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Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual day?
I've been experimenting with inner conciousness for a long time, sometimes taking very long breaks, sometimes achieving great experiences.
What is interesting to me is the state of bliss, absolute acceptance, absolute wisdom with no doubts whatsoever. With the Procyon delta/theta sessions it is rather easy to reenter that state, thought after the session ends, beta starts kicking in and in a hour or two I can totally forget the state that was and usual life problems/ disturbances start kicking in.
So, my question is - is it possible to keep that state when your eyes are open and you are living the usual daily life?
Are "enlightened ones" those, who succeed in doing it? I think it is possible for anyone to achieve it, but is it possible to keep it flowing?
Did someone here manage to achieve that kind of state and prolong it for the day, during conversations with people, in short, live the usual life with it?
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
Hi,
There's a practice called "Open Focus", presented by Les Fermi in his series of CDs. Although he specialises it into a variety of coaching-type sessions, the principle is one whereby you learn to apply the expanded consciousness anywhere, anytime. It's not new or original, but Fermi does a great job of making it accessible.
I've found it interesting to "switch" in and out of it during normal activities, gaining confidence in just how much I can rely on my non-conscious to deal with mundane "stuff", calling on my consciousness only to deal with interesting stuff. I'm enjoying finding that there's a lot of things that used to bother me that simply don't require me to be bothered.
Cheers,
Craig
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
Thanks for the link Craig, did you use the book or the audio programme to learn the technique? I've downloaded some introducory mp3's off their site, the concept sounds interesting.
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
I had the opportunity to listen to some of Les Fermi's CDs. Basically I had been doing much the same sort of thing of my own accord, and was pleased to find that someone else had found the same techniques effective. Fermi conveys the technique far better than I ever could have.
Cheers,
Craig
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
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Originally Posted by
Planeswalker
I've been experimenting with inner conciousness for a long time, sometimes taking very long breaks, sometimes achieving great experiences.
What is interesting to me is the state of bliss, absolute acceptance, absolute wisdom with no doubts whatsoever. With the Procyon delta/theta sessions it is rather easy to reenter that state, thought after the session ends, beta starts kicking in and in a hour or two I can totally forget the state that was and usual life problems/ disturbances start kicking in.
Nice! :eusa_dance:
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So, my question is - is it possible to keep that state when your eyes are open and you are living the usual daily life?
There are times when this state of mind is not conducive to a life situation. While it's very useful to be able to maintain a calm mind always and in doing so you have better access to wisdom, there are times when having doubts is a good thing and absolute acceptance is not in your best interest.
I think that if one was to always be in a state of bliss they would cease to grow because they would likely lack the motivation to learn something new. The state of bliss is a perception in time and space - much like a photograph. It is a static state ... one that is unmoving. It's a good place to visit but life requires others states of consciousness from us as well.
I wonder what you mean by the term "absolute wisdom". I understand "wisdom" but have trouble with the word "absolute". It could be because I perceive wisdom as something that is continuous in it's flow and the word "absolute" indicates a final state, or a state of inertia. Wisdom would be a process and absolute would be a conclusion.
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Are "enlightened ones" those, who succeed in doing it? I think it is possible for anyone to achieve it, but is it possible to keep it flowing?
I think it depends upon what one considers to be enlightenment. That word means different things to different groups of people. I think that as soon as someone thinks they are enlightened - if they truly are enlightened - they will quickly realize that enlightenment is a plateau they have reached on an ever-shifting landscape. One thinks they reach the top of the mountain only to look up and see they only reached the top of a hill leading to the mountain.
On a different note, going back to that state of mind that you first mentioned, it's would be good for you to remember how you got there and what it is like being there so that you can recreate that state at will. I think it can be a very useful state to have in the toolbox.
M.
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
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There are times when this state of mind is not conducive to a life situation. While it's very useful to be able to maintain a calm mind always and in doing so you have better access to wisdom, there are times when having doubts is a good thing and absolute acceptance is not in your best interest.
I think that if one was to always be in a state of bliss they would cease to grow because they would likely lack the motivation to learn something new.
Indeed, this state of bliss is for example, very bad for survival in fight-or-flight situations, where you need to act first and think later.
But outside those, isn't it a boon to approach any activity with balanced state of mind and ability to make a fair judgement from situation, enjoying each moment of life as it comes to you?
I think this is why people so often consume alcohol or drugs, because of the feelings of bliss and acceptance they receive from those, albeit fake and often learning to harm.
On the other side of the spectrum however, there are eastern gurus that are supposingly constantly living in that state. Do you think that they stopped to grow and learn, or just learned how to truly follow the natural flow of events in life?
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The state of bliss is a perception in time and space - much like a photograph. It is a static state ... one that is unmoving. It's a good place to visit but life requires others states of consciousness from us as well.
Hmm, if I understand you correctly here, you are meaning that state of bliss is similar to a moment of perception of something beautiful and insightful, similar to experience of "satori" gained from successfully understanding a Koan or Haiku...Is that so? This state of mind feels very similar to it, albeit it lasts longer than just a moment of understanding you can get by the methods described, that's why i thought that it may be possible to prolong it even further.
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I wonder what you mean by the term "absolute wisdom". I understand "wisdom" but have trouble with the word "absolute". It could be because I perceive wisdom as something that is continuous in it's flow and the word "absolute" indicates a final state, or a state of inertia. Wisdom would be a process and absolute would be a conclusion.
Here by "absolute wisdom" I mean more an emotion, a feeling that you have just experienced someting so encompassing and complete, you have understanding of all questions of the universe.
In reality of course, this is but a feeling - I think it can be the same for a person who can reach a state of mind where he feels so strong that he can lift a mountain, but if he actually tries it, he will be in for a huge disappointment :icon_wink:.
But even with that said, this feeling is very empowering and inspiring, while it lasts.
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I think it depends upon what one considers to be enlightenment. That word means different things to different groups of people. I think that as soon as someone thinks they are enlightened - if they truly are enlightened - they will quickly realize that enlightenment is a plateau they have reached on an ever-shifting landscape. One thinks they reach the top of the mountain only to look up and see they only reached the top of a hill leading to the mountain.
Yes, I think this process should feel like that too, I hope one day I will be able to tell about it from experience :eusa_think:.
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On a different note, going back to that state of mind that you first mentioned, it's would be good for you to remember how you got there and what it is like being there so that you can recreate that state at will. I think it can be a very useful state to have in the toolbox.
M.
Agreed, in a way i think of AVS usage as of training wheels on a bicycle, it amplifies your ability to change state of mind, but once you experience these states enough, i think it is quite possible to remember and practice to reenter them without stimulation from AVS, especially if to combine them with some of Qi-Gong/ Yoga like practices.
Oh, and sorry for the wall of text :)
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
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Originally Posted by
Planeswalker
Indeed, this state of bliss is for example, very bad for survival in fight-or-flight situations, where you need to act first and think later.
In a state of bliss - I'm thinking that one doesn't really care about outcomes because all is good so it wouldn't work well in most life situations. I'm saying - Bliss is a wonderful state - it just has it's time and place.
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But outside those, isn't it a boon to approach any activity with balanced state of mind and ability to make a fair judgment from situation, enjoying each moment of life as it comes to you?
I would say it is - but that is balance not necessarily bliss.
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I think this is why people so often consume alcohol or drugs, because of the feelings of bliss and acceptance they receive from those, albeit fake and often learning to harm.
Depends - for those prone to addiction it's more to escape pain. For those who use "recreationally" sometimes it's for the "bliss" and sometimes it's for energy or numbing (depends on the drug). Ecstasy would be a "bliss" drug (and is a double-edged sword because of the consequences to the brain after use). Alcohol temporarily raises serotonin levels which produces a good mood and lowers inhibitions. Fights usually occur after the "happy" period because serotonin can drop quite suddenly and that makes a person edgy.
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On the other side of the spectrum however, there are eastern gurus that are supposing constantly living in that state. Do you think that they stopped to grow and learn, or just learned how to truly follow the natural flow of events in life?
I would suspect that they are not always in this state of mind and it is likely a persona they wear in public. Even the Dalai Lama talks about the constant struggle for a balanced state. He has bad days just like everyone else. Things piss him off but the difference between him and the average Joe is that his training allows him to get control over an emotional state before it consumes him and he reframes it into something positive.
The essential goal behind any mental training whether it take the form of spiritual, magickal or psychological is to be able to recognize ones emotional states (good or bad) and to act or not act as by choice instead of reaction.
