1 Attachment(s)
AVS Technology Guide - V2
I deleted the V1 post (which deleted the actual thread) because I corrected the typos that were pointed out (Thank you!!!) and wanted to post the corrected copy.
Nothing else has changed yet.
BTW, feel free to print, post a copy on your website or hand out to students. All I ask is that you credit the author. :D
If you have something that you want to see added to the guide, please feel free to submit your piece - and if I think it fits, then, you will be credited for your submission in the guide. If your submitted piece doesn't fit in this guide, it may still be of value to the forum library as either part of another document or on its own as an article.
Please email submissions to marisa@mindplacesupport.com . If the document is large, please put it in a zip file. I work with Word, so if you are using another writing program, I may not be able to open it but that's something we can work out later.
Cheers,
M.:cheers:
Re: AVS Technology Guide - V2
Marisa,
Thank you for the time and effort you have put into this.
I was pleased to see an answer to one question I've been pondering - the equivalency of pure and mixed colored light. Unfortunately the citation link is a dead end. Page 7:
?To the eye-brain system, there is no difference in physiological & psychological response to yellow light and a mixing of red/green light. The brain has no means of distinguishing between the two physical situations.?2
2 Source: http;//www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssci/phys/class/light/ut2l2b.html
On page 9 you compare monaural beats to drumbeats. A monaural beat is the result of two tones in one ear. A drumbeat compares more correctly to an isochronic beat. The monaural term is correctly used on page 10:
"?Dual BBs will often (but not always) produce monoaural beats as well, since two tones are present in both ears. One exception is to keep the frequency relationships set to harmonics, for example, 200 & 400 Hz left and 206 & 412 Hz right."
I would also make the observation that Robert is possibly a minority in the view (p10) that the pitch is relatively insignificant, as a lot of the proprietary BWE courses place high importance on pitch. There is a lot of discussion on this matter (see Transparent forums) and this is the first time I have ever seen such a definitive statement. My own experiments suggest Robert is correct - I have been able to change the pitch of effective sessions so that they sound 'nicer' and the effectiveness has been subjectively unchanged.
The comments on precise frequencies on page 3 are excellent. I find myself wanting to scream from the rooftops, "THERE ARE NO UNIVERSAL MAGICAL ENTRAINMENT FREQUENCIES!!!"
You've done a really good job of providing a balanced overview of a field where so little is known with certainty, and so many people have an opinion (or vested interest).
Cheers,
Craig
Re: AVS Technology Guide - V2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CraigT
My own experiments suggest Robert is correct - I have been able to change the pitch of effective sessions so that they sound 'nicer' and the effectiveness has been subjectively unchanged.
I think the pitch may be unimportant but setting it to be not discordant with other sounds is, at least at an aesthetic level which does also effect ones ability to relax. One of my favorite uses of the Proteus is to run it in manual mode along with ambient music. No fancy entrainment ramps, just running the machine at a certain frequency. Without initially setting the pitch of the beat tone by quickly 'blipping' the Proteus controls, I find the dischordancy between the tone and the general key signature of the music irritating and completely counter-productive if I am out to relax :)
I concur with Craig..great job with the Technology Guide , Marisa. This kind of level-headed overview information was really needed.
Re: AVS Technology Guide - V2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CraigT
Marisa,
Thank you for the time and effort you have put into this.
I say the same to you. :)
Quote:
I was pleased to see an answer to one question I've been pondering - the equivalency of pure and mixed colored light. Unfortunately the citation link is a dead end. Page 7:
?To the eye-brain system, there is no difference in physiological & psychological response to yellow light and a mixing of red/green light. The brain has no means of distinguishing between the two physical situations.?2
2 Source: http;//www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssci/phys/class/light/ut2l2b.html
Hmmmm try this link:
http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssc...ht/u12l2b.html
Quote:
On page 9 you compare monaural beats to drumbeats. A monaural beat is the result of two tones in one ear. A drumbeat compares more correctly to an isochronic beat. The monaural term is correctly used on page 10:
You bring up an interesting point.
I think that a drum beat fits with both monaural and isochronic definitions. It fits with the monaural in that a drum beat produces a single (mono) note or beat. It also fits with isochronic is that usually a drum beat is an evenly spaced beat - but it doesn't have to be (it depends on who is doing the drumming). A Metronome would be more of an isochronic beat as it definitely produces an evenly spaced beat.
