Kasina - What settings will provide more fractals/mandalas type shapes?

What settings will provide more fractals/mandalas type shapes?

I've viewed SpectraStrobe, AudioStrobe, and Color Organ, but none of these different settings seem to provide the same types of geometric images that I could view on the Procyon.

If I'm not able to change the settings for more geometric shapes, do you have another set up Ganzframes that I could purchase that would provide more fractals/mandalas for the Kasina?

The Procyon is very adept at creating these types of patterns. I suspect that the crispness of the square waveform and the ability to adjust its duty cycle has a lot to do with these patterns. With audio type signals in the Kasina, square waveforms are generally smoothed at their edges to prevent little clicks and pops in the audio.

I have spent a great deal of time in the last few months studying color creation, but for the sake of all, let's study together how to create some of these pattern effects.

Would you be willing to experiment with me? Let's start by identifying a Procyon session that creates the patterns that you like. Then using Kasina settings we'll try to reproduce it.

Some of the AudioStrobe titles that we sell produce great geometry too. I'll revisit those and query with the creator (if they are available... many times it was Robert) what some of the settings to produce the audio were.

Generally what I do know is that square waveforms that move from around 10hz to 18hz and climb up and down quickly tend to produce strong patterns. I have some custom MWS waveforms that produce nice patterns too.

However, as I said, a focused study to maximize these effects on Kasina would be of benefit.

I doubt that the Ganzframes make a difference though LEDs do have characteristic rise and fall times. I have all of our different types and can experiment to see if it matters.

Scott

My 2 favorites from Procyon are "Meditative Mind 15" and "Kaleidoscopic Mind".

It would be fantastic if all the tracks were recreated for the Kasina and available with the same types of images as the Procyon.

I look forward to testing out the above mentioned versions you create on Kasina!

Thank you in advance. Love your great customer service!

Ok, each one of those sessions has a reasonable number of segments to work with. I notice on Meditative Mind 15 that duty cycle is really only used in the middle and end segments with a square wave. There are a lot of triangular waves in this session.

Almost all of the segments are in that target alpha range I mentioned (actually starting lower at 9hz then going to 12-13hz)

There also is the presence of a trick that Robert likes a lot, which is offset one color, in the case Red, by a small amount, like 0.1hz. So, like in segment 11, Red would start at 13hz and go to 9.1hz, while Green starts at 13hz and goes to 9hz. The pulses start to get slightly out of sync as the segment progresses. This might be one hint.

It also may be so that the contrast between switching waveforms has a big effect too. Like you get used to a certain flow and then when you switch to another substantially different one, then the brain creates patterns from it.

It is a worthy study.

Is it possible that future updates to Kasina will enable it to be backwards compatible with Procyon? As in we could transfer our files from Procyon to Kasina and get the exact same experience?

Or if not transfer the files, provide a simple software converter for audio files that would enable this feature to produce fractals/mandalas?

Also, is there currently a way to slow down images in Kasina?

You mentioned you had some custom MWS waveforms that produce nice patterns too. Are you able to post any of your MWS files to the board that we could check out?

Thank you again!

Try this mp3 of the Meditative Mind 15 session as SpectraStrobe converted in Mind Workstation.
I'll post it without comment right now and you can tell me what you think about it.

Wow Scott! Thanks for your quick reply. Talk about amazing customer service!

Just tried out your Meditative Mind 15 session.

This has now become my favorite session so far on Kasina and I've tried all the ones that came with it along with those on Sound Cloud.

The reason being is that the images weren't overpowering or too fast which was great. My mind didn't have trouble letting go whereas other on sessions my monkey mind just keeps going. Not sure if that makes sense.

That said though, I was only viewing a hint of geometric shapes compared to what I'm able to view on the Procyon.

Is there a way to make these images more crisper/involved?

Here's a remix version with a bit of 'special sauce'. :) It also has a large amount of what I call the 'crawlies'.

