40Hz gamma Blue LED sessions for Alzheimers?

Hi all,

I'm sure some people saw this paper a few days ago. I have family and friends who are beginning to suffer from Alzheimers and this would be a phenomal experiment to test in them.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/...nst-alzheimers

Basically they pulsed blue LEDs at 40hz for an hour and Alzheimers protein aggregates were reduced significantly:

After being given one hour of flickering light each day for a week, scientists saw a 60% reduction of harmful amyloid plaques in the brains of mice, and hope to replicate the results in humans.

There seems to be impairment in gamma waves in the alzheimer brain and I assume this increased synchronization at the gamma range and brought it back?

My question is 2 fold:

1. Can the LEDs in Kasina flicker at 40Hz? I believe the mice were just in a cage with a single LED pulsing, so I don't think each eye was independent, but I can pull the entire study if anyone needs it to find out.

2. What sort of audio would be helpful with a simple program running at 40Hz? I assume 40Hz is too wide for a binaural beat.

This is not really specific to Kasina, but I own a Kasina, so any program that could be used on the Kasina would be helpful!

Does such a program exist already? Thanks in advance!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beef2

1. Can the LEDs in Kasina flicker at 40Hz?

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A KBS session can flicker lights up to 65hz. AudioStrobe can do up to 1000hz and SpectraStrobe hasn't been tested, but I would imagine it's in the same ballpark as AS.

Hi Beef2,

I am new to Kasina ( bought it a month ago), but not new to brainwave entrainement. I am currently learning to use the Kasina Simple Editor, in order to create simple sessions. I am interested in the 40 Hz frequency, and work with it - it is a good frequency for meditation, especially compassion meditation.

I have just created a simple Gamma 40hz session of 60mins. For the sound entrainment, I have chosen an Isochronic beat (40 hz), on a carrier frequency of 80hz - I feel 40hz can get irritating when carried by a high pitch, and more calming with a bass sound carrier.

It is possible to create a 40Hz binaural beat, but that's not the best way to go, in my opinion. Binaural beats are good to produce frequencies otherwise too low for the human ear, like 7,8 Hz, or 12,5 hz. At 40 Hz, you could easily use as sound entrainment a pure 40 Hz flat tone, as most people will hear frequencies above 20 Hz. But the basic kasina editor do not allow this option, and anyway, many will feel a 40 Hz tone is too low. 80 Hz may still be low for some, but That can be edited easily. I like to go on higher octave of the entrainement beat value for a better entrainment effect. For higher octaves, you multiply by 2, as much time as you want, so 40Hz x 2 x 2 would give a 160 Hz carrier, still in tune with the 40hz entrainment ( But as I said, Gamma can get irritating at higher pitch).

Once on the Kasina, played on KBS mode, using the down button to get to color 6 gives blue flashing light on left and right. ( For those interested in compassion meditation, I prefer color set #10, which yields a nice turquoise, a color more in line with compassion/higher heart center)

For those looking for entertainment, it's not an entertaining session, but it works for whoever wants a 40Hz brain entrainment.

I would have upload here the KBS file, which is quite small ( 4 Ko), but I may not post attachments at this time, probably because this is my first post on the forum ( I will upload it when I will be able to ). But you can try it with the Kasina Editor, it is not very complicated to do with the Wizard.

---EDIT:

My account has been granted the right to upload attachments ( thanks!). So here is my simple 40 Hz Gamma session, with a 60 minutes duration. You can also easily edit it with the Kasina Session Editor, to your liking. Give me some feedback if you try it !

Well, after writing my previous message, I have found a way to produce a pure 40hz tone with the Kasina ( or any other flat tone frequency with no binaural or isochronic beat, for that matter) with the Kasina Session Editor, by creating a 40 hz binaural beat, and then modifying the right frequency in each segment back to 40Hz to match the left pitch, either in the Editor or Grid tab. Anyway I prefer the 80Hz tone carrying a 40 Hz isochronic tone I have put in my Gamma-40 session.

Quantum, you are fantastic! I created a very basic 40hz program using the simple editor as well but I had no clue what to do as far as sound so I didn't even plug in the earphones. And shut all the LEDs off except the blue ones.

I used it last night and the pulses were so fast that I honestly couldn't even see anything but a solid light with eyes closed, so instead I opened my eyes and watched the flickering LEDs directly. Did you notice the same?

I'll grab your program and run through it as soon as I am off from work today and let you know how it went.

If you have any further changes or updates to the 40hz program and want me to try it out, I'd be happy to give it a shot and report back.

Thanks so much again!

Quantum, I noticed the same issue with my program. The flicker is so fast that I can't really see it at all with closed eyes. I would assume open eyes works just as well though in this case since I doubt you could control the eyes in the mice studies. I will try it for a week and report back. let me know if you have any luck!

Hi Beef2,

Thanks for your positive words. It is quite normal that you do not see the same kind of flicker as the one that can be seen at slower frequencies, but be sure that your brain do perceive that 40hz frequency. In fact, when I first began working with gamma frequencies, I had to go slowly, as with anything new of course, but I really felt at first that over 5 to 10 minutes of it was too much, and had to go slowly. I suggest anybody not to go for one hour of gamma at first. We have to treat ourselves with more kindness than how lab rats are treated :)

When I use this program with closed eyes, I see patterns in the light background. It is not necessarily flickers, but more like vibrating patterns, like those usually seen in fast flashing frequencies. Those patterns are usually build around a centered spot, and from there, you can perceive either spirals, or concentric circles, or rays going outward from that fixed center point. It can look like a flower pattern, or a mandala. The way you perceive it depends of how your brain interpret the light signals. Try relax more while running the program, focus on your breath, and calmly look for this center point, right in the middle of your mental screen. Unless you have the DeepVision goggles, I think it is better not to look at the LEDs with eyes opened, it is too direct. Also, only diffuse light, like with the DeepVision goggles, or like with closed eyelids with the regular goggles, can produce those patterns I talk about, in your perceptual field. I think that, after some time, your brain will get used to that 40Hz and you will perceive more than a solid screen of light. If after some time you see no improvement, try to step down to a slower frequency, like 25 hz, and if you see flickers and patterns there, then go up to 30Hz, and so on, and you will eventually get to 40Hz.