I'm not sure that I agree with your definition: "a monaural beat is the result of two tones in one ear". I spent some time on the net seeing what I could find and I couldn't find anything significant either way.:BangHead: I was trying to find something in a medical, acoustic or scientific journal or article. I did find one defination what said monaural is "sound reception by one ear." Hmmm are we both wrong?
"?Dual BBs will often (but not always) produce monoaural beats as well, since two tones are present in both ears. One exception is to keep the frequency relationships set to harmonics, for example, 200 & 400 Hz left and 206 & 412 Hz right."
Quote:
I would also make the observation that Robert is possibly a minority in the view (p10) that the pitch is relatively insignificant, as a lot of the proprietary BWE courses place high importance on pitch. There is a lot of discussion on this matter (see Transparent forums) and this is the first time I have ever seen such a definitive statement. My own experiments suggest Robert is correct - I have been able to change the pitch of effective sessions so that they sound 'nicer' and the effectiveness has been subjectively unchanged.
I think that Robert was saying that pitch isn't important in entrainment mostly because the frequencies that affect EEG are what do the BWE and they are below what we can hear.
I guess it doesn't matter how much your observations are in the minority ... if you are right. ;)
Quote:
The comments on precise frequencies on page 3 are excellent. I find myself wanting to scream from the rooftops, "THERE ARE NO UNIVERSAL MAGICAL ENTRAINMENT FREQUENCIES!!!"
BWE/AVS has seemed to have attracted its fair share of pseudo-science. Bah!
Quote:
You've done a really good job of providing a balanced overview of a field where so little is known with certainty, and so many people have an opinion (or vested interest).
Thanks! My knowledge on the subject is limited. I find it's difficult enough to try to stay on top of how this stuff actually works best with the brain and I try my hardest to leave some of the more technical aspects of the science to those like yourself and Andy.
It has been extremely difficult for me to find good and understandable information on the subject. There is a lot of information that is simply wrong, exaggerated or backed by questionable research.
Robert is a very good source of information as he's been involved in the field for over twenty years. Not to mention, he's worked with, shared ideas and knowledge with some of the leading experts in the field such as T. Budzynski. He's a pretty humble guy who likes to be in the background, accumulating information and building cool stuff. He reminds me of the wizard on the mountain that you have to hike for days to find and even then he's a bit elusive but when you do find him and ask questions - you are richly rewarded by the depth of knowledge that comes with the answers. LOL Robert the Wizard.
Thanks for your comments!
M.
Re: AVS Technology Guide - V2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
synaesthesia
I think the pitch may be unimportant but setting it to be not discordant with other sounds is, at least at an aesthetic level which does also effect ones ability to relax. One of my favorite uses of the Proteus is to run it in manual mode along with ambient music. No fancy entrainment ramps, just running the machine at a certain frequency. Without initially setting the pitch of the beat tone by quickly 'blipping' the Proteus controls, I find the dischordancy between the tone and the general key signature of the music irritating and completely counter-productive if I am out to relax :)
I concur with Craig..great job with the Technology Guide , Marisa. This kind of level-headed overview information was really needed.
Thanks! It's not meant to be more than a starting place for those interested in the subject. :)
M.
Re: AVS Technology Guide - V2
Marisa,
Thank you for the alternate link. I wonder if a primer level physics website is really giving this matter proper consideration? What is said on this site is true for most practical purposes, however I'm yet unconvinced of the equivalency of mixed and pure color. Siever makes some interesting points in his article, http://www.mindalive.com/2_0/ch7.pdf, P7, Visual Bandwidth Factor. Siever made quite a deal of the benefits of the (broad spectrum) incandescent lamps in his early units - did these virtues vaporise when he decided to use LEDs in the later models? This is all a big fat, "Don't know" from me, but I think it deserves more consideration.
The key word in discussion of things entrainment is "beat". A beat frequency is, by definition (see the operation of a heterodyne AM radio), the product of two frequencies. What is being distinguished is where the two frequencies interact - outside the head (monaural) or inside the head (binaural).
Problems, I think, arise from confusing 'monaural beat' with 'mono' or 'monaural', the single channel counterpart of 'stereo'. Unless the terms are amply defined, the drum analogy can be correctly argued either way, so I guess it's not that useful in making the point.
My intent is not to nitpick, and I'm not wishing to hold myself as the authority, but, terminology does matter. Spend a bit of time on the Transparent forum where this sort of thing gets a lot of discussion, and you'll see how much time is being wasted as people first work out if they're discussing the same thing. From Tina Huang's (Transparent Corp) blog regarding her recent AVE study (mindupdate.com/?p=97):
"... In fact, in our comprehensive search, we found articles that have never before been mentioned by those in the brainwave entrainment development and scientific community. Why? Believe it or not, the problem is in the inconsistency in terminology used to describe BWE..."