If bliss was a constant state, your mind would habituate to it and it would cease to feel like bliss.
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Hmm, if I understand you correctly here, you are meaning that state of bliss is similar to a moment of perception of something beautiful and insightful, similar to experience of "satori" gained from successfully understanding a Koan or Haiku...Is that so? This state of mind feels very similar to it, albeit it lasts longer than just a moment of understanding you can get by the methods described, that's why i thought that it may be possible to prolong it even further.
Yes that is what I mean. I think it's possible to prolong it - I just don't think it's possible or even a good idea to remain in this state ... unless you don't have to participate in life. Having said that, I can think of circumstances where maintaining a state of bliss would be useful. For example, If you were stuck in a hospital bed, jail (though you may get beat up unless you could teach the other inmates how to do bliss), being held prisoner somewhere - anywhere where you need to pass long amounts of time.
Oh to prolong it - here's a Richard Bandler NLP trick: Okay, in order for any feeling to continue imagine which way it flows into your body. Imagine this feeling flowing in and out of your body in a circular motion. Which direction is it going in? Check by trying to spin it one way and then the other way (clockwise then counter clockwise). One way the feeling should increase, the other way the feeling should diminish. Once you figure this out, you should be able to keep the feeling going by keeping the motion circulating. It also works good in getting rid of feelings you don't like.
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Here by "absolute wisdom" I mean more an emotion, a feeling that you have just experienced something so encompassing and complete, you have understanding of all questions of the universe.
It's a nice, delusional state of mind. :icon_wink: I recall going to that place quite a few times in the 80s.
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In reality of course, this is but a feeling - I think it can be the same for a person who can reach a state of mind where he feels so strong that he can lift a mountain, but if he actually tries it, he will be in for a huge disappointment :icon_wink:.
But even with that said, this feeling is very empowering and inspiring, while it lasts.
It's even better if you do not put any thought to it and just experience it in the moment. In this state - understanding the universe is a state of being and has nothing to do with wisdom or thought. You can be one with the universe because you are living in the moment, which is another key to this state of mind.
I don't see it as "enlightenment" I see it more as an Altered State of Consciousness (ASC). I can achieve this state at will and I am certainly no guru.
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Yes, I think this process should feel like that too, I hope one day I will be able to tell about it from experience :eusa_think:.
You have already experienced this state - you just didn't recognize it for what it was and it may have been fleeting. Everyone has experienced it and everyone will experience it - some just enjoy it while it lasts and then forget about it until the next time it happens. It's only a spiritual feeling if the person chooses to perceive it that way. Sometimes it is brought on by extreme stress - the brain shuts down and releases endorphins in hopes of self preservation (this is behind many stories of "seeing God").
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Agreed, in a way i think of AVS usage as of training wheels on a bicycle, it amplifies your ability to change state of mind, but once you experience these states enough, i think it is quite possible to remember and practice to reenter them without stimulation from AVS, especially if to combine them with some of Qi-Gong/ Yoga like practices.
I think there are many paths to choose from - all leading to the same destination.
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Oh, and sorry for the wall of text :)
Isn't that what forums are for? :D
M.
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
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In a state of bliss - I'm thinking that one doesn't really care about outcomes because all is good so it wouldn't work well in most life situations. I'm saying - Bliss is a wonderful state - it just has it's time and place.
I would say it is - but that is balance not necessarily bliss.
This is right, after experimenting with it further, i can tell that the condition that is more interesting is when the bliss starts to pass but you still feel very connected to the outside world and your inner world. I think it's more beneficial for the usual life than the feeling of pure enjoyment with no bounds. :).
The technique of Open-Focus mentioned by Craig earlier in this thread intersects with it strongly i think.
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I would suspect that they are not always in this state of mind and it is likely a persona they wear in public. Even the Dalai Lama talks about the constant struggle for a balanced state. He has bad days just like everyone else. Things piss him off but the difference between him and the average Joe is that his training allows him to get control over an emotional state before it consumes him and he reframes it into something positive.
The essential goal behind any mental training whether it take the form of spiritual, magickal or psychological is to be able to recognize ones emotional states (good or bad) and to act or not act as by choice instead of reaction.
Hmm, it is not very reassuring if even people like Dalai Llama have to constantly struggle with negative emotions, =( for some reason i'm quite sure that given enough practice, you can get rid of them alltogether, at least for the periods of solutude, where there are no strongly influencing outside negative factors. Isn't it mind over matter, after all?
I agree about the act by choice decisions, and trying to do so in everyday life too. Only problem is the post-effect, sometimes even if you react propertly, after a while a feeling of negative reflection on the situation occurs, for example if one voluntarily chooses not to participate in discussion which turned into "fight for power" type argument, human nature still punishes you for backing down based on "alpha-beta-gamma" class system, even if the mind understands that there was no logical point or profit to be had from going with the pointless argument and winning it. I think that if I ever manage to reach some higher state of mind for everyday life, it will be much easier to stay out of such conflicts in life and never regret it, because you not only "think" its wise, but truly feel it constantly, which makes all the difference.
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If bliss was a constant state, your mind would habituate to it and it would cease to feel like bliss.
Hmm, you may be right about this, what's interesting to me is this - using drugs weakens the bodily ability to generate endorphins, but what about meditative practices? I am practicing a bit modified taoist "Inner smile" technique for quite a few years to control my mood, and it's effect only grows stronger with time, the feeling is easier to reenter and feels more stable.
While the overall sensation of this practice is weaker than the "connection to the universe" feeling, wouldn't that be the same if you kept reentering and practicing it?
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Yes that is what I mean. I think it's possible to prolong it - I just don't think it's possible or even a good idea to remain in this state ... unless you don't have to participate in life. Having said that, I can think of circumstances where maintaining a state of bliss would be useful. For example, If you were stuck in a hospital bed, jail (though you may get beat up unless you could teach the other inmates how to do bliss), being held prisoner somewhere - anywhere where you need to pass long amounts of time.
Ouch, i think it'd be better to stay out of prison and hospital =).
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Oh to prolong it - here's a Richard Bandler NLP trick: Okay, in order for any feeling to continue imagine which way it flows into your body. Imagine this feeling flowing in and out of your body in a circular motion. Which direction is it going in? Check by trying to spin it one way and then the other way (clockwise then counter clockwise). One way the feeling should increase, the other way the feeling should diminish. Once you figure this out, you should be able to keep the feeling going by keeping the motion circulating. It also works good in getting rid of feelings you don't like.
This sounds like the micro-cosmic orbit technique, but with different focus, it might work if i'll be able to shift focus to other condition, thank you for the suggestion :)
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It's a nice, delusional state of mind. :icon_wink: I recall going to that place quite a few times in the 80s.
It's even better if you do not put any thought to it and just experience it in the moment. In this state - understanding the universe is a state of being and has nothing to do with wisdom or thought. You can be one with the universe because you are living in the moment, which is another key to this state of mind.
I don't see it as "enlightenment" I see it more as an Altered State of Consciousness (ASC). I can achieve this state at will and I am certainly no guru.
Wow, if you practice since 80's then you may as well be one :icon_wink: .
Can you reenter it with same depth without AVS/other stimuli by the way?
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You have already experienced this state - you just didn't recognize it for what it was and it may have been fleeting. Everyone has experienced it and everyone will experience it - some just enjoy it while it lasts and then forget about it until the next time it happens. It's only a spiritual feeling if the person chooses to perceive it that way. Sometimes it is brought on by extreme stress - the brain shuts down and releases endorphins in hopes of self preservation (this is behind many stories of "seeing God").
Uncontrolled random states are common indeed for people, but it's the ability to voluntarily enter them, control them and use them for appropriate situations, that's what's interesting.
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I think there are many paths to choose from - all leading to the same destination.
As usually :).
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
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Originally Posted by
Planeswalker
This is right, after experimenting with it further, i can tell that the condition that is more interesting is when the bliss starts to pass but you still feel very connected to the outside world and your inner world. I think it's more beneficial for the usual life than the feeling of pure enjoyment with no bounds. :).
Cool :cool:
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Hmm, it is not very reassuring if even people like Dalai Llama have to constantly struggle with negative emotions, =( for some reason i'm quite sure that given enough practice, you can get rid of them alltogether, at least for the periods of solutude, where there are no strongly influencing outside negative factors. Isn't it mind over matter, after all?
