Healing States

Hey guys,
'
Just got my Proteus a couple days ago and so far it is just awesome. The thing that convinced me to buy a L&S machine was my experimentation with some programs that were available for trial on the internet. While I know that it is illegal to claim some benefits, I have been using a track on Mind Stereo in the sub-delta range for Fibromialga and cervical stenosis.

Great little program, but I want it portable on my Proteus. Is it possible to produce sub-delta waves on the Proteus? What wave-lengths or programs would you recommend for pain reduction. I have been using deep delta on the proteus and getting more sleep than I have had in months! Suggestions?

Robin

Hi Robin,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by robino5454

Hey guys,
'
Just got my Proteus a couple days ago and so far it is just awesome. The thing that convinced me to buy a L&S machine was my experimentation with some programs that were available for trial on the internet. While I know that it is illegal to claim some benefits, I have been using a track on Mind Stereo in the sub-delta range for Fibromialga and cervical stenosis.

Great little program, but I want it portable on my Proteus. Is it possible to produce sub-delta waves on the Proteus? What wave-lengths or programs would you recommend for pain reduction. I have been using deep delta on the proteus and getting more sleep than I have had in months! Suggestions?

Robin

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If "sub-delta" means below a delta range, then no, our machines will not produce this and here is why: Low Delta is what an EEG will read when someone is in a coma. Below Delta would be less than .5 Hz, in which case it would indicate the person is brain dead. So, if sub-delta means below the Delta frequency range, and if someone says that they have put it in a program and that it will help you then someone is selling placebo. Any frequencies below Delta will not be perceived by the brain.

Having said that, the Delta range can be very helpful for someone with Fibromylgia for a few reasons. People with FM tend to have problems going into a stage 4 sleep (delta) because alpha/beta waves tend to interrupt the cycle. Delta sleep is where the body regenerates itself. It is also the state where the body releases natural opiates and growth hormone. So, a program with Delta is good for one to take at night.

If you use a Delta program during the day, you will feel too groggy. It's best to use it at night.

If you feel groggy during the day, then the sleep replacement program I've attached to this message will be helpful.

In addition, people with FM tend to have problems concentrating and benefit from the same protocols as people with ADD - which means Beta/SMR training. The other attached Beta program is good to use with just your headphones while you are working at your desk or reading. It will help increase your concentration. The Alpha/Beta program is also good for this.

I've also followed the vitamin/supplement regime listed in the book, "The Better Brain Book" by David Perlmutter, M.D. and found it quite helpful. If you would like a list of supplements, let me know.

I've had FM all of my life and I find that these programs and suggestions have helped me greatly.

Please let me know how the programs work for you - if you decide to give them a try.

M.

Sub-delta seems to be a term used by when talking about the low end of the delta range (0.2-1Hz). Transparent Corp seems to be particularly fond of it, but I have found it used in a number of medical papers.

"Using sub-delta to sooth these structures has resulted in amazing success helping conditions such as fibromyalgia, chronic pain and hypertension (high blood pressure). In some studies sub-delta frequencies have also been linked with pituitary stimulation of HGH release." Quote from Neuroprogrammer manual.

My wife has had excellent success with the subdelta sessions in dealing with her fibromyalgia.

These frequencies are well within the range of the Proteus.

Cheers,
Craig

Thanks for clearing that up Craig. :cheers:

M.

Thank you so much! I have downloaded your suggested sessions and will let you know how they work. Awesome support here for this product and very helpful people.

Robin

What progs do you recommend on the Proteus for this Craig? I would be most grateful.

To experiment with these frequencies on the Proteus I would suggest using manual control with the USr mode. You can go down to 0.1 and control the frequencies in tenths, ie. O.2, 0.3, 0.4 etc...

If you hold down the bottom button then press the top button at the same time you can move the frequencies downward. It is kind of hard to do this though as if you continue to hold the bottom button it starts counting up again.

However, delta frequencies if they are to be effective at all, which I would recommend synchronizing your breathing with them say between 0.3 to 0.1hz (20 breaths per minute to 6 breaths per minute).

Also keep in mind that by pushing the middle button while playing back you switch the Proteus between synchronized and alternating mode. The little dots on the display show you which mode is active.

When in alternating the effective frequency is essentially half. Thus at 1hz you would be stimulating at 0.5hz. The alternating effect can be quite relaxing (or can produce vertigo for some people)

The AudioStrobe session on the Kasina - Sleep Cycle and also here: http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...leep-Induction has sub delta frequencies in it.

