Kasina External LED light design.

Hi everyone. I am very new to this technology, only got my Kasina last week and I am loving it!
I was wondering how difficult would it be to design an external LED light for Kasina. I know there is a product called MELS system at Mind Place shop.
I know that that light was designed for Procyon but can be used with Kasina. Kasina has new feature to control lights on the left and right side of Ganzframes independently!
So I thought how would one to approach the creation of a custom designed (possibly a pair of them!) lights which one could place at some distance from the experiencer, who could be using the lights with eyes closed or open by using a simple frames made out of two halves of pin pong ball (https://mindhacks.com/2008/11/17/gan...hallucinations). The LED technology is making huge leaps every year so I thought maybe those two lights could be made with a cluster of, say, 5 or 6 RGBW LEDS (http://www.cree.com/LED-Components-a...onal/XLamp-MCE)
So basically one would plug your Kasina light output into the input of external lights driver unit and would be able to enjoy the experience not being tied to wearing any glasses.
I had the opportunity to use one of those Lucia no3 and Pandora Star lights. They cost crazy money! :confused4: for what they are! But what I must say about them is that the experience of very powerful external light is very pleasing and satisfying as if one would be somewhere outside busking in the real sunlight or some other starlight. :rolleyes: One could have a very powerful experience by not being "tangled" to the frames and headphones! (using isochronic tones mixed with music coming out of their Hi-Fi system)

Well any technical advice and comments would be welcomed. What interests me is how the signal from Kasina light output could be amplified and routed to two LED units. Basically think Deep Vision Frames enlarged to the size of 2 left/right hi power LED units placed at most comfortable distances from the experiencer. The units could have adjustable light intensity or possibly be able to get adjusted from Kasina itself plus cooling fans (https://www.quietpc.com/casefans) as very powerful LEDs generate a lot of heat.

This thread may be what you're looking for, if you're handy with electronics! You'd need 2 of them and some mods if you want to read all 6 channels of the Kasina. 1 channel is opposite polarity from the other.

Hi Andy!

Thank you for the link to the thread but I saw it. The "electroguy" did quite a nice job but it was for the Procyon and the .zip file contains only PCB schematics. I am not very handy with electronics only starting out. Besides as I mentioned in my initial post the technology is making huge leaps every year so I am sure there are other more efficient ways to approach the problems of heat and power wastage, the ones that "electroguy" was trying to tackle in 2010. So yeah, the mods could be made but I think maybe a completely new design for Kasina would be a great opportunity to revive old unfinished business started by other members.

I would really appreciate if you could clarify what you meant 6 channels (do you mean RGB pair?) 1 channel is opposite polarity from the other (left opposite polarity to the right?) I am sorry for my lame understanding and questions but I have a friend in Ukraine who is a great electrical engineer. I think he can make this project a reality but I would need to explain to him very clearly what the light output on Kasina does, basically technical info on the light output.

I hope my explanation is not too crude and you would understand what I mean. I would really appreciate your or anyone else's help on this matter. To be honest, I really believe we could have a very nice addition to the Kasina's DV tech plus I would post the progress of the whole process. If anyone interested, please let me know your thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Seva

Hi Andy!

Thank you for the link to the thread but I saw it. The "electroguy" did quite a nice job but it was for the Procyon and the .zip file contains only PCB schematics. I am not very handy with electronics only starting out.

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It contains the pcb layout, schematic and materials list. It's not a project for beginners or anyone who's not done electronics building before. You might be better off looking at the MP Environmental Lighting system if you need something that's already been made.

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I would really appreciate if you could clarify what you meant 6 channels (do you mean RGB pair?) 1 channel is opposite polarity from the other (left opposite polarity to the right?) I am sorry for my lame understanding and questions but I have a friend in Ukraine who is a great electrical engineer. I think he can make this project a reality but I would need to explain to him very clearly what the light output on Kasina does, basically technical info on the light output.

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Basically there are 3 connections and 1 common on the TRRS connector. One connection for each color (R/G/B) and the left and right are in opposite polarity. Using a 4.5v battery or power supply it's easy enough to test. If, on the Ganzframes, you send a positive voltage to any of the channels, one side will light up, if you send a negative voltage, the other side will light up.