I'm happy to take turns being right or wrong :) A discussion works best when there's two sides to it. Hopefully what will emerge is the best approximation of fact/truth we can extract.
I'm envious of your access to Robert, but I trust that you will continue to treat us to the snippets of wisdom that issue forth :)
Cheers,
Craig
Re: AVS Technology Guide - V2
Hi Craig,
Sorry it took so long for me to get back to you. It's one of those busy weeks! :eek:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CraigT
Marisa,
Thank you for the alternate link. I wonder if a primer level physics website is really giving this matter proper consideration? What is said on this site is true for most practical purposes, however I'm yet unconvinced of the equivalency of mixed and pure color.
I think the source is adequate for the point that was made in the article. For more detailed explanations on color and vision, I agree, other sources would be more relevant. I think the basic physiology of vision and perception of color is going to be fairly simple where as the psychology of color perception may be more complex. Just my thought ... not a fact. Though I may look further into this and see if an alternate source backs up what this source has told us. :eusa_think:
I found this on the web that has some interesting points about color and vision: http://www.fi.edu/color/
It says that the color blue inhibits appetite and green is most restful and easy on the eyes.
The article also said the following: "Some people have trouble discerning colors, along with their shades and luminance. Color blindness is a color perception problem whose most common ailment is a red-green deficiency. This means that there is a lack of red or green photopigments and people have difficulty making out colors that are based on the `red to green' ratio." I think this may be relevant to some people who are not getting the color effects that others do.
Quote:
Siever makes some interesting points in his article,
http://www.mindalive.com/2_0/ch7.pdf, P7, Visual Bandwidth Factor. Siever made quite a deal of the benefits of the (broad spectrum) incandescent lamps in his early units - did these virtues vaporise when he decided to use LEDs in the later models? This is all a big fat, "Don't know" from me, but I think it deserves more consideration.
I think a lot of his science is designed to support his products. I don't really trust him as a source for information. Of course, I may be making a totally unfair judgment on the man. I would say that if his research is backed or reproduced by other independent studies then I'll accept it. Like I said, I may have an unfair bias against him. My bad.:icon_pirat:
Quote:
The key word in discussion of things entrainment is "beat". A beat frequency is, by definition (see the operation of a heterodyne AM radio), the product of two frequencies. What is being distinguished is where the two frequencies interact - outside the head (monaural) or inside the head (binaural).
Okay, I'll buy that. :)
Quote:
Problems, I think, arise from confusing 'monaural beat' with 'mono' or 'monaural', the single channel counterpart of 'stereo'. Unless the terms are amply defined, the drum analogy can be correctly argued either way, so I guess it's not that useful in making the point.
I think it matters on a more advanced level perhaps. In a basic level guide, one wants to keep things as simple as possible and in doing so, some concessions have to be made.
Quote:
My intent is not to nitpick, and I'm not wishing to hold myself as the authority, but, terminology does matter. Spend a bit of time on the Transparent forum where this sort of thing gets a lot of discussion, and you'll see how much time is being wasted as people first work out if they're discussing the same thing. From Tina Huang's (Transparent Corp) blog regarding her recent AVE study (mindupdate.com/?p=97):
It matters to a point. That there are still discussions on meaning of the terms tells me that there isn't an exact definition for many of these terms - at least one that everyone is happy with. There are some portions of definitions that seem to be agreed on but many details that are still argued.
I guess it depends on what information someone finds important and to what purpose. To many, it's not important how their stereo is made - they just want to enjoy the music. To an audiophile, this is not acceptable and they want to know, in great detail, all about the acoustics etc. There are so many things in life like this.
Quote:
"... In fact, in our comprehensive search, we found articles that have never before been mentioned by those in the brain wave entrainment development and scientific community. Why? Believe it or not, the problem is in the inconsistency in terminology used to describe BWE..."
The question is: Why is there so much inconsistency in the terminology?
Quote:
I'm happy to take turns being right or wrong :) A discussion works best when there's two sides to it. Hopefully what will emerge is the best approximation of fact/truth we can extract.