The thing is that each machine is very different, hardware wise and with the parameters available. You have to find the 'soul' of each machine and discover how to bring out the best in it. You can never reproduce the output of any other system exactly. Nor should you expect to. If you want the Procyon experience, then use the Procyon for that...

Thanks Scott... great experience! About 6 minutes into it felt like a lucid can of blue paint exploding into outer space. Or being caught in the middle of a fireworks display. But it was also subtle and not over the top which was great. For a moment, it was like watching Avatar in 3D.

I can definitely see the potential for a more vivid experience in the Kasina.

Guess it's a matter of how much time and effort is put into each frame. You're literally painting a moving picture.

Thanks again.

An important distinction with SpectraStrobe is that it is audio. So you have a huge range of tools available to process it. For the last few months I have been doing most of my work with Mind Workstation but it is not always the best tool depending on what you are doing. The first session was pretty much a mirror of the settings in the Procyon session as closely as Mind Workstation could reproduce them.
The second session is a remastered version in an audio editor with the light channels being overdriven by transient processors and very steep filters to remove the harmonics that this process creates. As you can imagine the possibilities are really endless and fertile ground for new techniques.
Something like the Procyon is limited to only the settings that are provided in the editor. There is no other way to process the session.

I have a long history with different electronic musical instruments so it is natural for me to accept that the output of each machine has a unique character. In different synths you can make the exact same settings in a patch but it still sounds slightly different and has character special to the respective instrument. Not better or worse, maybe more suited for a certain use.

Was watching your video "Soliton by Neuroasis - SpectraStrobe" at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe5nMSJIOrY

Your video images expresses exactly how I'd love my Kasina viewing experience to be. However, this isn't at all what I'm seeing even when I move the glasses to the tip of my nose as you suggested. That goes for Soliton and others.

Is there perhaps a setting I need to adjust to get the imagery your video provides? Unfortunately, for the most part, my experience has basically just been flashing lights and I need to focus intently on producing my own images. I've tried turning down the Visuals, but all the does it lowers the intensity of the flickering lights.

Any suggestions you can provide would be great! I see the potential Kasina provides in your video and I'd love to duplicate that experience!!

You are asking about totally different perceptions now. Please see the discussion about Surface vs. Depth Viewing here: http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...hlight=surface If we had figured out a way that everyone could see 3D virtual reality scenes due to the effects of our machines we would be a lot richer than we are now :)

If you don't have a natural ability for deep visualization then it will require some work on your part. The funny thing though is the harder you try, the harder it is. At some point with working with sessions, mainly over and over again, it just happens. I getting the feeling that you play each session only once or at most a small handful of times. To a large extent the 'magic' is not in the session, it is in your state of mind and ability to go into a trance and let subconscious imagery come to the forefront.

The video that you reference is a good tool to work with along with the Kasina. Use it in conjunction with the Soliton session. Watch the video several times and get a feel for the images and movement. The suggestion of having the Solition session running with the glasses on the tip of your nose, superimposes the flickering lights over the video while you are watching. At moments you can close your eyes and try to recreate (or recall) the images, as vividly as you can. Then do this with the session alone.

I can't say for sure you would see those exact images, probably not in fact, but it doesn't matter. Let the images come to you, dim impressions will eventually become hyper focused and immersive.

It is a deep discussion with many facets and beyond the current scope. I do want to continue though with the exploration of 'objective' visions, ie surface visions. What you are asking about are 'subjective' visions or depth visions.

The impressions of fractals and mandalas and such, I believe at a surface level, most anyone can see. They in fact reveal an underlying structure of the way our brain processes and interprets flashing lights.

To further this discussion I have created some test files that showcase some of the methods I know and the resulting images. They are in a blog post here: http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...ces-Test-Files

Scott

Hi Scott, I may be just a bit spoiled since was used to the Procyon providing crisp images without a lot of focus. In time, perhaps I'll get used to the Kasina as well.
I will definitely try your suggestions with your youtube video and Surface vs. Depth Viewing.

Regarding 3D virtual reality, would MP4's possibly offer this type of ability versus MP3's? I know nothing about programming and I'm sure you guys have discussed this in depth already with your team.