Hope this helps, Moonchild...
Scotto

Thanks very much Scott, sounds a bit complicated for my technophobic brain to master ha ha
I think I will probably stick to the Kasina as it's easier. :icon_wink:

That's one of the problems of describing things. It is far easier when you do it.

Switch to USr mode on the Proteus. Press play. You now can control the frequency you want with the bottom button.

The middle button switches between the lights flashing together or the lights alternating from eye to eye.

That's pretty much it. You can set the stimulation to the exact frequency you want.

The reason I emphasize this is that it is probably the best feature now on the Proteus for most users compared to our other products. The ThoughtStream connection is cool too for some users.

Still not sure I understand.
I have it in front of me and yes pressed middle button to USr and do you mean you do not set a prog with top button? Or am I mean to select a prog with top button then press USR?
Then when I press the bottom button it starts at 1.19 then i.20, 1.21

what do they stand for? I can see the difference in the flashing button that tells me if its either eye stimulated but still do not understand how I know what hz I am using .
I have tried to lower it by pressing the top and bottom buttons at the same time but not responding.

USr mode is a completely manual mode. There are no programs for it. While in this mode when you press play then lights flicker at the frequency you see on the display and you can adjust them manually. That is what the bottom button does. It increases the frequency. The display is showing the frequency of the flashing lights (and sound). The numbers on the screen are the frequency. Pretty cool, huh?

Pushing the bottom button makes the frequency go higher. Holding the bottom button and pressing the top button makes the frequency go lower. It is best the hold the bottom button as mentioned while you press the top one (holding it too). You should see the frequency on the display getting lower.

Let me know if it works for you.

ah right. I have managed to get it down to 0.5 so I take it that's sub delta that would be good for pain relief etc?
but do I just plug in to that and wait for entrainment or should I start higher and slow down but that would interrupt the whole thing.

Am I advised to maybe find some relaxing music to listen to through the Proteus and wait till my brainwaves respond?

I can see that its only my lack of understanding that stands in the way of making full use of my machines. :icon_redface: As I have said many times, I have cognitive impairment from fibro which often makes simple things complicated. Well that's my excuse and I am sticking to it! :icon_wink:

BTW on the Kasina, I has mentioned I wanted longer sessions and you said that I could make a play list from sessions from the same category...so, say i want to get more stage 4 sleep to generate growth hormone etc as it's that level of rest I am missing with my sleep apnoea. :help:
Should I just play the sessions from Trance back to back?
Will that inhibit 'habituation' from occurring?

Basically what I want to do is try to compensate for the lack of deep rest that is causing or exacerbating the symptoms of my fibro/ chronic fatigue.

Interestingly, I was reading a book last night by a UK specialist in pain and fibro who said that ordinary healthy people can manifest the symptoms of fibro simply by having their sleep disturbed routinely so that the body is never having a chance to secrete the essential hormones etc.
You probably knew all that already but some people may be interested. :)

Ideally you would want to start higher and go down. However, the interface doesn't make this workable at all. I mean it does but you can't 'step down' like you can 'step up'. Down travels a long way and gets faster the longer you hold it. By just pressing the up button you can 'step' by 0.1hz which is workable. Try it out with down and you will see what I mean. In closed eyes with down you don't really know what is going on.

So probably the best thing is to play another short relaxation session in the Pxx mode like Good Night for instance which takes you down to Delta frequencies over 18 minutes. Then (if you are still awake :) ) switch to the USr mode (you will want to set the frequency that you want to go to beforehand like say 0.2hz) then play that frequency for awhile.

You are not likely to entrain brainwaves to delta frequencies exactly. It is more of a soothing wash, especially if you synchronize breathing.

Yes the Kasina can play a whole folder back to back.

Have you tried the Sleep Cycle program I mentioned? It has many of the elements that you want already. I am curious on how you respond to it.

No, I have not tried the sleep session yet. I tried to read the info and my brain seized up lol That's what happens with overload. :icon_redface: I will have to go back stage by stage and read up again how to put those sessions into my Kasina but at the moment too exhausted to manage anything other than very simple stuff. :confused1:
I look forward to trying it out when I am more refreshed. many thanks for answering all my questions :icon_thumright:

Sleep Cycle is already on the Kasina in the AudioStrobe folder. Don't worry about descriptions. Just try out the session.