Sometimes truth is something that is very simple and for some odd reason, we seek to make it much more complex than it needs to be. It reminds me of Occam's Razor: "One should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything". :)
Quote:
I'm envious of your access to Robert, but I trust that you will continue to treat us to the snippets of wisdom that issue forth :)
I wish that he had more time or I could find a way to download that brain of his. In the meantime, I'm more than happy to share what I learn but in many ways, you know much more than I do about a lot of this. I study the brain and behavior but you have studied the science of AVS in much more detail that I have. I certainly appreciate the points you have brought up and it has inspired me to look into some of these aspects in more detail than I normally would.
Also, thank you so much for all you have and continue to contribute to this forum. Your input has been most beneficial to so many of us. :cheers:
M.
Re: AVS Technology Guide - V2
Marisa,
You are absolutely right - you have pitched your Guide absolutely perfectly. I am notorious for overcomplicating things - possibly the only person I know who includes disclaimers in ordinary conversation.
It's good that you raise color-blindness - that's an angle on the matter I hadn't considered.
I will confess that I have had my suspicions that there's a bit of selective research and reporting going on out there. It can bite one on the backside, however, if anyone pays attention and holds you to your last words.
By way of confession/apology, I have been 'gifted' with Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (not the same thing as OCD), characteristics of which are obsession with minutae and 'ownership of truth'. So I am, in fact, a pathological know-it-all. I do try to keep a bit of a lid on it, and to ensure that I have a vague idea of what I'm talking about, but you may well have noticed the trend :)
You are very generous, and I truly enjoy being part of this community.
Craig
Re: AVS Technology Guide - V2
Hello, from Canada,
Just wanted to let you know that your input, & Marisa's, is being sought after, & read by someone who really appreciates it !
Thanks for sharing with those of us who are interested in learning from those who obviously know a lot more than they do !
Keep it coming... :icon_pray: :cheers:
Re: AVS Technology Guide - V2
Thanks Ben Willow. :eusa_dance: What a nice thing to say.
M.
Re: AVS Technology Guide - V2
Hi Craig,
Quote:
I am notorious for overcomplicating things - possibly the only person I know who includes disclaimers in ordinary conversation.
LOL That can sometimes be a useful trait you know.
Quote:
It's good that you raise color-blindness - that's an angle on the matter I hadn't considered.
Had you never started this conversation, I wouldn't have been looking around for more info and wouldn't have found that.
Quote:
I will confess that I have had my suspicions that there's a bit of selective research and reporting going on out there. It can bite one on the backside, however, if anyone pays attention and holds you to your last words.
There is also misquoted research out there which makes things even more difficult.:BangHead:
Quote:
By way of confession/apology, I have been 'gifted' with Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (not the same thing as OCD), characteristics of which are obsession with minutae and 'ownership of truth'. So I am, in fact, a pathological know-it-all. I do try to keep a bit of a lid on it, and to ensure that I have a vague idea of what I'm talking about, but you may well have noticed the trend :)
Being a stickler for details and perfection can be a useful trait particularly in some occupations. I'm too much of a "it'll do" kind of person and I have to make an effort to pay attention to details. In NLP terms, I'm more of a Global, General type personality. You are more "Specific" Detail oriented. Between the two of us, I think we cover all the basis. lol
So with OCPD, do you have to do a lot of work around anxiety control? Has AVS helped? If so, what type of programs do you use?
Quote:
You are very generous, and I truly enjoy being part of this community.
Ditto. :headbang:
M.
Re: AVS Technology Guide - V2
After most of a lifetime of assorted misery (age 4?) , I was first diagnosed with depression, and then bipolar II, six or seven years ago. I wasn't a very good patient and meds, doctors and I didn't get on very well.
Early last year I got the Procyon, etc. and initially focussed on beta/SMR for depression. It wasn't too long before I found that beta made me irritable and anxious, so I concluded that I was no longer depressed, and started spending more time in alpha which almost always settled me down really well. Sometimes when I'd wake up in the early hours in a state of panic, a quick blast of a Night Journey would get me back to sleep before the session even ended.
Mostly, however, I've used alpha and theta to allow me to achieve the state of quiet contemplation where I have been able to review all the aspects of my life and internal processes without getting worked up or disappearing into those horrible loops of negativity. What became evident was that there are reasons why my life was as it was, and that depression and anxiety were a correct and valid response. This led to the diagnosis of OCPD which is only as much of a problem as you allow it to be - now that I know what's going on with me, what the basic cognitive distortions are, I can work around it pretty effectively, dealing with depression or anxiety simply as symptoms if they arise.