Hmm I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding here. My point was that as functional humans we all struggle with emotions from time to time. What I mean by that is even when you learn how to control and direct your emotions, there will be times when they will still challenge you. Of course, you will have the knowledge and skills to know what to do with them when they do challenge you and so the effect will be minimized. Mastering a skill does not mean that you will never be challenged in using it.
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I agree about the act by choice decisions, and trying to do so in everyday life too. Only problem is the post-effect, sometimes even if you react propertly, after a while a feeling of negative reflection on the situation occurs, for example if one voluntarily chooses not to participate in discussion which turned into "fight for power" type argument, human nature still punishes you for backing down based on "alpha-beta-gamma" class system, even if the mind understands that there was no logical point or profit to be had from going with the pointless argument and winning it. I think that if I ever manage to reach some higher state of mind for everyday life, it will be much easier to stay out of such conflicts in life and never regret it, because you not only "think" its wise, but truly feel it constantly, which makes all the difference.
While the skills you are practicing do have their advantages and benefits, dealing with conflicts and life circumstances require a slightly different set of skills. The being calm and in a good frame of mind is essential - absolutely! The next skill has to do with being able to shift your perception of an event, especially if it bothers you.
For example: a coworker snaps at you. One perception could lead you to feeling angry and hurt, while another perception could lead you to feeling compassion for the coworker. The first perception is that your coworker attacked you - what a jerk! The second perception is that your coworker must be having a really bad day. In the first case, the perceptual choice was to take the act personally. In the second case, the perceptual choice was not to take it personally. Being able to shift your perception allows you to detach from certain emotional situations and it also allows you to view a situation from another person's point of view (which can be very useful).
Can you see where having additional skills can increase choices in behavioral response?
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Hmm, you may be right about this, what's interesting to me is this - using drugs weakens the bodily ability to generate endorphins, but what about meditative practices?
Sometimes the body does not have enough chemicals of it's own and so supplementation is necessary. For example: Diabetes & Insulin, Under-active thyroid. Serotonin is a brain chemical that is often deficient and antidepressants help by keeping the serotonin you have in your system circulating throughout your system longer.
With endorphins - the drugs that people need to be careful with (and I'm not saying to avoid them just be careful with the use of them) is pain killers.
Serotonin is a brain chemical that also causes one to feel happy and at peace with the world.
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I am practicing a bit modified taoist "Inner smile" technique for quite a few years to control my mood, and it's effect only grows stronger with time, the feeling is easier to reenter and feels more stable.
While the overall sensation of this practice is weaker than the "connection to the universe" feeling, wouldn't that be the same if you kept reentering and practicing it?
You tell me. :icon_wink: After all, you are the expert in your method.
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Ouch, i think it'd be better to stay out of prison and hospital =).
A wise decision. :icon_wink:
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This sounds like the micro-cosmic orbit technique, but with different focus, it might work if i'll be able to shift focus to other condition, thank you for the suggestion :)
I don't know the micro-cosmic orbit technique. The method I speak of is from NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming).
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Wow, if you practice since 80's then you may as well be one :icon_wink: .
Can you reenter it with same depth without AVS/other stimuli by the way?
LOL Not even close to being one. In the 80's, I experimented with many recreational drugs. It was through this I entered that particular ASC where one feels like they understand everything in the universe. While this was an interesting state, I can't see how one could maintain it and stay sane. I'm definitely NOT recommending anyone to try this with drugs - it's way too dangerous these days and permanent brain damage and/or psychosis could result.
The state of mind that I can enter at will (without drugs) is that one of peace and balance. Living in the moment - silent mind - etc. It does produce a sense of joy (maybe bliss) but it's definitely a passive state as opposed to an active state. I can not do this and "think" at the same time. By "Think" I mean answer email or solve problems ... that sort of thing.
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Uncontrolled random states are common indeed for people, but it's the ability to voluntarily enter them, control them and use them for appropriate situations, that's what's interesting.
Absolutely!
Question: Your name on the forum is "Planswalker" - does this name have a special meaning to you?
M.
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
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Hmm I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding here. My point was that as functional humans we all struggle with emotions from time to time. What I mean by that is even when you learn how to control and direct your emotions, there will be times when they will still challenge you. Of course, you will have the knowledge and skills to know what to do with them when they do challenge you and so the effect will be minimized. Mastering a skill does not mean that you will never be challenged in using it.
I agree with the skill reducing the amount of effort nessesary to keep balance part, however i'm wondering if it is possible to ascend above those negative emotions alltogether.
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While the skills you are practicing do have their advantages and benefits, dealing with conflicts and life circumstances require a slightly different set of skills. The being calm and in a good frame of mind is essential - absolutely! The next skill has to do with being able to shift your perception of an event, especially if it bothers you.
For example: a coworker snaps at you. One perception could lead you to feeling angry and hurt, while another perception could lead you to feeling compassion for the coworker. The first perception is that your coworker attacked you - what a jerk! The second perception is that your coworker must be having a really bad day. In the first case, the perceptual choice was to take the act personally. In the second case, the perceptual choice was not to take it personally. Being able to shift your perception allows you to detach from certain emotional situations and it also allows you to view a situation from another person's point of view (which can be very useful).
Can you see where having additional skills can increase choices in behavioral response?
The situation you brought up is an interesting example, quite common in today's life. The options you described for cases are such:
First option - you take it personally and allow the situation to influence you heavily, this way you can lose alot of energy, especially if you snap back.
Second option - you understand that in this situation the coworker is in bad condition and you choose not to take it personally, you resolve the situation.
But you still lose energy this way, literally - usually i feel drained after dealing with such situations, even while keeping on cool and understanding mode of thinking.
Now, those two are the choices people are able make without any special training. I understand that with training calmness it is possible to lower the negative influence of that situation during second reaction.
What about this:
Third option - you are in the state of mind where you feel one with the world, the agression of your co-worker cannot touch you at all because you no longer know what that emotion is. In fact, your high spirits can influence him/her to change his/her own condition instead of snapping at you. I wonder if this one is possible?
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Sometimes the body does not have enough chemicals of it's own and so supplementation is necessary. For example: Diabetes & Insulin, Under-active thyroid. Serotonin is a brain chemical that is often deficient and antidepressants help by keeping the serotonin you have in your system circulating throughout your system longer.
With endorphins - the drugs that people need to be careful with (and I'm not saying to avoid them just be careful with the use of them) is pain killers.
Serotonin is a brain chemical that also causes one to feel happy and at peace with the world.
Interesting information, i'm hearing that more and more people are using andtidepressants, but i still think that the feeling of happiness and peace should have some "roots" in some knowledge, experience or awareness rather just to be induced by chemicals, otherwise one'd have to take them for all life long.
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You tell me. :icon_wink: After all, you are the expert in your method.
Haha, no expertise - i only try to use what helps where it helps :). Why i mentioned is though, is that i think with practice even such strong feeling such as bliss can be prolonged and kept, if a proper method is found of course.
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I don't know the micro-cosmic orbit technique. The method I speak of is from NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming).
Ah, it's a qigong technique where you try to visualise and to feel the flow of energy flowing from main sources and circling around the body. Something like this:
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/1774/chi.gif
I thought of it right after you mentioned imagining the feeling flowing in circular motion around the body. Interesting, those techniques are mostly different only in what you try to visualize :)
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LOL Not even close to being one. In the 80's, I experimented with many recreational drugs. It was through this I entered that particular ASC where one feels like they understand everything in the universe. While this was an interesting state, I can't see how one could maintain it and stay sane.
I'm definitely NOT recommending anyone to try this with drugs - it's way too dangerous these days and permanent brain damage and/or psychosis could result.
Absolutely agree with you on this one, i think that such states reached from using LSD/extasy/psylocibe type drugs are very uncontrolled because they are too unnaturally induced, not much profit can be had from those and the danger of damaging the brain/shifting to heavier drugs is quite high.
I didn't experience the described state of bliss with drugs however, heaviest thing i tried in youth was amphetamine, didn't like the feeling of total loss of control over mind when lasting for quite a long period of time and decided to stop at that. However, i feel that we can move this topic from damaging drugs experience to healing meditative altered state of mind experience ;)
What about with AVS stimuli, did you feel something similar to the "universe unity" with Theta sessions?
After Theta, especially Delta, there can sometimes be felt almost alarming feeling of loss of control, but not when reaching the condition i described, there you feel on the contrary, in total control of everything around and enjoying the state.
