Other compatible software? ...

Hi, I'm interested in "Mindplace Thoughtstream USB Personal Biofeedback" but I have some doubts about...

1. I wonder if it works with VIM LABS Light software. Anyone has test Thoughtstream with this software? or other real time analysis acquisition and representation programs?

http://www.verim.de/verim-lab/verimlab_setup.exe

2. Are any technical information about comunication, formats and information data structures that are passed in real time between device and computer software ("USB interface software")?

Thank you very much,

Best Regards.

Hello and Welcome!

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Originally Posted by galvanic

1. I wonder if it works with VIM LABS Light software. Anyone has test Thoughtstream with this software? or other real time analysis acquisition and representation programs?

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I had a look on the Verim web site and it's really difficult to tell if the Verim 3.0 software does or does not work with the Thoughtstream. They mention the Thoughtstream on various places on the web site but, even after looking at the manual, it's just not clear whether or not it is supported. I would recommend you send them an e-mail and ask. Maybe post the answer once you find out for the benefit of others wondering about this!

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2. Are any technical information about comunication, formats and information data structures that are passed in real time between device and computer software ("USB interface software")?

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There is some information here. If you have any further questions about the data format, please feel free to reply in that thread.

Let us know if you need any other information that will help in your decision! :eusa_think:

VERIM is now compatible with the ThoughtStream USB; we just don't have experience with that software yet. VERIM grew out of Mental Games, becoming quite a bit more sophisticated and expensive. Once we have some experience with it we may start selling it ourselves, but in the meantime you can order it directly from VERIM.
-Robert

Thank you Robert for clearing that up!
Are there 2 different software versions or does the same version work with the Thoughtstream and the Mind-Reflection?

Hi,

Thank you both for the information. You are very kind.

Well, I have contacted VERIM and asked them about. They have pointed me that VERIM Lab Light is not working with the ThoughtStream USB currently. But they may include a driver when the professional version is released.

However it seems ThoughtStream USB works with other software from VERIM (ie: mental games).

It would be very useful if the TS USB manufacturer provides drivers and documentation on the communication protocol by USB in order we can build own computer applications when needed.

Regards.

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Originally Posted by galvanic

It would be very useful if the TS USB manufacturer provides drivers and documentation on the communication protocol by USB in order we can build own computer applications when needed.

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Did you have a chance to look at the information in the thread I linked to in my earlier reply?

Yes, I've looked it. But I have not been able to identify the information that helps to program the device. Specifically I mean the minimim technical information (driver, USB protocol and mode used, api library or whatever needed to do so...) to communicate with the device using Java, C+, Python or any programming language, with the goal of making conductivity readings in real time within customized programs.

Oh, Ok.

To communicate with the Thoughstream, it's just serial data. Communication is one-way, out of the Thoughtstream only. So if you know how to do serial communication in your programming, it's as simple as that.
The COM port settings are 19200 baud, N,8,1, no handshaking.

The SiLabs driver creates a VCP (Virtual Com Port) when the Thoughstream is plugged in.

I wrote a small program that spits out the raw data from the TS written in VB.NET, so let me know if I can help with your project.

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Originally Posted by Andy

Oh, Ok.

To communicate with the Thoughstream, it's just serial data. Communication is one-way, out of the Thoughtstream only. So if you know how to do serial communication in your programming, it's as simple as that.
The COM port settings are 19200 baud, N,8,1, no handshaking.

The SiLabs driver creates a VCP (Virtual Com Port) when the Thoughstream is plugged in.

I wrote a small program that spits out the raw data from the TS written in VB.NET, so let me know if I can help with your project.

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Thank you very much Andy,

To take a look at the part of your program that manages the communication with TS SUB would be fantastic and from a great help.
I assume that the data are received in a buffer from a RS232 virtual connection... Do you know what exact information is transmitted, in what order and format are stored, and in which frequency does it happen?. I have not been able to find this data.

On the other hand I would want to add that in the "Thought Stream Interface" Software I miss another real time graph (in a different color) representing the relative % change in resistivity or conductivity over some time interval (a kind of derivative function). It helps a better control the variability in real time... In fact VERIM LAB Light software already incorporate this feature ("Relative Local Change", fixed at 2 seconds I think). But if time interval could to be chosen according our need by program options, it would be even much better.

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Originally Posted by galvanic

Thank you very much Andy,

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No problem!

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To take a look at the part of your program that manages the communication with TS SUB would be fantastic and from a great help.
I assume that the data are received in a buffer from a RS232 virtual connection... Do you know what exact information is transmitted, in what order and format are stored, and in which frequency does it happen?. I have not been able to find this data.

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It was in the thread that I linked to previously. See here.
It's the ADC value and a timestamp.

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On the other hand I would want to add that in the "Thought Stream Interface" Software I miss another real time graph (in a different color) representing the relative % change in resistivity or conductivity over some time interval (a kind of derivative function). It helps a better control the variability in real time... In fact VERIM LAB Light software already incorporate this feature ("Relative Local Change", fixed at 2 seconds I think). But if time interval could to be chosen according our need by program options, it would be even much better.

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That would be very cool if you were able to write something that does this.

I've attached my program which was more designed to find COM ports than anything else, not specifically for what you're doing.

If you hook up your TS to your computer, put on the sensors, start the TS then run the program, open the correct port at 19200 baud, it will display the raw data coming from the TS.

I would like to know whether it solved the problem of compatibility Thoughstream and VIM LABS Light - I really want to try it. If you can explain how to do it?

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Originally Posted by krosskin

I would like to know whether it solved the problem of compatibility Thoughstream and VIM LABS Light - I really want to try it. If you can explain how to do it?

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You would need to check with Verim to find out if they support the ThoughtStream yet.

There is a version of VERIM which is compatible with the ThoughtStream--please contact them directly for more information.

-Robert

You probably know but NeuroProgrammer and Mind Workstation support the Thoughtstream.

And what version of Neuro-Programmer supports Thugntstream? - Just on my old laptop, there Neuro-Programmer 2

Neuro Programmer 3 definitely does with its BioOptimization feature.

Unfortunately I only have 2 neuro programmer - I downloaded a trial version of neuro programmer 3 and mind workstation - but I do not know how to enable them function biofeedback. It is possible that in the trial version is no such option?

In NP3 it is called BioOptimization. You use the BioOptimization Settings in the Settings menu. In MWS there are wizards under the Biofeedback menu.

The trial version of MWS this feature is disabled - I'd like to try before you buy. In NP3 I include in Function BioOptimization but how to enable session? Or I do not understand something?

I understand you wanting to preview these features. It has been so long since I did the trial version I don't remember what is enabled and not. I do assure you though that the biofeedback features and Mind Workstation in general are very powerful. You can assign biofeedback to control almost anything. I use the ThoughtStream in conjunction with Mind Workstation to relax a certain percentage from my starting point (200% usually) before delivering deeper entrainment frequencies or affirmations. I get feedback on my ongoing state with the pitch or speed of the entrainment track based on the TS reading. If my biofeedback gets lower then the entrainment frequency gets lower. These are examples.

In MWS and NP3 the BioOptimization features are automatic optimizers for sessions. You don't do anything but set the state change to watch (relaxation, activation) and every time you play back a session it tries out different frequencies to discover what effects you the most. It is powerful but subtle and takes several sessions to build a strong picture of settings that work best.

Hope this helps.

Topic has moved away from Verim, so I have a new thread here to continue this discussion.