Without going into too much gory detail, I am the only child of an overprotective mother, and apparently OCPD is the defensive personality structure that male children in such circumstances often develop. OCPD is an Axis 2 Cluster C disorder (anxious and fearful). Apparently girls under similar childhood circumstances are more likely to develop an Axis 2 Cluster B personality (dramatic, emotional or erratic).
For anyone wondering why they're not getting better being treated for an Axis 1 disorder (mood disorders) I strongly recommend considering the personality disorders. They don't respond well to medication, but, if the vicitm is truly willing, they respond really well to cognitive techniques, either in therapy or self-applied.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder
I still take low dose Prozac. I have no idea whether I need it, but it doesn't bother me, and my family seems to feel more secure while I'm on some sort of medication. I also have a pretty strong history of sundry addiction, with alcohol being my poison of choice. Largely for the peace of mind of my family, but also to provide a bit of a buffer for myself, I take Antabuse, which means that any alcohol would probably put me in hospital - a strong disincentive to drink. Alpha and theta sessions both do a great job of putting impulsive or compulsive thoughts out of mind.
The secondary benefits of BWE, a surprisingly expansive hobby, contact with interesting people through the forums, and being allowed to tell the family, "Leave me alone, I'm doing a session!" have been pretty good too (the family have been very supportive of all my efforts to 'get better' and for that I am truly grateful).
I can say in all honesty that were it not for the Procyon (and Neuroprogrammer) I would still be misdiagnosed and miserable. Mostly things are pretty good now, and I can laugh about my 'quirks'.
Sorry for the novel, but you did ask :)
Cheers,
Craig
Re: AVS Technology Guide - V2
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CraigT
After most of a lifetime of assorted misery (age 4?) , I was first diagnosed with depression, and then bipolar II, six or seven years ago. I wasn't a very good patient and meds, doctors and I didn't get on very well.
I've got Fibromylgia and I suffered for a long time before I finally got correctly diagnoised. I can totally related to your journey and what it takes to turn things around so that your illness is something you have to deal with, it's not who you are.
Quote:
Early last year I got the Procyon, etc. and initially focused on beta/SMR for depression. It wasn't too long before I found that beta made me irritable and anxious, so I concluded that I was no longer depressed, and started spending more time in alpha which almost always settled me down really well.
The best thing for depression would be Alpha/SMR. Depression is a funny thing because it often is a symptom of another problem. Anxiety, as you discovered can also go with depression and Beta would exacerbate the state.
Quote:
Sometimes when I'd wake up in the early hours in a state of panic, a quick blast of a Night Journey would get me back to sleep before the session even ended.
Good thinking on your part! That is exactly what you needed to do.
Quote:
Mostly, however, I've used alpha and theta to allow me to achieve the state of quiet contemplation where I have been able to review all the aspects of my life and internal processes without getting worked up or disappearing into those horrible loops of negativity. What became evident was that there are reasons why my life was as it was, and that depression and anxiety were a correct and valid response. This led to the diagnosis of OCPD which is only as much of a problem as you allow it to be - now that I know what's going on with me, what the basic cognitive distortions are, I can work around it pretty effectively, dealing with depression or anxiety simply as symptoms if they arise.
I don't know if you realize how big of a mountain you climbed. You are absolutely right and you are an exceptional person to have figured that out and to have taken control of it. One of the features of OCPD is the need to control so here's an example of how you made it work for you instead of against you. :hello2:
Quote:
Without going into too much gory detail, I am the only child of an overprotective mother, and apparently OCPD is the defensive personality structure that male children in such circumstances often develop. OCPD is an Axis 2 Cluster C disorder (anxious and fearful). Apparently girls under similar childhood circumstances are more likely to develop an Axis 2 Cluster B personality (dramatic, emotional or erratic).
In your opinion, how do you think your mother being over protective caused you to go toward OCPD? There are a few different paths you could have taken, I'm curious as to how you ended up on this one? I only know the basics of OCPD.
Quote:
For anyone wondering why they're not getting better being treated for an Axis 1 disorder (mood disorders) I strongly recommend considering the personality disorders. They don't respond well to medication, but, if the victim is truly willing, they respond really well to cognitive techniques, either in therapy or self-applied.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder
Good advice!
Quote:
I still take low dose Prozac. I have no idea whether I need it, but it doesn't bother me, and my family seems to feel more secure while I'm on some sort of medication. I also have a pretty strong history of sundry addiction, with alcohol being my poison of choice. Largely for the peace of mind of my family, but also to provide a bit of a buffer for myself, I take Antabuse, which means that any alcohol would probably put me in hospital - a strong disincentive to drink. Alpha and theta sessions both do a great job of putting impulsive or compulsive thoughts out of mind.