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The state of mind that I can enter at will (without drugs) is that one of peace and balance. Living in the moment - silent mind - etc. It does produce a sense of joy (maybe bliss) but it's definitely a passive state as opposed to an active state. I can not do this and "think" at the same time. By "Think" I mean answer email or solve problems ... that sort of thing.
Great state to recharge and recover, right? :)
Aha, almost the same problem i described in topic starter post here, once I start doing activity that requires logic, all meditative state fades away.
But I find it somewhat easier to maintain such states longer after ~23pm, when brain naturally shifts towards lower frequencies of function. Did you try
prolonging such state at night, also entering it with open eyes/ during some activity?
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Question: Your name on the forum is "Planswalker" - does this name have a special meaning to you?
Hmm, i thought it might be a fitting name for the place where people are sharing experiences of expanding state of mind and feeling things outside the usual beta-awareness. Because i share this interest :). Why do you ask though?
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
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Originally Posted by
Planeswalker
I agree with the skill reducing the amount of effort nessesary to keep balance part, however i'm wondering if it is possible to ascend above those negative emotions alltogether.
I think it's possible. Our emotional response has to do with our perception, so if you can shift your perception to one of calm acceptance then everything you experience will go through that filter first and prevent negativity from forming. It has nothing to do with an evolved state of mind, it has everything to do with a trained mind. It does get easier with practice and soon that state of mind becomes the default state.
It starts with self awareness and learning to recognize emotion and what is igniting it. When you know the triggers, you can disarm them.
I know that I'm talking method here and you are talking about achieving a different state of being. You are capable of becoming a person who is always calm and accepting of others - kind of like Cain on Kung Fu (he's a good model of this way of being). That ability comes from mental discipline. This discipline does change how you are on all levels because the more you understand about emotion and perception and the more wise you become with your outlook and actions. Eventually you cross the line where you no longer respond to the same emotional triggers that you use to... in a sense that is an evolution.
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The situation you brought up is an interesting example, quite common in today's life. The options you described for cases are such:
First option - you take it personally and allow the situation to influence you heavily, this way you can lose alot of energy, especially if you snap back.
Second option - you understand that in this situation the coworker is in bad condition and you choose not to take it personally, you resolve the situation.
But you still lose energy this way, literally - usually i feel drained after dealing with such situations, even while keeping on cool and understanding mode of thinking.
Now, those two are the choices people are able make without any special training. I understand that with training calmness it is possible to lower the negative influence of that situation during second reaction.
What about this:
Third option - you are in the state of mind where you feel one with the world, the agression of your co-worker cannot touch you at all because you no longer know what that emotion is. In fact, your high spirits can influence him/her to change his/her own condition instead of snapping at you. I wonder if this one is possible?
The third possibility happens after you are practiced in the second option. In a way, these are like stages of growth.
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Interesting information, i'm hearing that more and more people are using andtidepressants, but i still think that the feeling of happiness and peace should have some "roots" in some knowledge, experience or awareness rather just to be induced by chemicals, otherwise one'd have to take them for all life long.
An antidepressant only cures biochemical depression. If one is depressed because the way they perceive themselves and others then the only cure is for the person to change how they think.
An antidepressant will get your brain back to biochemical balance, if that balance is off, but what you do once you get to that state determines whether that state will remain or not. Kind of like using AVS - which points your brain in the direction you want to go in but how long you stay in that state depends on what you are thinking.
More people are taking antidepressants because we, as a society, have not learned how to cope with stress. There is increased stress and pressure on people and our body chemistry has not adapted yet. Perhaps in several generations from now, our bodies will catch up and produce more serotonin. In the past, there was more emphasis on problem solving and this seems to have eroded in light of people going for the quick fix (which is often drugs, both legal and illegal). In the past, there was more family involvement in a youth's life - aunts, uncles, neighbors and parents.
I've got to run. I'll continue where I left off when I get back.
M.
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
Part two:
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Originally Posted by
Planeswalker
What about with AVS stimuli, did you feel something similar to the "universe unity" with Theta sessions?
Not quite as intense but during a few different AVS sessions I have experienced a feeling of "wow". I'm not into spirituality like I use to be and so my definition of things is slightly different now.
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After Theta, especially Delta, there can sometimes be felt almost alarming feeling of loss of control, but not when reaching the condition i described, there you feel on the contrary, in total control of everything around and enjoying the state.
Interesting. Loss of control over what?
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Great state to recharge and recover, right? :)
Aha, almost the same problem i described in topic starter post here, once I start doing activity that requires logic, all meditative state fades away.
But I find it somewhat easier to maintain such states longer after ~23pm, when brain naturally shifts toward lower frequencies of function. Did you try
prolonging such state at night, also entering it with open eyes/ during some activity?
I actually enjoy being in a good Beta state and feel immense joy when my brain is working well and I'm able to think clearly. I went through a few years of cognitive problems and at times all I could do was stare blankly at things - no thoughts - it was peaceful, it was pleasant and it can be a useful state but it's not one that I want to remain in. I like the edge. People with FM tend to have similar cognitive problems as people with ADD. Too much Theta present when there should be Beta so I guess to answer your question ... I can prolong it when I want but it's not what I want.
I do want Beta to be dominant while I am awake with a strong Alpha in the background. Alpha being what makes one feel happy and okay with the world. I like the calm, balanced feeling coupled with a sharp mind that is able to process information quickly. Sometimes this state brings on feelings of bliss which come and go for prolonged periods ... kind of like waves. I think it comes from being at peace with yourself and the world. I think that perception is the key to this state.
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Hmm, i thought it might be a fitting name for the place where people are sharing experiences of expanding state of mind and feeling things outside the usual beta-awareness. Because i share this interest :). Why do you ask though?
It reminds me of things that are Aboriginal in nature and was curious if there was a connection.
M.
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
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I think it's possible. Our emotional response has to do with our perception, so if you can shift your perception to one of calm acceptance then everything you experience will go through that filter first and prevent negativity from forming. It has nothing to do with an evolved state of mind, it has everything to do with a trained mind. It does get easier with practice and soon that state of mind becomes the default state.
It starts with self awareness and learning to recognize emotion and what is igniting it. When you know the triggers, you can disarm them.
I know that I'm talking method here and you are talking about achieving a different state of being.
Absolutely, I'm trying both methods however, i had some success in handling negative emotions through methodologies of detecting them forming and redirecting them to something constructive, but as I mentioned earlier, that still is rather costly in effort/energy - also when you are suprised with strong burst of negativity, there is not enough time to use the technique of catching negative emotion forming/redirecting it.
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You are capable of becoming a person who is always calm and accepting of others - kind of like Cain on Kung Fu (he's a good model of this way of being). That ability comes from mental discipline. This discipline does change how you are on all levels because the more you understand about emotion and perception and the more wise you become with your outlook and actions. Eventually you cross the line where you no longer respond to the same emotional triggers that you use to... in a sense that is an evolution.
The third possibility happens after you are practiced in the second option. In a way, these are like stages of growth.
I didn't see Kung Fu before, wached an episode from it on Youtube - the hero has an interesting condition of a mind, but he seemed very disconnectied from reality. Not sure if he gets more social later on in the movie, does he adapt to live in society later on?
He reminded me of protagionist of `Yip man` movie, also quite reserved and calm, but more social. And yes, both of those seemed reached during training, albeit rigorous training from early youth. Unfortunately, for a lot real people it takes a long way to self-identify and to choose some path to follow, thus losing the ability to train like that where is the time. Now, have to look for easier ways, perhaps there is 20/80 rule for attaining spiritual balance too, i wonder ;)
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An antidepressant only cures biochemical depression. If one is depressed because the way they perceive themselves and others then the only cure is for the person to change how they think.
An antidepressant will get your brain back to biochemical balance, if that balance is off, but what you do once you get to that state determines whether that state will remain or not. Kind of like using AVS - which points your brain in the direction you want to go in but how long you stay in that state depends on what you are thinking.
Ah, now i understand - you mean when you use antidepressants along with the therapy, such as the methods psychiatrists use?
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More people are taking antidepressants because we, as a society, have not learned how to cope with stress. There is increased stress and pressure on people and our body chemistry has not adapted yet. Perhaps in several generations from now, our bodies will catch up and produce more serotonin. In the past, there was more emphasis on problem solving and this seems to have eroded in light of people going for the quick fix (which is often drugs, both legal and illegal). In the past, there was more family involvement in a youth's life - aunts, uncles, neighbors and parents.