Be well,
Scott

:eusa_doh:oops! silly me
Thanks again. Will give it a go tonight and report back. :cheers:

Ok tried the Sleep Cycle this afternoon to try to give it my full attention.
I loved it and feel it will be very valuable to me. The intro was fascinating and enjoyed toggling the colours about. My only thoughts were which to stay with as each had its own appeal. Loved the whispering which added another dimension and found I was in altered state very quickly. I thought I stayed with the sub delta till the end but probably went in and out. I am sure that at the end of a day I would have drifted off very early.
I'm Going to try to experience all the progs and write my own notes for my own refs as I am sure I have not experienced half of them yet. :cool:

Glad you benefited from the session. I find that the white noise at the end is really a primer to go to sleep because it is such a blank slate.

It would be wonderful to post some session notes. I am quite interested in your impressions and favorites.

Scott

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moonchild

ah right. I have managed to get it down to 0.5 so I take it that's sub delta that would be good for pain relief etc?
but do I just plug in to that and wait for entrainment or should I start higher and slow down but that would interrupt the whole thing.

Am I advised to maybe find some relaxing music to listen to through the Proteus and wait till my brainwaves respond?

I can see that its only my lack of understanding that stands in the way of making full use of my machines. :icon_redface: As I have said many times, I have cognitive impairment from fibro which often makes simple things complicated. Well that's my excuse and I am sticking to it! :icon_wink:

BTW on the Kasina, I has mentioned I wanted longer sessions and you said that I could make a play list from sessions from the same category...so, say i want to get more stage 4 sleep to generate growth hormone etc as it's that level of rest I am missing with my sleep apnoea. :help:
Should I just play the sessions from Trance back to back?
Will that inhibit 'habituation' from occurring?

Basically what I want to do is try to compensate for the lack of deep rest that is causing or exacerbating the symptoms of my fibro/ chronic fatigue.

Interestingly, I was reading a book last night by a UK specialist in pain and fibro who said that ordinary healthy people can manifest the symptoms of fibro simply by having their sleep disturbed routinely so that the body is never having a chance to secrete the essential hormones etc.
You probably knew all that already but some people may be interested. :)

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On another of my light and sound machines in the manual it has sessions for fibromyalgia, Not just the low delta that you mentioned but sessions at 7.83hz as well. So if you haven't tried then maybe uploading a 7.83hz track to your kasina is also worth looking into, If you can't audiostrobe it then you could use it on colourpulse mode. You would have to google that frequency and see what people say about fibro and using 7.83hz aka schumman resonance and if it has helped them. I love 7.83hz as it is really calming but I cannot tell you directly if it is helpful for your condition but it might help you well as the lower delta frequencies.

There's plenty written about Schumann Resonance on the forums, and some sessions are available for download here as well.
Eg http://www.mindplacesupport.com/foru...0248#post10248


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wonderful! Thanks so much MV and Andy :icon_thumright:

I have ordered sleep earphones so will try sleeping to the Schumann resonance which is meant to bring us into the resonance of the planet.
I already work with tuning forks and program my water to certain frequencies so healing by resonance makes perfect sense to me. Looking forward to seeing how it goes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moonchild

I have ordered sleep earphones so will try sleeping to the Schumann resonance which is meant to bring us into the resonance of the planet.
I already work with tuning forks and program my water to certain frequencies so healing by resonance makes perfect sense to me. Looking forward to seeing how it goes.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moonchild

I have ordered sleep earphones so will try sleeping to the Schumann resonance which is meant to bring us into the resonance of the planet.
I already work with tuning forks and program my water to certain frequencies so healing by resonance makes perfect sense to me. Looking forward to seeing how it goes.

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All of these frequencies are meant to be good for chronic fatigue/fibromyalgia 0.5hz 1.5hz 7.83.hz and 10.hz

10.hz is meant to increase atp production and low atp production has been suggested in chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia though of course it may not apply to all with these conditions.

I would suggest if using wifi then to disable it and use ethernet as what I read is that the computer use can affect atp production.

If you want to experiment with using more than 1 or 2 frequencies then it is best to make a recording where you can listen casually and do not have to set time aside to do your meditation like you do with your kasina. What I would do is make a recording to listen on my mp3 player where you have binaural frequencies of 10hz and then after some time going down to 7.83hz and then listen to this casually, it could be ocean waves so you can play it low in your ears while you watch tv and do other things.

That way you do not have to set aside extra time for relaxation then later before you go to sleep then you can use your delta session with either or both the frequencies of 1.5hz and 0.5hz.

This gives you a chance to use lots of different frequencies without being restricted or overwhelmed if you want to use more frequencies. I am not sure how good the effects are when listening with eyes open to frequencies like 10 hz and 7.83hz but if you are relaxed and watching tv or reading a book or not doing anything strenuous then it should be beneficial.