You likely do have a deficiency in Alpha waves and low serotonin which is why the low dose of SSRIs help and the Alpha sessions. Craving alcohol is an indication of low serotonin and Alpha waves.
Quote:
The secondary benefits of BWE, a surprisingly expansive hobby, contact with interesting people through the forums, and being allowed to tell the family, "Leave me alone, I'm doing a session!" have been pretty good too (the family have been very supportive of all my efforts to 'get better' and for that I am truly grateful).
This is the first forum that I've been actively involved in and I have found it to be very rewarding. It's also been very motivational as conversations and questions often inspire me to learn more about a subject. It sure is a good way to converse with people who have similar interests.
Quote:
I can say in all honesty that were it not for the Procyon (and Neuroprogrammer) I would still be misdiagnosed and miserable. Mostly things are pretty good now, and I can laugh about my 'quirks'.
It pleases me to no end when I read a story such as yours. I'm especially impressed about how you decided to take control of your situation and learn how to manage it. It's a very difficult thing for people to do and it takes awesome strength to persevere and do it. I hope others read this and draw inspiration from your journey.
Quote:
Sorry for the novel, but you did ask :)
It was worth it!
M.
Re: AVS Technology Guide - V2
I sympathize... with those who suffer...
Twenty years ago, after searching for over 15 years to find out what was the matter with me,
and always being told that everything was OK,
I stumbled on the term "sleep apnea" at the local library...
I asked to be checked in a sleep lab & they confirmed my suspicions!
I was diagnosed with Central Sleep Apnea, with Cheyne-Stoke Respiration...
which has as side effects Fibromyalgia & Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
Believe it or not, I felt so relieved to finally find an explanation as to why
"Achy, Groggy & Sleepy" were my 3 close & constant companions for decades !
17 years ago, a reputable specialist in my area, told me that my condition was "chronic, permanent & irreversible" ! and placed me on disability !
I replied instantly that although I respected his professional opinion,
there was no advantage for me to believe that my situation was as such ! Where would I go from there :dontknow: ?
He looked stunned. I refused to take the proposed drug-experiments to see what, if anything would help my "symptoms",
and told him that I preferred to believe that I would find another way out,
by continuing to do what was making my situation at least bearable {meditation, Yoga, T'aiChi, & Focusing (Refers to Eugene Gendlin's use of the term)}.
I continued to search for more ways to add to my "self-care-diet", which I now call my ever evolving Body-Mind-Spirit Routine :icon_pray:
I lingered between life & death for many years, throughout the 1990's... and I find myself better, now, at age 59, than I was at 40 !
When I purchased the Procyon in April 2008, 9 months ago, I was at my wits' end, desperate for some relief.
I was at the brunt end of another long bout of not having had a single restful night in about 9 months... with many nights on the edge of tears, from discomfort !
BTW, did I mention that I also have Restless Legs Syndrome ? Hey, why not? I believe it all fits together in some way... between my two ears are brain-waves, so they say :icon_wink:
The AVS-BWE technology has helped me - no doubt in my mind - the very first time I used it. 15 minutes of Night Voyage : Session No.23... (Placebo?)
Since then, short of having access to an EEG, I've been studying & experimenting like a mad & blind alchemist in a new found lab :icon_wink: ,
programming sessions on the Procyon and on NP2, and doing my best to separate the chaff from the wheat, diamonds from rocks... :confused:
(marketing... you know what I mean... So, I do appreciate the honesty that I find on the Forum...:eusa_clap: )
During the same period, I have also invested in Biofeedback technology (emWave (PSR & PC) & Healing Rhythms), all of which are undoubtedly helping me... I use them every day.
I am now gazing in the far-far distance :eek: , when one day, money permitting, I might be able to get a Mind-Mirror from Anna Wise,
and hopefully gain a bit more sight & insight (through neurofeedback's objectivity & guidance).
There, in a nut shell:
I sleep much better, I breathe better, have more energy, have almost no more aches & pains, my eye sight has improved, & my "mind" works better as well... as my 3 companions fade in the distance.
It is also helping my wife & my 80 years old dad :).
And, most importantly, I haven't lost my sense of humor in exchange, as an unwanted side-effect of all this time consuming new activity :banana: !
Don't get me wrong now, I'm not making medical claims here... G-d forbid, just sharing another anecdotal experience.