I'll comment on the test files you've created within the link you've provided.

Again, thanks for such great support!

I would tend to guess either one of 2 things. One is, you like very bright lights. The Kasina has more LEDs but we put deliberate focus (or at least my sessions did) in creating color mixes. This requires that the overall red mixture be reduced, which can appear to be less bright. However, much is gained in general by learning to experience and appreciate subtle colors.

The other guess is that you process music at a higher level of awareness and prefer simple binaural beats or pulsing tones. The monkey mind stuff you said leads me to this.

Of course, it would have made no sense whatsoever for us to release yet another beeping machine as we have that well covered and the sheer amount of apps that do this now is overwhelming.

Everyone regardless will tend to get the best results from gaining knowledge of what works for them and creating their own sessions that highlight these areas. (or being very systematic and specific on what parts of sessions you like and those that you don't so we can optimize the content) Have you tried out the KBS sessions and different ColorSets?

As mentioned structurally the Procyon and Kasina are quite similar. Some of the special parameters of Procyon sessions, Duty Cycle and DC Offset are more pronounced in those sessions.

If you find vast differences in the Procyon sessions for you, then study why. Be very specific at what time of what session has an effect that you like. Then we can deconstruct why. From what work I have done with Meditative Mind I think it closely approximates the Procyon session and to a certain extent in some areas surpasses it, after the post processing that is.

Man, I'm reading what you are writing and the possibilities of Kasina seem incredible. It's so exciting but at the same time it seems impossible for someone who is new to this kind of session programming to understand a single thing of what you are saying. I can feel the potential but understanding how to create the things you can do with the device seem very difficult. Where can I start?

On the first post I have just sent to this forum, I have asked a way to create light shows to go with my favorite soundtrack which is Avatar (funny Jasond mentioned the same movie in this thread). When I listen to this particular soundtrack it triggers high emotions in me because of the Movie. I would like to intensify those emotions with a light show. I do not know if this would be possible having no experience whatsoever with Audio strobe/Spectra Strobe which I don't even know the difference between those two terms yet.

What can you suggest me to do to if I want to get started in learning the art of creating nice visuals synchronized with music?

Thank you

Michael

Hi Michael,
Welcome to the forum! We are all friends here :)

If you have a smart phone (who doesn't?) especially an Apple device then probably the easiest way to get started creating new experiences synchronized to your own music is with the iOS and Android test apps I have just released. With the realtime control on the sliders you are easily able to create fractal and mandala type patterns. And with the realtime color control for AudioStrobe on the Kasina, you can have a lot of power at your fingertips.

I went ahead and released these apps based on your question as I had so much fun that I didn't want to sit on them anymore.

Hope this helps,
Scott

The most blind blowing visuals i have seen with the kasina so far is the audiostrobe track audio illusions and i think the colour set is 11 or 13 ran fr, i would have to check though.

I had audio illusions cd back in the late 90s when I had the mindlab dls and i loved it then even with the basic red lite frames, This version of the visuals on the kasina blows it away.


Funny thing is that I was disappointed with the procyon and ended up selling it after not too long and I think the kasina is much better.

Hello. I've used the above links to download the 2 "Meditative Mind 15" files mentioned. They come through OK but when I try to play them on the Kasina I get "Unsupported File Format". They won't open for any other player either, so I'm guessing there's some fundamental problem. I'd really like to give them a try, so can you suggest anything I can do differently? I just got my Kasina and it's the first such device I've owned, BTW, so I'm in evaluation & experimentation mode. I'm likewise curious to know if any new tracks are being created and, if so, whether they'll be made available.

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Originally Posted by tsharack

Hello. I've used the above links to download the 2 "Meditative Mind 15" files mentioned. They come through OK but when I try to play them on the Kasina I get "Unsupported File Format". They won't open for any other player either, so I'm guessing there's some fundamental problem. I'd really like to give them a try, so can you suggest anything I can do differently?

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I think you had a bad download. The files seem to be fine. Try downloading them again.