The connections are:
Tip - Red
Ring closest to Tip - Green
Ring closest to Sleeve - Blue
Sleeve - Common

+ (positive) polarity to T,R1 or R2 will light up the LEDs on the RIGHT side of the Ganzframes (looking at the Ganzframes as you would be wearing them)
- (negative) polarity to T,R1 or R2 will light up the LEDs on the LEFT side of the Ganzframes.

So, your circuit merely needs to extract the voltages from the Kasina's Ganzframe output based on the above information. The left/right signal is multiplexed and switched at a high frequency.

Again, if you are looking to build this, do employ the help of an electronics person. They will be able to easily figure out all the voltages and connections from the Kasina, and using electronguy's example and explanations it would be easy for him/her to understand.
Please don't try this by yourself! Play it safe and buy something pre-made.

Good luck with you project - please post pictures if you end up making something!

Thank you Andy!

This kind of reply is the one I was looking for! Now I understand how the Ganzframe output works. Thank you for the advice, I shall be playing it safe and definitely shall be using my friends expertise!

I'll keep everyone updated on the status and post some pics along the way. Thank you once again. :icon_thumright:

Oh, one more thing!

I was wondering if Kasina light output can be programmed to emit multi track/channel info? What I mean is if you create music and you have tracks with many different musical parts programmed with individual colours. Crudely said, for instance, drums give out blue, lead green, pads white, bass red and so on… If not maybe future Kasina's firmware and software could address and implement colour multitrack programming. And regarding to external light, as well as, I presume, new frames both of them should have individually programmable RGB lights for each track/channel? Or if the composition would be mixed to a stereo or surround mix their would be a decoder to make relative colour sense of all that mixed down light session?

Let me know what you think about it.

Thanks again.

Hi guys.

As you know I have been trying to design an amazing LED light for Kasina so that a group of people could enjoy the experience together without going into closed personal world of frames and headphones.

I have been researching different ways to approach this project and not only try and recreate Ganzframe experience but maybe improve on it, make it more fun. And than it hit me what if it would be possible to marry Kasina, Mindplace technology of Spectrastrobe and DMX LED lighting. More than that, this merge of the tech could, I believe, give rise to new kind of mind machine, the one that would have several channels of light entrainment. What I mean by that is that new upgraded version could have multiple channels of usual Kasina 6 channels Spectrastrobe output. Channel 1 (one Kasina output), channel 2 (additional Kasina output) and so on. Maybe if this idea is too complex than present Kasina output would be complemented with 2 additional channels. One for separate, white only, strobe/flood light and another one for the R and G laser channel. With this tech the sessions could be enriched with additional harmonic entrainment of the leading frequency of the session. The program editor would have to be updated to be able to give the opportunity for users to create programs with complex harmonic content in the sound spectrum as well as light frequency and colour combination. Imaging the possibilities! Have a look at the light in the link, make sure to watch the short promo video(http://www.cameolight.com/en/product...er-and-strobe/) The new editor would create a session (6 channel Kasina+white strobe channel+laser channel) which would be loaded it into DMX controller software (checkout this one: http://www.lightjams.com/#descriptionSection) and in its turn would act like decoder for the session file from Kasina to DMX format for off the shelf lights that are very affordable (a pair of lights that are presented in one of the links would cost you 240?/328$ ) LED lights. The DMX controller/decoder could be implemented using 3rd party software or a simplified dedicated Kasina to DMX software for the mind machine would be written. DMX protocol allows LEDs to be daisy-chained for even more of a 360? experience.Lights could be projected on domelike screen for eyes open no frames experience. And content could be expanded enormously! Imagine the possibilities! :)

A simple set of Ganzfeld goggles would be employed or simple closed eyes technic with lights shining towards the group of people.

So, what do you think about it. Would love to hear your thoughts on this matter. Have anyone of you thought of it before?

Best regards,

Seva.

Hi guys, just came across this site.