Hmm, do you think people will naturally become happier if society keeps on increasing the speed of life like it is going now? I think the problem is that people lose the time to stop, and reflect for a while, and if tempo of life increases even further, there won't be even time for sleep, no? ;)
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Part two:
Not quite as intense but during a few different AVS sessions I have experienced a feeling of "wow". I'm not into spirituality like I use to be and so my definition of things is slightly different now.
And how do you define spirituality for yourself?
I'm not much into seeking "wow" and disconnection from reality myself, but such conditions are very good for reflection, remembering things from the past, also reliving some experiences, understanding and defining new motives. And relaxation/recreation of course. I believe in pragmatic spirituality ;)
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Interesting. Loss of control over what?
So far i've foudn AVS Delta sessions, when they work, work like that - first
loss of awareness around, then some short period of sleep, then there is this condition where you regain conciousness, but feel
loss of control over body/mind, feeling awake yet unable to move or think propertly. During that condition there is a strong urge to snap out of it, although it's better to resist it and let it pass naturally. Not sure what benefit is there to be had from such Delta conditions so far, think will need to work with them for quite a while to learn controlling them.
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I actually enjoy being in a good Beta state and feel immense joy when my brain is working well and I'm able to think clearly. I went through a few years of cognitive problems and at times all I could do was stare blankly at things - no thoughts - it was peaceful, it was pleasant and it can be a useful state but it's not one that I want to remain in. I like the edge. People with FM tend to have similar cognitive problems as people with ADD. Too much Theta present when there should be Beta so I guess to answer your question ... I can prolong it when I want but it's not what I want.
What is FM? Didn't hear that abbreviation before. I also catch myself zoning out during some activities requiring intense concentration from time to time, just enjoying staring blankly at space until i notice it and resume the task at hand - but i think that happens to all of us, no?
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I do want Beta to be dominant while I am awake with a strong Alpha in the background. Alpha being what makes one feel happy and okay with the world. I like the calm, balanced feeling coupled with a sharp mind that is able to process information quickly. Sometimes this state brings on feelings of bliss which come and go for prolonged periods ... kind of like waves. I think it comes from being at peace with yourself and the world. I think that perception is the key to this state.
Ah, you are describing the perfect condition to be in at work/other daily activities, but what about free time, when you are not challenged with tasks requiring quick thinking on your feet?
I actually find that exploring different states of mind and recognizing them in my free time helps to strenghten staying in beta/ concentration abilities. During the day such exploration would most likely get me unemployed :D
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It reminds me of things that are Aboriginal in nature and was curious if there was a connection.
Interesting, aboriginal such as natives of some place? Sorry, i'm not a native English speaker so i don't understand this completely. :eusa_think:
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
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Originally Posted by
Planeswalker
Absolutely, I'm trying both methods however, i had some success in handling negative emotions through methodologies of detecting them forming and redirecting them to something constructive, but as I mentioned earlier, that still is rather costly in effort/energy - also when you are surprised with strong burst of negativity, there is not enough time to use the technique of catching negative emotion forming/redirecting it.
That method that you are speaking of, in NLP terms, is called "Reframing". It's a powerful tool. It does get easier with practice and so the amount of energy it takes to do this becomes less with practice. Like any skill we learn, at first it takes all of our energy and concentration and over time it becomes a natural (unconscious) ability.
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I didn't see Kung Fu before, watched an episode from it on Youtube - the hero has an interesting condition of a mind, but he seemed very disconnected from reality. Not sure if he gets more social later on in the movie, does he adapt to live in society later on?
His character is more developed in his second series: Kung Fu - The Legend Continues http://www.videosurf.com/videos/Kung...nd%2BContinues
Here, his character is situated in more modern times and circumstances. It gives a good example of the frame of mind to model.
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He reminded me of protagonist of `Yip man` movie, also quite reserved and calm, but more social. And yes, both of those seemed reached during training, albeit rigorous training from early youth. Unfortunately, for a lot real people it takes a long way to self-identify and to choose some path to follow, thus losing the ability to train like that where is the time. Now, have to look for easier ways, perhaps there is 20/80 rule for attaining spiritual balance too, i wonder ;)
Ya, there are a lot of things that get in our way on our journey. Our brains are not fully developed until well into our 20s - in particular, the part of the brain that links consequences to action. So ... something like wisdom isn't going to happen until later in life.
If we are talking in terms of "enlightenment" - one needs a blend of knowledge, understanding and wisdom. True wisdom really does come with life experience. In our youth, we gather knowledge and work toward understanding.
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Ah, now i understand - you mean when you use antidepressants along with the therapy, such as the methods psychiatrists use?
Yes but the psychological aspect doesn't necessarily have to be in the form of therapy as one can learn these techniques from other sources.
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Hmm, do you think people will naturally become happier if society keeps on increasing the speed of life like it is going now? I think the problem is that people lose the time to stop, and reflect for a while, and if tempo of life increases even further, there won't be even time for sleep, no? ;)
I don't know, it all depends on how the youth adapts to a different pace. Teen these days are far busier then we use to be and there are successful stories as well as tragic ones.
I'm 47 years old - just to give you a reference of my time line. When I was a teen ager, there were no computers and video games were in their infancy. We didn't have much pressure on us from school and for recreation we engaged in more social activities and sports. On the good side, there was very little pressure and stress ... on the bad side, I don't think we learned a whole lot scholastically - few did, many didn't. It didn't really matter because "on the job training" was the norm and so was life-time employment with one company.
This is all very different now. Now there is more emphasis on education and people change jobs often. There isn't much on the job training - people pretty much get thrown into the fray when they are hired.
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And how do you define spirituality for yourself?
Hmmm if I was to define it, I would liken it to a feeling of closeness and appreciation of nature. It would be that state of mind that finds joy in being in the moment and appreciating the beauty of life (in my case animal life). I tend to love animals more than people.
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I'm not much into seeking "wow" and disconnection from reality myself, but such conditions are very good for reflection, remembering things from the past, also reliving some experiences, understanding and defining new motives. And relaxation/recreation of course. I believe in pragmatic spirituality ;)
What do you mean by pragmatic spirituality?
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So far I've found AVS Delta sessions, when they work, work like that - first
loss of awareness around, then some short period of sleep, then there is this condition where you regain consciousness, but feel
loss of control over body/mind, feeling awake yet unable to move or think properly. During that condition there is a strong urge to snap out of it, although it's better to resist it and let it pass naturally. Not sure what benefit is there to be had from such Delta conditions so far, think will need to work with them for quite a while to learn controlling them.
Well, Delta is most useful when you are sleeping. Delta, when we are sleeping is the state where the brain releases growth hormone and works to heal the body. Prominent delta in the waking state is usually associated with brain injury and dysfunction. One can not function properly during a waking state if their brain was to have dominant delta.
In using Delta during an AVS session, you will likely fall asleep. If you use it during the day time, it may space you out for a while because essentially, it's putting your brain to sleep.
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What is FM? Didn't hear that abbreviation before. I also catch myself zoning out during some activities requiring intense concentration from time to time, just enjoying staring blankly at space until i notice it and resume the task at hand - but i think that happens to all of us, no?
Sorry. It's Fibromyalgia. A condition that causes wide spread pain through out your body for no reason. It is associated with a sleep problem (beta waves interrupting delta and preventing the body from restorative sleep). It also comes with cognitive problems such as memory loss, difficulty in finding the right words or accessing information. It's not degenerative but there is no cure so it has to be managed.
Antidepressants (SSRIs and Tricyclic) help with the pain control because of the serotonin link. There are some other brain chemicals that are off as well - such as "Substance P" which also has to do with perception of pain and norepinephrine (which some antidepressants address). Medical research is finally doing more work in this area and there is more information available now as well as options for treatment.
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Ah, you are describing the perfect condition to be in at work/other daily activities, but what about free time, when you are not challenged with tasks requiring quick thinking on your feet?
That is the time to use the quiet mind, the time to take the dog for a walk in the woods and use a quiet awareness which allows you to notice interesting things in your surroundings but it's quiet in that your mind is not chattering about stuff. So this would be a good time for some Alpha.
Watching TV can be rather hypnotic and so this is the Theta time. No thought required just passive relaxation and entertainment. The same with reading a novel or listening to music.
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I actually find that exploring different states of mind and recognizing them in my free time helps to strengthen staying in beta/ concentration abilities. During the day such exploration would most likely get me unemployed :D
LOL . So what do you do for work?