Thank you all.
Re: AVS Technology Guide - V2
Ben, Marisa
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences with your physical health.
[Steps onto soapbox]
For the last couple of years I hung around a mood disorders website, and as fabulous as it was, it heavily reinforced my illness and the belief that the mentally ill are especially misunderstood and mistreated in the medical health field. We're sufficiently geographically spread for us to believe this is a global thing - no one government or philosophy is uniquely to blame.
What does this suggest? That we cannot be helped from without, that it up to us to find our own way, and then use the resources at our disposal, rather than throwing ourselves to the mercy of the 'benevolent mother government'.
[Steps from soapbox]
Here's to wellbeing, whatever that means to you,
Craig
Re: AVS Technology Guide - V2
Hi BW,
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ben Willow
I sympathize... with those who suffer...
Ah but interesting life changes come from suffering. Gee ... that kind of sucks. lol I guess some times a regular thunk in the head isn't enough.:eusa_think:
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Twenty years ago, after searching for over 15 years to find out what was the matter with me,
and always being told that everything was OK,
I stumbled on the term "sleep apnea" at the local library...
I asked to be checked in a sleep lab & they confirmed my suspicions!
I was diagnosed with Central Sleep Apnea, with Cheyne-Stoke Respiration...
which has as side effects Fibromyalgia & Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
Believe it or not, I felt so relieved to finally find an explanation as to why
"Achy, Groggy & Sleepy" were my 3 close & constant companions for decades !
It does feel good to know because then you have some place to go with it.
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17 years ago, a reputable specialist in my area, told me that my condition was "chronic, permanent & irreversible" ! and placed me on disability !
That can be a double-edged sword. It's good to get disability if you need it but the "disabled world" can be a trap that is difficult to escape. I had a friend that was "disabled" who made friends with other disabled people and they were a bitter group and they even called people who weren't like them - "norms". In their case, their identities were too tied into their illness or disability. I don't see that as a mentally healthy place to be.
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I replied instantly that although I respected his professional opinion,
there was no advantage for me to believe that my situation was as such ! Where would I go from there ?
He looked stunned. I refused to take the proposed drug-experiments to see what, if anything would help my "symptoms",
and told him that I preferred to believe that I would find another way out,
by continuing to do what was making my situation at least bearable {meditation, Yoga, T'aiChi, & Focusing (Refers to Eugene Gendlin's use of the term)}.
I continued to search for more ways to add to my "self-care-diet", which I now call my ever evolving Body-Mind-Spirit Routine
I lingered between life & death for many years, throughout the 1990's... and I find myself better, now, at age 59, than I was at 40 !
Wow, tough battle! I do believe this is a watering hole for warriors. :) I'm for both drugs and natural methods of healing. In my case, drugs (SSRIs) helped enormously! Not to mention the thyroid medication - would be lost without it. I also think it's essential to have a good "self-care-diet" as well because drugs can only do part of the job - attitude does the rest.
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When I purchased the Procyon in April 2008, 9 months ago, I was at my wits' end, desperate for some relief.
I was at the brunt end of another long bout of not having had a single restful night in about 9 months... with many nights on the edge of tears, from discomfort !
BTW, did I mention that I also have Restless Legs Syndrome ? Hey, why not? I believe it all fits together in some way... between my two ears are brain-waves, so they say :icon_wink:
The AVS-BWE technology has helped me - no doubt in my mind - the very first time I used it. 15 minutes of Night Voyage : Session No.23... (Placebo?)
No placebo ... just good technology. :eusa_dance:
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Since then, short of having access to an EEG, I've been studying & experimenting like a mad & blind alchemist in a new found lab :icon_wink: ,
programming sessions on the Procyon and on NP2, and doing my best to separate the chaff from the wheat, diamonds from rocks...
(marketing... you know what I mean... So, I do appreciate the honesty that I find on the Forum...:eusa_clap: )
I'm sure glad that you are getting good results with the Procyon. With sleep apnea, don't you stop breathing? I wonder if hypnosis would work to help that? A good hypnotist could perhaps introduce the suggestion to your unconscious that you are to continue breathing while your sleep. If you do decide to see a hypnotherapist, find one that is also certified in NLP (they are usually better at it).
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During the same period, I have also invested in Biofeedback technology (emWave (PSR & PC) & Healing Rhythms), all of which are undoubtedly helping me... I use them every day.