As a back up alternative, you can try the MoodLight online strobe and use your computer screen in a dark room for a 40Hz flickering:
http://moodlight.org/#319966

Do you like and practice meditation too ? Gamma waves are great with compassion meditation. I try to build a little more complex program for gamma meditation, but the basic editor cannot put more than one binaural beat per segment, so I will have to either see if I can do it through Audacity, or have to buy another software. I am just beginning with the Kasina, so I will read a bit on this forum about how others build more complex sessions.

Let me know how it goes for you!

So, all of this discussion about 40hz strobe therapy for Alzheimer's (see the MIT research released in early December) has us intrigued, so we're crowdfunding to build an affordable light that can deliver that type of therapy. The crowdfunding is at http://indiegogo.com/at/flickerthing

Wow, thanks for highlighting that article. Sounds amazing!

Just one question: in the Guardian article, it doesn't mention that it was BLUE light - did you find that in another reference to this research project?

I read that long intensive blue light exposure could induce photoreceptor damage - if that is correct, it would be great if a different frequency could be used with equal benefits (especially as we are talking about hours of exposure here).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4734149/
from this source: "blue light can also induce photoreceptor damage. Thus, it is important to consider the spectral output of LED-based light sources to minimize the danger that may be associated with blue light exposure"

We may need to curb our enthusiasm a bit :-/

Seems like evoking gamma-modulations in humans EEG is less accessible:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10591899

but maybe someone can test this with the gamma session provided in this thread? i know scott did some eeg readings with other sessions and it was evident that there was a frequency-specific response in some bands.

The exciting bit is that gamma oscillations might be therapeutic. The brain has some natural states in which these can be induced, including movement and exercise. The current research suggests that the light is only affecting visual cortex in the environmental lighting paradigm. Of course, the earlier comments are correct also that humans might react differently and not entrain gamma oscillations (even in visual cortex) through gamma light flickering.

Alzheimer's disease lacks effective therapy, therefore it's reasonable that people are seeking low-risk alternatives and willing to "take a shot" on coconut oil or gamma light therapy. One of the easiest ways to try this out is to follow this tutorial How to Build a Gamma 40 Hz LED Dimmer.

Hello, all--I've uploaded a Kasina SpectraStrobe 40 Hz, 20 minute session to our soundcloud account: https://soundcloud.com/mindplace No audio entrainment as I find that irritating at higher frequencies. This is a plain vanilla session with an ambient background, courtesy Mind Workstation. I will most likely work as well on AudioStrobe decoders, in case you don't have a Kasina.

Enjoy!

Robert

Hi Robert,

Do you talk about "SS Gamma with ambience" ?
Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quantum

Well, after writing my previous message, I have found a way to produce a pure 40hz tone with the Kasina ( or any other flat tone frequency with no binaural or isochronic beat, for that matter) with the Kasina Session Editor, by creating a 40 hz binaural beat, and then modifying the right frequency in each segment back to 40Hz to match the left pitch, either in the Editor or Grid tab. Anyway I prefer the 80Hz tone carrying a 40 Hz isochronic tone I have put in my Gamma-40 session.

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Would you be willing to upload a kbs with pure 40hz synced exactly with 40hz light for 60 min? I want to get as close to exact as possible to the 40hz light and sound study done on mice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neuro-Surfer

We may need to curb our enthusiasm a bit :-/

Seems like evoking gamma-modulations in humans EEG is less accessible:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10591899

but maybe someone can test this with the gamma session provided in this thread? i know scott did some eeg readings with other sessions and it was evident that there was a frequency-specific response in some bands.

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On the other hand, this study
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s002210100682
Found that humans did respond to flickering lights up to at least 100 Hz. Here's a quote from that article, "We performed an experiment, where ten human subjects were presented flickering light at frequencies from 1 to 100 Hz in 1-Hz steps. The event-related potentials exhibited steady-state oscillations at all frequencies up to at least 90 Hz. Interestingly, the steady-state potentials exhibited clear resonance phenomena around 10, 20, 40 and 80 Hz."

Maybe it has something to do with the way that the flickering light was generated in the experiments? I would like to read the full article that found that gamma-range visual simulation didn't work in humans to compare it with the MIT experiment, but I don't want to pay the exorbitant price that the publisher charges. In any case, the researchers who did the original Alzheimer's study at MIT later found that 40 Hz audio signals also work on Alzheimer's mice, so there is hope even if 40 Hz flickering light doesn't work on humans.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...92867419301631

TV and computer screens flash at 60 Hz.

CFL lights can flash from 60-120hz, usually 120hz though. LED lighting, as in screw in bulbs and such, flash at 500hz now I believe. I wonder if there's a limit somewhere where a flicker of certain hz stops generating a response.

I'm gonna have to try to find it now, there was some study just this I think where they found effects from 40hz light combined with sound in humans.

I think we can all agree we feel something beyond placebo after using 40hz?