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Interesting, aboriginal such as natives of some place? Sorry, I'm not a native English speaker so i don't understand this completely. :eusa_think:
Yes, mostly Native American and some Native Canadian. So what is your first language? Your English is fantastic BTW.
M.
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
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Like any skill we learn, at first it takes all of our energy and concentration and over time it becomes a natural (unconscious) ability.
Hmm yes, much like it...Perhaps the skill doesn't develop much further because such situations are not that frequent to practice it regularily i guess.
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Here, his character is situated in more modern times and circumstances. It gives a good example of the frame of mind to model.
Somewhat yes, but he still looks a bit like a person disconnected from reality with somewhat blank stare and jerky movements, they must've made the character do that for people to visually differentiate "spirituality"...don't think that it real life it's _that_ visible, no?
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True wisdom really does come with life experience. In our youth, we gather knowledge and work toward understanding.
I tend to agree that wisdom comes with age, with life experience but it will come in different flavors depending on efforts, thoughts and emotions spent in life attaining that wisdom. I think of wisdom is a form of refinement where some of the theories formed by mind at last get accepted by subconciousness and from that moment are used by it as additional filters when some decision is made.
But, for some people that wisdom has a negative character such as "life is faulty and so are all the people", and this wisdom helps that person to get through life, for some wisdom is "there is a being of good under every mask, you just need to get to it", and it works for other people. That said, perhaps there is universal wisdom that is non-subjective, at least some people who are into esoterics claim that it exists in a form of some "informational field of the planet", but none really explained how to tap into that source.
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Yes but the psychological aspect doesn't necessarily have to be in the form of therapy as one can learn these techniques from other sources.
Indeed, if learned and applied correctly, it will be just as good.
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This is all very different now. Now there is more emphasis on education and people change jobs often. There isn't much on the job training - people pretty much get thrown into the fray when they are hired.
I'm 28 right now, to share my time frame also.
Video-games and computers were just entering popularity when i was a teenager, and while a lot of followed them with great interest, a trend of preference for sports and social activities remained for other part. I guess this was defined by what people have had inborn tendencies to do, were good at, and enjoyed the most in the end. School of course gave (and gives) much more pressure now, but as a result many skip on it alltogether, growing up without any will to work or study. People at the age of 15 and up, the NEETS(Not in Employment, Education or Training) who life with their parents for as long as possible, their numbers are increasing very fast right now. I don't know how it was in 80's, was there such a tendency?
For those who try to keep up with time and study/ manage everything, there is another tendency - to time-manage everything, with time-management techniques, more and more popular. Also, rise of tendency in use of chemicals such as nootropes to help cope with ever increasing amount of information(alot of it not really relevant for anything but the process of managing/ earning money) mind has to stuff into itself. It allows people to get great success in life. It is the demandment of time, but for me it raises a question, where will society come if this tendency develops even further, where people execute work, recreation and everything else with precise timing and planning? With no time periods to stop this rat race and let the mind wander, reflect, what will happen to right side of the brain?
Also, tendency for majority of people past the age of 20 already develop "mature age" health problems such as kidney problems, immune system disorders, back and neck problems, urogenital system problems. Must be worsened ecology, or it was similar in the 80's too?
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Hmmm if I was to define it, I would liken it to a feeling of closeness and appreciation of nature. It would be that state of mind that finds joy in being in the moment and appreciating the beauty of life (in my case animal life). I tend to love animals more than people.
Aha, and dogs also more than cats (judging by your avatar here)? Or both do you like both equally? :)
As for animals over humans, people are animals too :). Well, it's hard for humans to live together, that i agree with. I however think that it's not completely indidivual human's fault that we have to wear masks to survive and animals don't, it's the system that ever tries to control everyone and subliminally bars people from realising that they don't need to consume like madmen and life some kind of predefined by media lifestyle to be happy, shifting perception of happiness and making us all concentrate on the wrong things. In the end, inside most non-mentally disordered people want the same positive things, just the masks we have to wear not to fall out of society and survive stop us from sharing them. Well, IMHO :)
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What do you mean by pragmatic spirituality?
For some, being spiritual means accepting some religion and going to church, for some, it means trying to find enlightment through meditation, but i think that trying to see inner world helps you to influence outer. With mastering emotions and trying to get in touch with the flow of life, one does not have to stay put from work, study and other daily routine activities. It's just not forgetting about that there is always more to world than material objects during daily life, and this knowledge empowers you to made wiser (and often more effective) decisions and attain greater results at usual life. So in short, for me pragmatic spirituality is during the study of the inner world conncentrating on studying the tecnhiques of self-development that give me achievable actual results in "material" life, but also move by small steps to bigger understanding of unseen aspects of life also.
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Well, Delta is most useful when you are sleeping. Delta, when we are sleeping is the state where the brain releases growth hormone and works to heal the body. Prominent delta in the waking state is usually associated with brain injury and dysfunction. One can not function properly during a waking state if their brain was to have dominant delta.
In using Delta during an AVS session, you will likely fall asleep. If you use it during the day time, it may space you out for a while because essentially, it's putting your brain to sleep.
So do you think it's possible to control that condition? There are people who try to achieve "lucid dreams", "sleep awareness", are those Delta brain conditions under control, or something else?
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Medical research is finally doing more work in this area and there is more information available now as well as options for treatment.
Ah, so it's nervous system giving false alarm of pain where they are not actually needed? Hmm, i again recall the Open Focus Tecnhique mentioned by Craig as an answer to my first post in this thread, i'm studying that tecnhique now and it also adresses the control over pain by increased awareness, so the mind does not concentrate on the pain but only feels it as one of the parts of actual wide awareness, thus greatly reducing its effect. Can you share the information if you did something similar, or how did you manange overcome this problem, if you have no problem with Beta/Alpha right now?
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That is the time to use the quiet mind, the time to take the dog for a walk in the woods and use a quiet awareness which allows you to notice interesting things in your surroundings but it's quiet in that your mind is not chattering about stuff. So this would be a good time for some Alpha.
:icon_thumleft:, don't have a dog since it would be hard to take care of it with current lifestyle, but walking in woods is a great way to naturally shift mind indeed.
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Watching TV can be rather hypnotic and so this is the Theta time. No thought required just passive relaxation and entertainment. The same with reading a novel or listening to music.
Hmm, is there a way to differentiate Alpha and Theta however, without biofeedback devices? I think i'll get one eventually, but probably will wait for the one compatible with Procyon.
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LOL . So what do you do for work?
Computer programming, sometimes I wouldn't want to look in the morning at what i wrote at night in Theta condition :D.
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Yes, mostly Native American and some Native Canadian. So what is your first language? Your English is fantastic BTW.
Ah, so their "planeswalkers" should be related to shamanism in some way?
My first language is Russian, and thanks - it was pretty easy for me to learn English because the English speaking part of Internet exists longer, and because of that has more information and interesting people to have conversations with :).
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
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Originally Posted by
Planeswalker
Hmm yes, much like it...Perhaps the skill doesn't develop much further because such situations are not that frequent to practice it regularly i guess.
No, I think it's more like life keeps upping the ante and challenging us with a new variation on that skill. It reminds me of dog behavior rehabilitation. I may learn a new technique on how to deal with my dog in one particular situation but then she goes and does something different and what I just learned no longer applies.
Which is why I feel that our "education" is a life long endeavor and while we may become more skilled and capable of handling things better (including our attitude) we will never lack for challenges and tests of our skill. An "enlightened" way of being is attitude + skill. For some it's just belief - they believe they are enlightened but you only have to look at how their life is going to determine just how enlightened they are. Usually the ones that only believe they are enlightened - their personal lives are a mess and when investigated further, they are lack emotional and/or mental stability.
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Somewhat yes, but he still looks a bit like a person disconnected from reality with somewhat blank stare and jerky movements, they must've made the character do that for people to visually differentiate "spirituality"...don't think that it real life it's _that_ visible, no?
Hmmm I never noticed that when I watched the episodes. I did notice it in the first series but that was because he wasn't that good of an actor then. He had become a better actor by the time "the journey continues" series came around.
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I tend to agree that wisdom comes with age, with life experience but it will come in different flavors depending on efforts, thoughts and emotions spent in life attaining that wisdom. I think of wisdom is a form of refinement where some of the theories formed by mind at last get accepted by subconsciousness and from that moment are used by it as additional filters when some decision is made.