I am now gazing in the far-far distance :eek: , when one day, money permitting, I might be able to get a Mind-Mirror from Anna Wise,
and hopefully gain a bit more sight & insight (through neurofeedback's objectivity & guidance).
Have you read her book, "High Performance Mind"?
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There, in a nut shell:
I sleep much better, I breathe better, have more energy, have almost no more aches & pains, my eye sight has improved, & my "mind" works better as well... as my 3 companions fade in the distance.
It is also helping my wife & my 80 years old dad :).
And, most importantly, I haven't lost my sense of humor in exchange, as an unwanted side-effect of all this time consuming new activity
!
Wow, maybe you don't need hypnosis. You go guy!:hello2:
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Don't get me wrong now, I'm not making medical claims here... G-d forbid, just sharing another anecdotal experience.
The FDA can't do anything about a customer making medical claims about his experiences. :cool:
M.
Re: AVS Technology Guide - V2
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[Steps onto soapbox]
For the last couple of years I hung around a mood disorders website, and as fabulous as it was, it heavily reinforced my illness and the belief that the mentally ill are especially misunderstood and mistreated in the medical health field. We're sufficiently geographically spread for us to believe this is a global thing - no one government or philosophy is uniquely to blame.
What does this suggest? That we cannot be helped from without, that it up to us to find our own way, and then use the resources at our disposal, rather than throwing ourselves to the mercy of the 'benevolent mother government'.
[Steps from soapbox]
Mental illness is just coming out of the closet and it will be a while before main-stream society has figured out how to deal with those who are afflicted. We're getting there ... slowly.
It's not an easy thing for people, let alone friends and family to deal with. Especially if the mental illness is something that distorts reality or causes emotional outbursts or violence.
A good majority of offenders in prison (especially violent offenders) suffer from a mental illness. Society is still mostly interested in revenge, not rehabilitation. I do believe that is slowly changing as well ... especially now that brain science is becoming more popular. The information that brain damage isn't always apparent but it can be behind all kinds of antisocial and criminal behavior. I guess that's my soap box.
M.
Re: AVS Technology Guide - V2
Wow, great input from everyone. We all have a few beast/demons to combat imop and it's great to see people actually doing this successfully!
Marisa, back you your AVS technology guide-V2, I think that it's very easy to read and follows the KISS principles.
I found it interesting to hear that while blue coloured light is good for relaxation, it is not so good for sleep, since it inhibits melatonin. Why then does the Procyon sleep programs (23-27) use a lot of blue light, esp. at the end? What, in your opinion, would be the best colour(s) to promote melatonin, or are you just better to rely on sounds (beats and background) only? Thanks.
Best cheers,
TomC
Re: AVS Technology Guide - V2
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Originally Posted by
TomC
Wow, great input from everyone. We all have a few beast/demons to combat imop and it's great to see people actually doing this successfully!
The nice thing about the forum is that perhaps others can draw inspiration from others examples.
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Marisa, back you your AVS technology guide-V2, I think that it's very easy to read and follows the KISS principles.
Thanks, that's exactly what I was trying for. :banana:
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I found it interesting to hear that while blue coloured light is good for relaxation, it is not so good for sleep, since it inhibits melatonin. Why then does the Procyon sleep programs (23-27) use a lot of blue light, esp. at the end? What, in your opinion, would be the best colour(s) to promote melatonin, or are you just better to rely on sounds (beats and background) only? Thanks.
You bring up a good point. One that I also wondered about. I didn't write the programs but if I was to wager a guess, I would say that if the blue lights are combined with another color then the effect would not be the same as if it were pure blue lights. Blue & red make purple etc.
My other guess is that the rest programs are meant to provide someone with deep relaxation but not put them to sleep.
The best color to produce serotonin (which becomes melatonin once it gets dark) is green.
I will email Robert and ask him about those programs and get back to you.
Good question and thanks for bringing it up.
M.
Re: AVS Technology Guide - V2
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During the same period, I have also invested in Biofeedback technology (emWave (PSR & PC) & Healing Rhythms), all of which are undoubtedly helping me... I use them every day.
I am now gazing in the far-far distance , when one day, money permitting, I might be able to get a Mind-Mirror from Anna Wise,
and hopefully gain a bit more sight & insight (through neurofeedback's objectivity & guidance).
Re
Have you read her book, "High Performance Mind"? (MB)
REPLY: Yes, thanks... I already have her two books & 4 CDs... good stuff ! I'm presently enjoying them... Thanks... so much stuff to go through in this new field... years of fun ahead of me... long-life permitting :eusa_dance: !