They offer various DMX interfaces. I read in one of older threads by Andy, that 0-10 VDC to DMX converter could be the solution to drive DMX LEDs with Procyon. Maybe these guys' product could be used to just do that for Kasina. http://northlightdmx.com/dmx512encoder.htm

Please guys, would love to hear some feedback from from the tech team. Anyone?

I would really appreciate any sort of feedback.

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Originally Posted by Seva

Oh, one more thing!

I was wondering if Kasina light output can be programmed to emit multi track/channel info? What I mean is if you create music and you have tracks with many different musical parts programmed with individual colours. Crudely said, for instance, drums give out blue, lead green, pads white, bass red and so on… If not maybe future Kasina's firmware and software could address and implement colour multitrack programming. And regarding to external light, as well as, I presume, new frames both of them should have individually programmable RGB lights for each track/channel? Or if the composition would be mixed to a stereo or surround mix their would be a decoder to make relative colour sense of all that mixed down light session?

Let me know what you think about it.

Thanks again.

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Hi Seva;

I think the simplest way to do this would be to use MWS (which is a multitrack editor) and add the tracks there. Create the SS signals for each track as you'd like.
Kasina Ganzframes and the DeepVision Ganzframes both have 6 channels. Left: Red/Green/Blue and Right: Red/Green/Blue.

If you haven't tried MWS yet, please visit Transparent Corp and have a look.
You can buy the product from TC or Ayrmetes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seva

Hi guys, just came across this site.

They offer various DMX interfaces. I read in one of older threads by Andy, that 0-10 VDC to DMX converter could be the solution to drive DMX LEDs with Procyon. Maybe these guys' product could be used to just do that for Kasina. http://northlightdmx.com/dmx512encoder.htm

Please guys, would love to hear some feedback from from the tech team. Anyone?

I would really appreciate any sort of feedback.

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Since DMX is a digital signal already, taking the analog output of the Kasina and converting it back is an unnecessary step. You could do what you are looking to achieve with a DAW (not sure if MWS can use plug-ins, check with them), Enttec's DMXIS plug-in and some DMX hardware. http://www.enttec.com/index.php?main...ow=description

Hi Andy,

Thank you for suggested links. Unfortunately, I have found out that DMX protocol does not handle very fast changes well. :icon_confused:

Here is a quote from DMXiS site:

"...Unfortunately, the DMX protocol simply doesn’t handle fast changes well. If you want to strobe quickly, use the “strobe” macro feature that is built into most DMX lights. While they may not strobe perfectly in sync, they will at least strobe at a consistent rate..."

So as you can see DMX is not really good enough for AVS as it can not handle precise frequency driving.

But what I think is possible is to get one of DMX LEDs and design the Kasina driver board and install it on the light with the possibility of switching between 2 modes (Kasina and DMX). It would save time and cost on designing the LEDs layout as well as light enclosure with power supply in place already.

Maybe a custom Kasina bridge board could be designed to connect to existing driver board. I do not know but this could be very interesting.

Besides, judging by your advice on using MWS as well as having Kasina Basic Editor, they are the best platforms to create sessions and it would be kind of too complex of an approach to create a workflow with DAW in conjunction with lights. Besides I like the idea of having Kasina (very small and portable) as main device to play sessions from, even if one should take two external lights to their friends home to introduce them to the experience.

I shall employ the help of my friend and let you know how it will all go.

Best regards,

Seva.

I was wondering if its possible to wire the output of Kasina to LEDs and create a home version of Lucia/ Pandorastar? and if there is any benefit compared to goggles ?

MindPlace used to have an external light bank, which I assumed could be controlled by their devices. Looks like it is not available anymore.

Advantages would be comfort of not having to wear light frames, especially for sleep. You would also be able to entrain groups of people, something that hypnotists would favor. I remember a device that allowed you to split off another light frame so you could zone out with a friend :love4: It would be useful for entraining while working. I've used light frames that offset the LED's around the eyes so you can look through them while working, but they were too distracting for me, and dried by eyes out.

The MELs system was likely too expensive to produce for the few sales it generated.

As linked in Post #2, one could fairly easily create their own, and as a tinkerer myself, I encourage and support all forms of DIY!