Whether something is "wise" or not is determined by the perception of the person deciphering the act or words. Where some people think that the bible contains wisdom, others think it does not. So I agree that there are many flavors of wisdom. I'm not sure if there is such a thing as universal wisdom ... perhaps some common sense things like ...don't play in traffic or walk in the jungle at night - could be considered pieces of universal wisdom.
How we determine whether something is "wise" or not depends upon our current knowledge of the subject in question, our beliefs associated with that subject, our emotional state at the moment. These things form our perception and something like wisdom is perceived.
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But, for some people that wisdom has a negative character such as "life is faulty and so are all the people", and this wisdom helps that person to get through life, for some wisdom is "there is a being of good under every mask, you just need to get to it", and it works for other people. That said, perhaps there is universal wisdom that is non-subjective, at least some people who are into esoterica claim that it exists in a form of some "informational field of the planet", but none really explained how to tap into that source.
I would say that this has more to do with beliefs than wisdom. A person can have a belief that "life is faulty and so are all people". They have formed this belief as a result of their experience, mood, and their knowledge and understanding of humanity (at it's worst).
Perceptual changes such as looking at the positive are choices we can make but first we have to know that there is a choice. Knowing that there is a choice and using that knowledge is wisdom applied.
I don't think that wisdom can have a negative outcome because that would be a contradiction of the term "wise".
Re: Informational field of the planet.
Ya ... I'd put that one in with my dog has telepathy and my plants are sentient. ;)
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I'm 28 right now, to share my time frame also.
Video-games and computers were just entering popularity when i was a teenager, and while a lot of followed them with great interest, a trend of preference for sports and social activities remained for other part. I guess this was defined by what people have had inborn tendencies to do, were good at, and enjoyed the most in the end. School of course gave (and gives) much more pressure now, but as a result many skip on it altogether, growing up without any will to work or study. People at the age of 15 and up, the NEETS(Not in Employment, Education or Training) who life with their parents for as long as possible, their numbers are increasing very fast right now. I don't know how it was in 80's, was there such a tendency?
Well we also have cultural differences to look at as well. I think the "cold war" was still going on in the 80s and we were looking at Russians as being the current "bad guys" - at least Hollywood was still casting them that way. Also at that time, I also think that communism was strong and going well in Russia. I live in Canada but culturally we are a like a mix between the UK and the US.
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For those who try to keep up with time and study/ manage everything, there is another tendency - to time-manage everything, with time-management techniques, more and more popular. Also, rise of tendency in use of chemicals such as nootropes to help cope with ever increasing amount of information(alot of it not really relevant for anything but the process of managing/ earning money) mind has to stuff into itself. It allows people to get great success in life. It is the demandment of time, but for me it raises a question, where will society come if this tendency develops even further, where people execute work, recreation and everything else with precise timing and planning? With no time periods to stop this rat race and let the mind wander, reflect, what will happen to right side of the brain?
I think to answer that question, we can look to Japan where there have been cases of workers dying because they push their bodies too far. If we do not get enough sleep, our body begins to break down. If we do not relieve stress, our body begins to break down. So physically and mentally we all have our limits and if pushed beyond those, we will die.
Things can get to a breaking point but then they go back the other way. I've seen some interesting cycles of behavior in various generations. The latest was the "me" generation which had a lot to do with greed. The collapse of the world's economies were a result. In addition, the arrest of corrupt corporate leaders and fraudsters has also resulted. Pollution and the threat of loss of natural resources is also another result. I can see better, healthier changes resulting. As for mental and physical health ... it will be interesting to see what happens with the U.S. and universal health care.
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Also, tendency for majority of people past the age of 20 already develop "mature age" health problems such as kidney problems, immune system disorders, back and neck problems, urogenital system problems. Must be worsened ecology, or it was similar in the 80's too?
This has a lot to do with stress and diet. I think that people are eating more processed food and garbage, which doesn't help with health either. There seems to be a bit more awareness now about nutrition and knowledge about mental and brain health is also beginning to grow.
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Aha, and dogs also more than cats (judging by your avatar here)? Or both do you like both equally? :)
I'd rather have a dog than a cat. My favorite animal is probably birds. I do like cats but I like them about the same as any other animal. I like the big cats like cheetahs, leopards and panthers more than house cats ... though I wouldn't want to own one.
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As for animals over humans, people are animals too :).
Some, more so than others. ;)
continued on next post.
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
part two
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For some, being spiritual means accepting some religion and going to church, for some, it means trying to find enlightment through meditation, but i think that trying to see inner world helps you to influence outer.
I agree.
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With mastering emotions and trying to get in touch with the flow of life, one does not have to stay put from work, study and other daily routine activities. It's just not forgetting about that there is always more to world than material objects during daily life, and this knowledge empowers you to made wiser (and often more effective) decisions and attain greater results at usual life. So in short, for me pragmatic spirituality is during the study of the inner world conncentrating on studying the techniques of self-development that give me achievable actual results in "material" life, but also move by small steps to bigger understanding of unseen aspects of life also.
I agree
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So do you think it's possible to control that condition? There are people who try to achieve "lucid dreams", "sleep awareness", are those Delta brain conditions under control, or something else?
Typically one does not dream in a delta state. Dreams occur in the more lighter stages of sleep such as alpha, high theta. Yes, one can learn to do lucid dreaming. It does depend on how deep of a sleeper the person is. The deeper the sleeper, the more difficult lucid dreaming is. The key is to become aware that you are dreaming while you are dreaming. It's tricky. I can do it some times and to some degree. What I seem to have better luck at doing while I'm asleep is replaying a portion of a dream with a different outcome or sometimes I analyze the dream while it's happening but I'm not able to change what happens in the dream.
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Ah, so it's nervous system giving false alarm of pain where they are not actually needed?
That's one outcome.
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Hmm, i again recall the Open Focus Tecnhique mentioned by Craig as an answer to my first post in this thread, I'm studying that technique now and it also addresses the control over pain by increased awareness, so the mind does not concentrate on the pain but only feels it as one of the parts of actual wide awareness, thus greatly reducing its effect. Can you share the information if you did something similar, or how did you manage overcome this problem, if you have no problem with Beta/Alpha right now?
There are hypnotic techniques that can help with pain control but one has to be careful because pain isn't always a bad thing. Pain tells us there is an injury and often prevents us from further damaging ourselves. Fibro pain - isn't the result of thinking, it's more of a result of chemical imbalance. What we can do with AVS (and other techniques) is learn to "forget" about the pain for a time which has to do with distraction and focus. The more you focus on pain, the worse it gets.
I believe in a combination of drugs and mind. When I say drugs, at the moment I'm not talking about narcotics such as opiates. They do have their use but they also come with other problems - which I won't get into at the moment.
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, don't have a dog since it would be hard to take care of it with current lifestyle, but walking in woods is a great way to naturally shift mind indeed.
I have a beautiful Belgian Tervuren (as you can see from my picture). She's a fantastic companion. I also have a Raven, two starlings, 3 aquatic frogs, a 50 gal fish tank and a bunch of pigeons (they live outside). I do some volunteer work for a wildlife rehabilitation place which is how I ended up with some of the birds.
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Hmm, is there a way to differentiate Alpha and Theta however, without biofeedback devices? I think I'll get one eventually, but probably will wait for the one compatible with Procyon.
Alpha usually presents itself when your eyes are closed. It is associated with feeling positive and creativity. Theta is more of a feeling of trance and inner focus. Theta is a deeper state than Alpha and is also associated with hypnosis and light sleep.
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Ah, so their "planeswalkers" should be related to shamanism in some way?
Yes.
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
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No, I think it's more like life keeps upping the ante and challenging us with a new variation on that skill. It reminds me of dog behavior rehabilitation. I may learn a new technique on how to deal with my dog in one particular situation but then she goes and does something different and what I just learned no longer applies.
Aha, that's an interesting analogy :)
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Which is why I feel that our "education" is a life long endeavor and while we may become more skilled and capable of handling things better (including our attitude) we will never lack for challenges and tests of our skill. An "enlightened" way of being is attitude + skill. For some it's just belief - they believe they are enlightened but you only have to look at how their life is going to determine just how enlightened they are. Usually the ones that only believe they are enlightened - their personal lives are a mess and when investigated further, they are lack emotional and/or mental stability.
I think so too, first thing i try to do when i see some book or video, is learn about the author's biography, if he/she actually uses the methods described and if they gave some result reflected onto one's life.
