a program for ADHD, one basic and one advanced by Mrs. Olmstead, according to my studies, you need one month at a rate of half an hour daily training to stabilize brain synapses, to catch a new habit or change an established one.
    I use the TS for bioptimizar the MWS program for ADHD and use Proteus to listen and watch the show, but my intention is to use the NeuroSky to use the utility "EGG-driven" is better than bioptimizacion to improve "drag "as it adapts to your brain mapping, which is where we have the problem, not the GSR, and I'm not sure to get more relaxation is a sign that we are moving in the right way, that I have to investigate more.
    I hope this serve to you, a greating.

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    Default Re: Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

    Please do share your experiences. You have a lot of devices and a good bit of data that will benefit others. I'm glad you figured out the BioOptimization features of NP3 and MWS as I will eventually make videos describing these... but my to do list is long....

    As you say, EEG is an invaluable component to any serious self study program...

    I think relaxation is a very important component to creating a baseline for meditation and self mastery... so the ThoughtStream is important as a guide to this state. Having said that, stress is a necessary process for 'pushing our limits' and GSR can reflect that as well.... and stress will likely increase in the short term while learning new things.
    If you know something I don't, speak up! If maybe I know something you don't, ask away!

  7. Default Re: Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

    I promise you I will share my experiences and research here, the problem is that ADHD is a big problem and I have to solve it before anything else, I'm at it, a problem I have is that the MWS does not support the NeuroSky to EGG-driven, and neither does the Bioexplorer and bioera, do you know which program would serve me?.
    The Emotiv serves, but I like more the NeuroSky for its simplicity, if I can not use the NeuroSky, i?ll buy the Emotiv , although I would like to wait for the dry electrodes.
    a greeting.
    you will need some imagination for understand me, !I don?t speak english!

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

    MWS and NP3 do support Neurosky natively... I can connect them without problems... don't even need to have special driver. Emotiv (which I have) is harder because of some many values that cannot be read as an average of values.. BioExplorer requires Research SDK... I have consumer headset...
    If you know something I don't, speak up! If maybe I know something you don't, ask away!

  9. Default Re: Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

    ok, but can I do EGG-driven with neurosky in the MWS?, I only can see bioptimization in the MWS, and they says that I need bioexplorer for do the EGG-driven but bioexplorer don?t support neurosky I believe, I?m not sure.
    you will need some imagination for understand me, !I don?t speak english!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Are NP3, AVS and Thought stream Biofeedback complementary?

    Hi guys,

    As I said it earlier, I started last month with these devices, and think I must be a bit cautious. That is why I’m advancing step by step, even that I have very good results till know. I haven’t acquired the mindware yet, and think it will help me making important steps when I get it. I have not used the bio optimization yet.

    Thanks Neuroasis, I’ve change the theta based program to an alpha based program named in NP3 Alpha for Visualization Alternating, and the outcome is pretty good.
    Thanks Filemon, I am using the NP3 and not the MWS, so don’t know if the ADHD sessions in both programs are the same. The NP3 just has basic one in Cognition-Attention.

    Cheers,
    Sam

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