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Hmmm I never noticed that when I watched the episodes. I did notice it in the first series but that was because he wasn't that good of an actor then. He had become a better actor by the time "the journey continues" series came around.
Perhaps i will be able to tell more if i find the time to watch it, seems interesting :)
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I'm not sure if there is such a thing as universal wisdom ... perhaps some common sense things like ...don't play in traffic or walk in the jungle at night - could be considered pieces of universal wisdom.
How we determine whether something is "wise" or not depends upon our current knowledge of the subject in question, our beliefs associated with that subject, our emotional state at the moment. These things form our perception and something like wisdom is perceived.
Yes, that's why i think that wisdom is quite subjective to culture/person
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I would say that this has more to do with beliefs than wisdom. A person can have a belief that "life is faulty and so are all people". They have formed this belief as a result of their experience, mood, and their knowledge and understanding of humanity (at it's worst).
Perceptual changes such as looking at the positive are choices we can make but first we have to know that there is a choice. Knowing that there is a choice and using that knowledge is wisdom applied.
I don't think that wisdom can have a negative outcome because that would be a contradiction of the term "wise".
Hmm, agreed here, it would be better to call the negative perception that moves person through his life, helping him but at the same time harming his happiness with some other term.
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Re: Informational field of the planet.
Ya ... I'd put that one in with my dog has telepathy and my plants are sentient. ;)
:thumbsup:
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Well we also have cultural differences to look at as well. I think the "cold war" was still going on in the 80s and we were looking at Russians as being the current "bad guys" - at least Hollywood was still casting them that way. Also at that time, I also think that communism was strong and going well in Russia. I live in Canada but culturally we are a like a mix between the UK and the US.
Aha, the cold war, it still rages on, but it's for the politics, not the people :)
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Things can get to a breaking point but then they go back the other way. I've seen some interesting cycles of behavior in various generations. The latest was the "me" generation which had a lot to do with greed. The collapse of the world's economies were a result. In addition, the arrest of corrupt corporate leaders and fraudsters has also resulted. Pollution and the threat of loss of natural resources is also another result. I can see better, healthier changes resulting. As for mental and physical health ... it will be interesting to see what happens with the U.S. and universal health care.
Oh, greed is still in charge all the way in this generation, but for me it's interesting how the latter economical downturn has made a lot of people to stop and reflect on the goals of their life, that may give a great positive effect in the long run i think.
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This has a lot to do with stress and diet. I think that people are eating more processed food and garbage, which doesn't help with health either. There seems to be a bit more awareness now about nutrition and knowledge about mental and brain health is also beginning to grow.
There is such a tendency here too, but with the speed of life ever increasing there won't be time to apply the knowledge =)
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I'd rather have a dog than a cat. My favorite animal is probably birds. I do like cats but I like them about the same as any other animal. I like the big cats like cheetahs, leopards and panthers more than house cats ... though I wouldn't want to own one.
Dogs are more positive indeed, and house cat's are better patience trainers :)
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Typically one does not dream in a delta state. Dreams occur in the more lighter stages of sleep such as alpha, high theta. Yes, one can learn to do lucid dreaming. It does depend on how deep of a sleeper the person is. The deeper the sleeper, the more difficult lucid dreaming is. The key is to become aware that you are dreaming while you are dreaming. It's tricky. I can do it some times and to some degree. What I seem to have better luck at doing while I'm asleep is replaying a portion of a dream with a different outcome or sometimes I analyze the dream while it's happening but I'm not able to change what happens in the dream.
For me, most lucid dream experiences i had were during the times when my regular sleep pattern was distorted and i was sleeping during the day.
The interesting way i learned was trying to look at own hands at the moment you are partially aware during a dream, it somehow expands the awareness and you enter the more complete stage of lucid dream. What do you think about the influence of lucid dreaming on restorative role of sleep thought?
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I believe in a combination of drugs and mind. When I say drugs, at the moment I'm not talking about narcotics such as opiates. They do have their use but they also come with other problems - which I won't get into at the moment.
It's interesting how in English drugs and narcotics can mean the same thing =). But yes, the medicine is there for the reason, positive state of mind can give a good boost to the healing process, but not whole 100% of the process or replace medicine.
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I have a beautiful Belgian Tervuren (as you can see from my picture). She's a fantastic companion. I also have a Raven, two starlings, 3 aquatic frogs, a 50 gal fish tank and a bunch of pigeons (they live outside). I do some volunteer work for a wildlife rehabilitation place which is how I ended up with some of the birds.
Wow, you sure have it busy over there, great job :)
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Alpha usually presents itself when your eyes are closed. It is associated with feeling positive and creativity. Theta is more of a feeling of trance and inner focus. Theta is a deeper state than Alpha and is also associated with hypnosis and light sleep.
Hmm, and what would you call the state that humans feel at night when they are awake, a bit relaxed, a bit sleepy, but overally in a different thinking frame, even without focusing specially on it? Is it closer to Alpha or Theta?
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Ah, so their "planeswalkers" should be related to shamanism in some way?
Yes.
That is an interesting topic, I didn't focus on it much because I prefer techniques that focus on altering state using pure mind contentration rather than through rituals. But their enigmatic spirituality is inspiring :)
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
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Originally Posted by
Planeswalker
For me, most lucid dream experiences i had were during the times when my regular sleep pattern was distorted and i was sleeping during the day.
The interesting way i learned was trying to look at own hands at the moment you are partially aware during a dream, it somehow expands the awareness and you enter the more complete stage of lucid dream. What do you think about the influence of lucid dreaming on restorative role of sleep thought?
That makes sense because your sleep would likely be lighter during the day, which would make it easier to become aware during the dreams.
Looking at your hands ...hmmmm have you been reading Carlos Castenada by any chance?
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Hmm, and what would you call the state that humans feel at night when they are awake, a bit relaxed, a bit sleepy, but overally in a different thinking frame, even without focusing specially on it? Is it closer to Alpha or Theta?
Probably closer to Theta
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Re: Shamanism That is an interesting topic, I didn't focus on it much because I prefer techniques that focus on altering state using pure mind contentration rather than through rituals. But their enigmatic spirituality is inspiring :)
Ritual is another method of hypnotism. I like the Native American connection to nature and animals - probably more symbolically than anything else.
Using symbols, metaphor and/or ritual can be an easier way to experience an altered state of consciousness. There are many paths to choose from.
M.
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
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That makes sense because your sleep would likely be lighter during the day, which would make it easier to become aware during the dreams.
Looking at your hands ...hmmmm have you been reading Carlos Castenada by any chance?
Is it from his books? Actually i didn't read him, never got to it somehow.
The person who shared this technique with me probably read his whole bibliography though =).
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Probably closer to Theta
Interesting, nights are sometimes more productive than days (for me at least) for work requiring long timespans of concentration, the quality suffers of course, but it is easier to keep focus in Theta then than in Beta? Interesting.
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Ritual is another method of hypnotism. I like the Native American connection to nature and animals - probably more symbolically than anything else.
Using symbols, metaphor and/or ritual can be an easier way to experience an altered state of consciousness. There are many paths to choose from.
Actually, yes, before AVS i wasn't able to experience such deep levels of entrancement, and shamanic rituals with combinations flickering fire, dance, and drums/ tambourines are as audiovisual as it can get =).
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
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Originally Posted by
Planeswalker
Actually, yes, before AVS i wasn't able to experience such deep levels of entrancement, and shamanic rituals with combinations flickering fire, dance, and drums/ tambourines are as audiovisual as it can get =).
I wouldn't want to confuse the nature or virtues of AVS and ritual, but I too have found AVS more directly effective than ritual. I'm currently working on a series of AVS sessions based on dance/fire/drum/chant style ritual. Hopefully they'll be available soon.
Cheers,
Craig
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
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Originally Posted by
CraigT
I wouldn't want to confuse the nature or virtues of AVS and ritual, but I too have found AVS more directly effective than ritual. I'm currently working on a series of AVS sessions based on dance/fire/drum/chant style ritual. Hopefully they'll be available soon.
Cheers,
Craig
Sounds not half bad, are you working on Audiostrobe content?
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
Yes and no - sound and lights, but not using conventional AS encoding (AS compatible).
Cheers,
Craig
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Re: Expanded state of mind - should you strive to keep it throughout the the usual da
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Originally Posted by
CraigT
Yes and no - sound and lights, but not using conventional AS encoding (AS compatible).
Cheers,
Craig
Synchromuse, then? Or some kind of different know-how? =)
